Brexit - Merged Threads

[oowee]

1 hour ago, krugerandsmith said:

 

Dyson WHAT!      He closed down factories here making initialy 600 redundant.  Then opened up abroad for cheap labour in Eastern Europe and the Far East.

 

I remember conversations with him to try to keep manufacturing here. Lack of skills, too expensive and international tax benefits could not be offset with finance from the UK. 

We cannot compete with low wage economies like China on a level playing field. We have to have an edge, knowledge, distance, design, EU restrictions or whatever we can create on our own. 

 

[das]

On 14/12/2017 at 19:13, oowee said:

Surely Brexit means Brexit? We voted to leave and it looks probable that we will. We did not vote to cut trade and ties and links and all the other gubbins just to leave the EU. We will still be in Europe. 

I am no politician but my age of experience seems to tell me things about the current state of Brexit.
It may seem from the eurphoria of the cuurent round of talks that everything seems rosy and we look forward to progressing happily together.

In my opinion, it looks like we are going to get nothing but a bloody good shafting by the EU. It seems that we are sucking up to them and trying to impress
them into the bargain. What about the transitional 2 years where it appears to be business as usual, we still pay, we are still under the directve of the EU courts, migrants can still flood in,
etc, etc, etc.

Either do one of two things IMHO. Get the hell out PDQ or apologise to Herr Junkers and Co. and promise we won't be naughty again and will be a real good member
of the coming Federal States.

[12gauge82]

I along with the majority will take the first option please! You know the one we voted For!

[Aled]

2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I along with the majority will take the first option please! You know the one we voted For!

I hate to say this but I really don't think Brexit is going to happen they way you hoped it would. Net result neither the leave or the remain group get what they want. I'm being diplomatic here. (although immigration needs to be sorted to appease the masses imho as for a very large % it was why they voted leave)

Cheers

Aled

[bostonmick]

I for one will not waste the diesel or the time to vote in any future referendums.well and truly being stuffed.

[Granett]

1 hour ago, Aled said:

I hate to say this but I really don't think Brexit is going to happen they way you hoped it would. Net result neither the leave or the remain group get what they want. I'm being diplomatic here. (although immigration needs to be sorted to appease the masses imho as for a very large % it was why they voted leave)

Cheers

Aled

What do you mean? "Brexit, the way you hoped it would"? 

Brexiteers voted for unicorns. They're getting donkeys in dunces' hats and blaming other for not delivering pure fantasy. 

I don't think there's any need for apology. 

[Granett]

Pretty miserable Daily Mail article going for Stalinist-esque persecution on its front page. Not much of a surprise to see its dog whistle has generated the desired response and Brexiteer death threats have started coming in again... If I recall correctly, it's only Brexiteers that have issued these sort of death threats on the past,  and committed murder over this matter... 

Let's hope they don't do it again. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by Granett

[Gordon R]

The Sphinx has risen, supplying more non-facts, but precious few of the millions of soft Brexit quotes. No change, no change.

[Dave-G]

11 hours ago, Aled said:

I hate to say this but I really don't think Brexit is going to happen they way you hoped it would. Net result neither the leave or the remain group get what they want. I'm being diplomatic here. (although immigration needs to be sorted to appease the masses imho as for a very large % it was why they voted leave)

Cheers

Aled

I'm not sure immigration was the main issue for most brexiteers. My resentment about the EU is uncontrolled immigration, being ruled over by unellected dictators from different countries, and that we pay massive amounts of funds just for the right to trade with European countries.... while the country is so skint we have meagre access to doctors and absent police patrols etc. Not forgetting their protectionist smashing of our fishing rights for example.

 

Does anyone feel its OK to have ooh, lets say Africa, tell us what we can or cannot do or what hate preachers to let stay in our own country: Or pay Asda, for example, an annual payment just to shop there? 

