Eyefor Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 From the BBC Quote The Spanish prime minister has outlined plans to remove Catalonia's leaders and take control of the separatist region. Speaking after an emergency cabinet meeting on Saturday, Mariano Rajoy stopped short of dissolving the region's parliament but put forward plans for elections in the region. ..... Assuming the participation of all parties, voters would be bound to interpret the election as a de facto vote on independence. If a separatist majority emerged once again, it is hard to see how the conflict could be considered closed. Unquote I'd been wondering where our "Dave" had got to. Maybe the Spanish Government employed him as a referendum adviser? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 i think this might get real nasty............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 i think this might get real nasty............... Indeed, I think things could well turn very nasty- have many friends living in the region who are a tad nervous. But, if it does work can we do the same to wee jimmy Krankie Just kidding mr Scotsman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 And a deafening silence from the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 It would have been a lot easier to just let them have a vote. We did with Scotland. I can't see why the Spanish government have to be so aggressive about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 It would have been a lot easier to just let them have a vote. We did with Scotland. I can't see why the Spanish government have to be so aggressive about it. Spain would loose 25% of its GDP.........if they let it go............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Indeed there is trouble ahead for the Spanish government. Separatists have caused great problems for the country in the past and may do so again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 And a deafening silence from the EU. This, EU and human rights when it suits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 And a deafening silence from the EU. I wonder if the same "deafening silence" would have been applied to the UK if we had used the same tactics towards the Scottish Referendum.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Why is EU mentioned every time something occurs? It’s a region within a Country that held a referendum ( albeit an unofficial one) who states their wish to become independent- surely this is a matter for the Spanish Government to decide I get the feeling, as with most ‘off topic’ postings, that some have a very perverse hatred of the EU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 A hatred of the EU is not perverse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 (edited) Why is EU mentioned every time something occurs? It’s a region within a Country that held a referendum ( albeit an unofficial one) who states their wish to become independent- surely this is a matter for the Spanish Government to decide I get the feeling, as with most ‘off topic’ postings, that some have a very perverse hatred of the EU Perhaps they are referring to the fact 800 people were injured by a very aggressive police force during the referendum. Whether the referendum was legal or not I don't think the Spanish police covered themselves in glory. If any other nations police force was that violent to people at voting booths I am pretty sure the EU would have condemned it. Edited October 21, 2017 by Laird Lugton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 A hatred of the EU is not perverse! No it's rational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead eye alan Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 No it's rational. And deserved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 No it's rational. Spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Perhaps they are referring to the fact 800 people were injured by a very aggressive police force during the referendum. Whether the referendum was legal or not I don't think the Spanish police covered themselves in glory. If any other nations police force was that violent to people at voting booths I am pretty sure the EU would have condemned it. Heavy handed or not, they were not at voting booths put in place for a legal ‘vote’ but some makeshift ballot boxes- can anyone but the organisers of these condone an illegal vote. Did the EU ever cast opinion on Police action in the UK such as during the 2011 London Riots, minors strikes etc? Nope, thought not. This, EU and human rights when it suits You don’t like it when they ‘meddle’ and now your moaning because they are not ‘meddling’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Seriously Jaymo? They deploy riot police, tear gas and beat old ladies up to stop a referendum, because it's 'unofficial' listen to yourself. Any other time the EU is straight on the case if anyone puts a banana out of place! Yet they have no comments on this? No human rights issue to put the full weight of the ECHR onto, not any investigation? Wonder why that could be? And to clarify, yes I hate the EU, what it's trying to do by stealth and the horrific end result of its ideals. And I'll do anything I can to stop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) Heavy handed or not, they were not at voting booths put in place for a legal vote but some makeshift ballot boxes- can anyone but the organisers of these condone an illegal vote. Did the EU ever cast opinion on Police action in the UK such as during the 2011 London