out of proof shotgun regulations

[Robyray]

got an old side by side that a chap wants to give me and he says its out of proof,

 

what is the stance on this regarding ownership.

 

ps: if its in good condition I will have it sent for reproof.

 

Roby

 

 

[Old Boggy]

My understanding is that it's OK to give or receive but cannot be sold.

 

Obviously it is assumed that you have a current shotgun certificate.

 

I hope this advice is correct and apologise if not.

 

OB

[saddler]

My understanding is its illegal to pass on an out of proof gun.

Lots of such shotguns on auction listings, marked "RFD ONLY"

Edited April 9, 2017 by saddler

[JJsDad]

 

 

ps: if its in good condition I will have it sent for reproof.

 

Roby

 

 

 

If you have already been told its out of proof, it can hardly be described as "in good condition" !!

[Twistedsanity]

For how long are proof marks valid? I didn't realise they had an expiration date

[saddler]

For how long are proof marks valid? I didn't realise they had an expiration date

Not a Time-Expired thing.

More a wear & tear thing...the proof will give diameters when tested. Too far from the stamped size markings = out of proof

[Twistedsanity]

So is there an official guide as to how far out is to far or is rhis just open to interpretation?

[Dougy]

An out of proof gun can be resleved but whether it's worth the £400 ish cost is up to you, it may not add any cost at all. Just make a scrap piece of tubing into a usable tool.

It will all depend of course the value of the gun in the first place.

An put of proof Hatsan for example would be scrapped.

[Scully]

It is not an offence to own or use an unproved or out of proof gun; it is only an offence to sell one.

If the person who owns it writes 'given' or 'gifted' on your SGC then you have complied with the law.

[wymberley]

It is not an offence to own or use an unproved or out of proof gun; it is only an offence to sell one.

If the person who owns it writes 'given' or 'gifted' on your SGC then you have complied with the law.

Or offer for sale.

[Paul223]

It is not an offence to own or use an unproved or out of proof gun; it is only an offence to sell one.

If the person who owns it writes 'given' or 'gifted' on your SGC then you have complied with the law.

This

[Paul223]

For how long are proof marks valid? I didn't realise they had an expiration date

Along side the proof marks will be an internal barrel measurement, this measurement is usually taken about 9 inches from the breech, once this measurement is exceeded by IIRC 10 thou or more then the barrel is out of proof, also, and adding to this, there is a minimum barrel wall thickness to be adhered to too.

There are other factors too but these are the usual main culprits.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Paul223

[Twistedsanity]

I'm beginning to think there should be a written test when you first apply for your sgc. I had no idea about this or measuring chamber sizes for cartridges when using an old hammer gun

[Paul223]

Chamber sizes will be recorded on the proof marks, either by length or, on older guns, shot weight

[Robyray]

^{thank you lads.}

 

^{what I mean by good condition is the gun from my point of view has been very very well looked after, the action is tight, the bores /barrels are clean and pitting free, the auto safety and ejectors work, its just the fact that at some point he was told its out of proof,}

^{so thank you to the persons who replied with a useful comments and helpful facts}

 

^Roby

[Paul223]

^{thank you lads.}

 

^{what I mean by good condition is the gun from my point of view has been very very well looked after, the action is tight, the bores /barrels are clean and pitting free, the auto safety and ejectors work, its just the fact that at some point he was told its out of proof,}

^{so thank you to the persons who replied with a useful comments and helpful facts}

 

^Roby

You'd have to get it measured/ assessed to know for sure, unfortunately there are some unscrupulous folk who would say the gun is out of proof in the hope the owner hands it in!

[welshwarrior]

Do yourself a favour take it to a gunsmith they will check it over for you tell you if it's out of proof and possibly more importantly if the walls are thick enough to pass reproof and what work is needed

for reproof. Or if it needs sleeveing etc.