Edited December 16, 2017 by Dave-G

[ShootingEgg]

23 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Not forgetting their protectionist smashing of our fishing rights for example

Watched a chanel 4 program all about the English chanel, the french fishing fleet can fish 6 miles off our coast and took 5000 euros of fish back in one 12hour trip then left for another straight away. One english boat £400 a month and isnt allowed out to the French sode!! Yeah lets love the EU...  Like the bloke said, the French have thousands of km of coast that they have raped. Now they are raping our waters. 

[12gauge82]

The only reason most want to stay in Europe is because it's the status quo and they're used to it, if we were given the option to join a monstrosity like the EU now, there'd be no way we'd do it, we were tricked into it in the first place as proven by the secret document, the first chance we've had a say and we voted to leave, the remainiacs need to dry their eyes and get on with it. We'll do the heavy lifting for the snowflakes who are to scared to come into the wide world and cut the apron strings that have tied us to the EU for too long, they'll thank us for it in the end, history will speak of the Brexiters courage and stories will be told for generations of how we saved the remoaners from themselves! 

[12gauge82]

12 hours ago, Aled said:

I hate to say this but I really don't think Brexit is going to happen they way you hoped it would. Net result neither the leave or the remain group get what they want. I'm being diplomatic here. (although immigration needs to be sorted to appease the masses imho as for a very large % it was why they voted leave)

Cheers

Aled

Yep, I already figured that out, but then I knew that the moment I cast my vote, democracy doesn't really exist, your vote is only really there to give the minions a sense of control and to stop civil unrest occurring.

If we really lived in a free society, giant corporations that pay next to no tax, pay a wage that cant be lived on and contribute next to nothing to society would not be allwed to exist.

[neutron619]

38 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

If we really lived in a free society, giant corporations that pay next to no tax, pay a wage that cant be lived on and contribute next to nothing to society would not be allwed to exist.

As someone concerned very much with freedom, I'd suggest that your comment is something of a contradiction in the terms.

In a free society, they would very much be allowed to exist, but we, as individuals, would have the freedom not to buy their goods.

The reason that big corporations pay little to no tax is because of the tax system itself. Every time that a chancellor (any of them) writes a new law saying "XYZ group will face an additional tax of 5% of whatever", the corporations don't protest about the tax - they just find a way to make sure they aren't in "XYZ" group via clever, legal means.

Saying "everyone pays 30% of income" as your only tax law is rather harder to argue with or work around. 

[12gauge82]

3 minutes ago, neutron619 said:

As someone concerned very much with freedom, I'd suggest that your comment is something of a contradiction in the terms.

In a free society, they would very much be allowed to exist, but we, as individuals, would have the freedom not to buy their goods.

The reason that big corporations pay little to no tax is because of the tax system itself. Every time that a chancellor (any of them) writes a new law saying "XYZ group will face an additional tax of 5% of whatever", the corporations don't protest about the tax - they just find a way to make sure they aren't in "XYZ" group via clever, legal means.

Saying "everyone pays 30% of income" as your only tax law is rather harder to argue with or work around. 

Yes quite, the problem is the system is rigged by those in power to ensure that type of thing continues, very little is ever done for the good of the working man when it comes to money.

[12gauge82]

11 hours ago, Granett said:

Pretty miserable Daily Mail article going for Stalinist-esque persecution on its front page. Not much of a surprise to see its dog whistle has generated the desired response and Brexiteer death threats have started coming in again... If I recall correctly, it's only Brexiteers that have issued these sort of death threats on the past,  and committed murder over this matter... 

Let's hope they don't do it again. 

Quite the opposite, take a read of this, you just don't see the death threat against farage mentioned in main stream media very often but he is probably one of the most targeted politicians in recent times, I beleive he's even had his brake lines cut whilst in Germany.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5184815/Nigel-Farage-reveals-price-paid-Brexit.html

[Granett]

19 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Quite the opposite, take a read of this, you just don't see the death threat against farage mentioned in main stream media very often but he is probably one of the most targeted politicians in recent times, I beleive he's even had his brake lines cut whilst in Germany.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5184815/Nigel-Farage-reveals-price-paid-Brexit.html

Lol. A puff-piece in the Mail about Farage in the days after the death threats against the MPs. 