Riots, minors strikes etc? Nope, thought not. You dont like it when they meddle and now your moaning because they are not meddling??? You can't compare the London riots with a peaceful vote, legal or otherwise. It's the hypocrisy and double standards, just goes to show the EU in its true form is not really interested in human rights and is a power mad dictator. Edited October 22, 2017 by 12gauge82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Heavy handed or not, they were not at voting booths put in place for a legal ‘vote’ but some makeshift ballot boxes- can anyone but the organisers of these condone an illegal vote. Did the EU ever cast opinion on Police action in the UK such as during the 2011 London Riots, minors strikes etc? Nope, thought not. You don’t like it when they ‘meddle’ and now your moaning because they are not ‘meddling’ If the vote wasn't legal then why did Spain bother to send in the Police, why not just let the vote go ahead peacefully and ignore the outcome? The way I heard it reported was that if a certain amount of people turned out to vote then it became a legal vote and Spain's government would have to consider the split. As for the EU, how can they ignore this blatant disregard for democracy. Oh wait they're undemocratic themselves that's how! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) If the vote wasn't legal then why did Spain bother to send in the Police, why not just let the vote go ahead peacefully and ignore the outcome? This. The SNP were considering a second referendum due to the circumstances of brexit. They shied away from an unofficial one as all the unionists (like me) would have refused to partake thereby making a mockery of it. It would have had no legitimacy and the Westminster government could have just ignored it as it would not have been the "settled will of the people". That's all Rajoy had to do, instead he sent riot police in against peaceful voters (legal or not legal) and the EU said nothing. All he's done is make the situation worse. Jaime, to compare the London riots with Barcelona is not comparing apples with apples. Riot police were sent into London to stop violent anarchy, the Barcelona vote could have been allowed to proceed and then Madrid could have just voided the vote. Edited October 22, 2017 by Laird Lugton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 (edited) Would that be the old lady who changed her story a few days later? We all know the media will portray whatever sells papers or makes headlines. Would the routing and anarchy that was seen on the streets with various missiles etc being thrown different to the rioting on the streets of London Seems facts are often overlooked/ manipulated, to prove ones point Oh, I might have misread one of the above quotes that said that due to the numbers that turned out then the vote suddenly became legal! Thats good to know as a group of us are planning to cast our vote to make every Friday free beer night , so Im assuming that if enough of us vote it will become Legal Edited October 22, 2017 by Jaymo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Perhaps they are referring to the fact 800 people were injured by a very aggressive police force during the referendum. Whether the referendum was legal or not I don't think the Spanish police covered themselves in glory. If any other nations police force was that violent to people at voting booths I am pretty sure the EU would have condemned it. I'm pretty sure they wouldnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munzy Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 A lot of the posts on here are in good faith but lack the understanding of Spanish temperament given the last hundred years of Spain's history. If Rajoy let the vote go ahead and just declared the result illegal and refused to listen the pro-Independence Catalans would begin the breakaway regardless. If, instead, Rajoy heavy-handedly stopped the vote sending it underground the results become unsafe and Madrid can claim it doesn't necessarily reflect the will of Cataluña. Given the second scenario, which is pretty much what happened, lots of anti-independence Catalans will side with pro-independence Catalans in their stance against an oppressive Madrid. Rajoy could never have won this battle, he was doomed to fail however he handled it. Pro-independent Catalans are in breach of the very treaty that gave them legal autonomy in the first place, they are reneging on the deal. Rajoy will use 155 to take back control of many aspects of Catalan life, Catalans (both pro and anti independence) will march, marches will turn bloody, someone will be killed, fires will start and the still raw wounds from Franco's dictatorship will be flung open. Thousands of families still have loved ones buried in roadside ditches unable to recover them because of the post-war agreements to forget and not talk about the war. Since Franco's death Spain has been in silence about the atrocities on both sides, very little healing has taken place and this could very easily reignite civil war. This scenario is so much more volatile than most people understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 interesting...............didnt realise that there was so much Franco stuff flying about still................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted October 22, 2017 Report Share Posted October 22, 2017 Am I the only person who thinks "so what"? It's Spain not Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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