[fortune]

My grandfather had an old back action, underlever 16 bore hammer gun that he used to Very good effect. The Damascus barrels that were originally black proofed were so thin at the muzzle end that they could have been used for cutting out fibre wads. Although the barrels were originally black proofed he was using Eley Grand Prix nitro in it. I think that if the heart attack hadn't have got him the Eley Grand Prix and the Damascus would have. None of the old boys back years ago took much notice of stuff like this. A mate's uncle had a gun on the tractor and it fell off into the grass finger mower. The barrel got a bit mangled and there was a torn hole in one of the barrels​. The gun was taken into the local village garage and a bit of rod put up the barrel and the area was just beaten out level and the hole was brazed up. Worked a treat. The gun had a different sound when fired. The gun was of a good quality and eventually after about fifty years after the accident my mate decided to have the gun resleeved.looks nice but it doesn't shoot any better than before.

Edited April 9, 2017 by fortune

[Robyray]

thank you lads

 

ill have it checked out when I have got time and when I have it here in Andover,

 

roby

[Walker570]

^{thank you lads.}

 

^{what I mean by good condition is the gun from my point of view has been very very well looked after, the action is tight, the bores /barrels are clean and pitting free, the auto safety and ejectors work, its just the fact that at some point he was told its out of proof,}

^{so thank you to the persons who replied with a useful comments and helpful facts}

 

^Roby

Check the marks and age. It might just be black powder proofed. If so that would legally put it out of proof. I have an Army & Navy 16 gauge which when I acquired it was black powder proofed. My gunsmith gave it a 95% chance of passing proof, so he tightened it up and it passed with flying colours.

Sensible thing is to visit with a gunsmith of repute. I say this because I acquired mine after a Birmingham gunsmith had told a friend of mine that the gun was scrap and he would dispose of it for him. Sensibly he declined and passed it on to me. That was over 40yrs ago and I still give it an airing occasionally.

[CaptainBeaky]

AFAIK, black powder proof is still in proof - you just can't (shouldn't!) use nitro loads.

[fortune]

Check the marks and age. It might just be black powder proofed. If so that would legally put it out of proof.

That isn't correct if taken literally. If it is proofed for black powder and the physical structure and barrel wall thickness are not out of tolerance then it is proved for black powder. It isn't illegal to use it with suitable black powder loads. It's only when nitro loads push the structure of the gun and it is stressed beyond the limits of its manufacture that problems occur.

Edited April 9, 2017 by fortune

[Paul223]

That isn't correct if taken literally. If it is proofed for black powder and the physical structure and barrel wall thickness are not out of tolerance then it is proved for black powder. It isn't illegal to use it with suitable black powder loads. It's only when nitro loads push the structure of the gun and it is stressed beyond the limits of its manufacture that problems occur.

+1

[Vince Green]

Technically, there is no such thing in law as an out of proof shotgun, simply because as others have said there is no definition. A shotgun is a shotgun, it may not be proofed for modern cartridges but that does not render it out of proof.

 

It may have bulges or dents in which case you would be stupid to use it but out or proof?

 

As Walker570 says it is usually something dealers say to scare customers. A shotgun is in proof until it fails proof and then you don't get it back anyway.

 

But you have to use a bit of common sense about whether you want to shoot some of them. Many guns go loose, triggers wear out, that's not out of proof but it is clapped

Edited April 10, 2017 by Vince Green

[welshwarrior]

Technically, there is no such thing in law as an out of proof shotgun, simply because as others have said there is no definition. A shotgun is a shotgun, it may not be proofed for modern cartridges but that does not render it out of proof.

 

It may have bulges or dents in which case you would be stupid to use it but out or proof?

 

As Walker570 says it is usually something dealers say to scare customers. A shotgun is in proof until it fails proof and then you don't get it back anyway.

 

But you have to use a bit of common sense about whether you want to shoot some of them. Many guns go loose, triggers wear out, that's not out of proof but it is clapped

A gun is out of proof if the bores have worn 10 tho from the original proof measurement.

 

A loos or dented barrel may not be out of proof but is dangerous and may require proofing after repair.