And it's swallowed hook line and sinker by those who claim to be immune to manipulation by the media. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by Granett

[12gauge82]

5 minutes ago, Granett said:

Lol. A puff-piece in the Mail about Farage in the days after the death threats against the MPs. 

And it's swallowed hook line and some nerve by those who claim to be immune to manipulation by the media. 

I'm not taking away from Jo cox's murder in any way, shape or form, that was absaloutly disgusting and the racist, murdering scum should hang for it in my view, but to say as a blanket one side is worse than the other is silly, it goes on, on both sides and anyone who targets individuals with viloence over politics needs removing from society asap regardless what side of the debate.

Edited December 16, 2017 by 12gauge82
Spelling

[Gordon R]

Granett - any chance of those many millions of quotes from Brexiteers?

[yod dropper]

4 hours ago, Gordon R said:

The Sphinx has risen, supplying more non-facts, but precious few of the millions of soft Brexit quotes. No change, no change.

Indeed, incapable of putting together a cogent argument like some of the Remainers and it seems is here to just wind people up.  I remember the pathetic continued posts and insistence about Mr. Farage being a German.  Honestly.

'The Sphinx'.  There is fitting wordplay to be had in your sobriquet.

[Rewulf]

I found this amusing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/world/europe/britain-european-union-farming-immigration-labor-shortage.html

Apparently, if foreign  workers get a better job offer in the UK on the way to Scotland, thats down to Brexit !
Sounds a bit weird how the NY times finds this relevant anyway, and do blueberries grow this time of year ?
This and many other mysteries within 

[Granett]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Granett - any chance of those many millions of quotes from Brexiteers?

You threw your toys out of the pram and said you weren't going to talk to me. What happened? We could write that promise on the side of a bus, perhaps. 

I've posted some quotes before but they went over the heads of people here. I presume you're referring to those in order to try and resurrect the flawed counter-argument that was made before.

1 hour ago, yod dropper said:

Indeed, incapable of putting together a cogent argument like some of the Remainers and it seems is here to just wind people up.  I remember the pathetic continued posts and insistence about Mr. Farage being a German.  Honestly.

'The Sphinx'.  There is fitting wordplay to be had in your sobriquet.

It is hilarious how quickly the arguments run out and the ad hominems come out. 

[12gauge82]

The bus argument is another peice of flawed fake news, the bus said, "we send the EU 350 million a week, let's fund the NHS instead" which is technically true, the whole truth would read,

"we send the EU 350 million a week, we get 100 million of that back in a rebate negotiated by Margaret Thatcher, which leaves us paying a net amount of 250 million a week, let's fund our NHS instead".

That wouldn't have quiet the same ring to it on the side of a bus though so I don't think it was too far off, it's certainly been blown out of all proportion by the remain side and compared to the ridiculous predictions of doom and gloom and lies told by the remain side before the vote, pales into insignificance.

 

Edited December 16, 2017 by 12gauge82

[neutron619]

1 hour ago, Granett said:

It is hilarious how quickly the arguments run out and the ad hominems come out. 

*Hat Tip*

I can only observe that you don't sound terribly amused.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

59 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

The bus argument is another peice of flawed fake news, the bus said, "we send the EU 350 million a week, let's fund the NHS instead" which is technically true, the whole truth would read,

"we send the EU 350 million a week, we get 100 million of that back in a rebate negotiated by Margaret Thatcher, which leaves us paying a net amount of 250 million a week, let's fund our NHS instead".

That wouldn't have quiet the same ring to it on the side of a bus though so I don't think it was too far off, it's certainly been blown out of all proportion by the remain side and compared to the ridiculous predictions of doom and gloom and lies told by the remain side before the vote, pales into insignificance.

 

That would have needed one of Red Ken's Bendy Buses, but Boris got rid of them!

[12gauge82]

Yes quiet