21g or 24g for real pigeons?

[washerboy]

I have several boxes of 21g and 24g size 7.5 and 8

The question is would it be possible to use these on wood pigeon or do I stick to my 32g 5 and 6's .

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, i would be happy to use the 7.5 24g but max range 35.40 yrd other 21g 7.5 and 8s on clays

[lksopener]

Yep they will be fine, no problem at all.

[fortune]

Yeah no probs with them. If you put the lead on the target they'll do the job. If you don't put the lead on the target then they won't. It's quite simple ​really.

[washerboy]

Yeah no probs with them. If you put the lead on the target they'll do the job. If you don't put the lead on the target then they won't. It's quite simple ​really.

If it's as easy as that I would be a world better 😂😂😂

[Stonepark]

My 410 puts out 21g no7.5 and drops them fine to 35 yards or thereabouts.

[fortune]

If it's as easy as that I would be a world better

It's a bit like the old gag about>>> "how do I get to Carnegie hall"? Practice, practice, practice.

[Guest cookoff013]

why dont you try them and see for your self?

[washerboy]

why dont you try them and see for your self?

Mainly because I didn't want to start wounding birds if the cartridges weren't up to the job.

[Guest cookoff013]

Mainly because I didn't want to start wounding birds if the cartridges weren't up to the job.

 

there is no reason why you couldnt take both types of shell and see for yourself.

then you would have first hand account and the ability to switch the "adequate" shell.

 

what adequate means is open to interpretation. some guys just want to bring game down to the floor, or omobilise indefinate, other guys want "DRT" dead right there.

 

some want cheap.

[Ultrastu]

Im no expert on shells .but i dont go below 28 grm now .as ive tried the 24 grms and found my kill ratio whent right down .

But that could be for a lot of different reasons .

 

To my mind ,shot guns kill by hitting the bird many times with mutipul pellets .a single or a couple of pellets isnt gonna kill em .there just isnt the energy in the single pellet .

But hit em with 10 -15 pellets each carrying say 3 fpe .each and you stand a berter chance .

So the more lead you have in the air generally the better .

No doubt 24 grms will kill but it reduces your chances (everything else being equal .range, accuracy etc )

[Walker570]

I use 18grm Fiocchi 3 inch Italian 8s .. 7 1/4 UK ish for both partridge and pheasant and the occasional pigeon or crow and last season finished on 2.4 to 1 (my wife counts the miss shots and reminds me afterwards) so I would be happy to use those shells on woodpigeon. As said above , put 'em in the pattern.

 

Also shoot a lot of pigeon with my Remy 1100 16 gauge with standard Eley or Express loads.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Walker570

[fortune]

A few years ago I invited a friend who was prominently a clay shooter pigeon shooting and his shooting ability and kill power blew me away. He was using Maionchi 1-1/8 of #8 and dropping pigeons dead as dead at ranges that I wouldn't have shot. When Eley were about the only cartridge available they used to do all sorts of charts and data about cartridges and all sorts of stuff about the range and performance ect if I remember correctly it was reconed that a pigeon needs to be hit with a minimum of five pellets, each delivering a punch of 0.8lbs per square inch, to be reasonably sure of inflicting instant death.

[Walker570]

I remember those Maionchi shells. Shot a lot of those at clays many moons ago and they were the business.

[Stonepark]

A few years ago I invited a friend who was prominently a clay shooter pigeon shooting and his shooting ability and kill power blew me away. He was using Maionchi 1-1/8 of #8 and dropping pigeons dead as dead at ranges that I wouldn't have shot. When Eley were about the only cartridge available they used to do all sorts of charts and data about cartridges and all sorts of stuff about the range and performance ect if I remember correctly it was reconed that a pigeon needs to be hit with a minimum of five pellets, each delivering a punch of 0.8lbs per square inch, to be reasonably sure of inflicting instant death.

And this is why i reject light loads of big pellets i.e. 30g no5 for pigeon/crows.

 

For small game 400 pellets no7 in a cartridge are surprisingly effective beyond what traditionally is thought of their individual pellet effective range due to the cumulative number of strikes rather than relying on individual strikes from larger shot to do enough damage to immediately kill.

[neutron619]

For small game 400 pellets no7 in a cartridge are surprisingly effective beyond what traditionally is thought of their individual pellet effective range due to the cumulative number of strikes rather than relying on individual strikes from larger shot to do enough damage to immediately kill.

 

*Tin hat on.*

 

I've never tried it and I won't, but I've always been curious about what the effect of using half an ounce of #9 out of a .410 on small-to-medium game birds would be.

 

I suspect I'm not a good enough shot to make it a fair test - killing or wounding would be more down to my bad shooting than anything I could measure from the cartridge - but it's historically appropriate to the .410 and not without precedent according to various accounts I've read. Plenty of pellets in the cartridge, though I imagine a good number wouldn't end up in the pattern. Taxidermists used to use a lot of #9 shot (and smaller) at one time.

 

Personally I've found the "line" is somewhere between #7½ and #7 and 16-19g of shot. I suspect others who shoot better than I do manage with less. All this talk of 21g or 24g being "enough" or not is a bit of nonsense in my book.

 

That's not to say I don't shoot really big loads of #5's when I'm carrying a bigger pair of tubes, of course.

Edited May 31, 2017 by neutron619

[motty]

I have killed plenty of pigeons with an ounce of 9 shot. You just have to be sensible with it.

Edited May 31, 2017 by motty

[wymberley]

A few years ago I invited a friend who was prominently a clay shooter pigeon shooting and his shooting ability and kill power blew me away. He was using Maionchi 1-1/8 of #8 and dropping pigeons dead as dead at ranges that I wouldn't have shot. When Eley were about the only cartridge available they used to do all sorts of charts and data about cartridges and all sorts of stuff about the range and performance ect if I remember correctly it was reconed that a pigeon needs to be hit with a minimum of five pellets, each delivering a punch of 0.8lbs per square inch, to be reasonably sure of inflicting instant death.

Here is some of that info', provided by a member who still has a copy of the older Eley Diary:

 

 

The 5 pellet requirement suggested was usually taken as 3 and the 0.8 ft/lb as either that figure or (as in the case of Eley) 0.85. The 3 strike figure is the problem as it would be required on each and every shot to be effective and with a shotgun, therein lies the rub.

[JohnfromUK]

My view; 21g or 24g 7.5 or 8 would be fine with the right range limits. I'm not sure what this would be in actual figures, but 8 shot looses striking energy pretty quickly. I should think that you just need to give it a try, be sensible on range initially, and if all goes well and the opportunity arises experiment a bit and give us all some feedback! (I'm not suggesting lots of 'out of range' shots here, just push the range a bit if all goes well at moderate ranges)

[Dekers]

I have several boxes of 21g and 24g size 7.5 and 8

The question is would it be possible to use these on wood pigeon or do I stick to my 32g 5 and 6's .

 

Of course these will work if you put them in the right place, your .177 air rifle will knock a pigeon out of the sky if you put it in the right place....BUT PERSONALLY....I would be happier with a bigger pellet and probably a 28g load, probably my choice would be a 28g 6, a 32g 5 would also work well but a bit heavy all round for me. Everyone has an opinion as you can see from the replies.

 

But, back to the beginning, they will all work if you put them in the right place at the right distance!

[tomaddy525]

I mainly don't use clay cartridges over decoys because I prefer not to put too many shot in the bird if it is for the table, I would have no worries about clean kills. If they're going to the game dealer I'll use whatever clay cartridges i have until i run out then switch to the 32g 5

[Retsdon]

When in doubt about new cartridges/loads/shot size, etc, I always found benefit in getting some blank paper and recording the kind of shot patterns the gun throws with the new loads at various ranges. Leaving velocity ballistics aside for the moment, it gives a good idea of how many shot are, assuming you hold the gun straight, likely to find their mark in real life.

 

If from this experiment you can determine that you're throwing good, even patterns - then give the cartridges a go. If you're not killing cleanly then maybe terminal velocity ballistics are a factor and you need to up the shot size.

 

But at least you will actually know what you're putting out there. To my mind that's a big plus. If you know that your shot pattern is solid and what it looks like out to 40 odd yards, that's a big confidence booster. And like everyone knows, confidence is a really huge favtor in shooting well.

[washerboy]

I did trying them on clays but I can't decoy pigeons , crows etc as near as I can shoot clays .