del.gue Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 11 hours ago, wingnut said: If It wasn't for these people i could possibly have been dead on Sunday, God bless them, and all the amazing hospital doctors, nurses, consultants etc Derby Royal Infirmary glad you were all there when i needed you. Totally unexpected heart attack, which if it wasn't for the speed of the paramedics and the great skills and expertise of ALL NHS Staff i probably wouldn't be upright, above ground and breathing today. God bless all of them, These people are absolutely amazing, and don't get the respect that they deserve. I wish a speedy recovery. I had cause to be admitted to the same a+e last november after my heart rate went through the roof. Brilliant staff and care... mine turned out to be a reaction to coffee that messed up my nervous system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut Posted February 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Westward said: I remain utterly mystified that the bulk of the population people don't consider their health and well being until something like a heart attack knocks them over. If everyone paid even a small amount of attention to their weight, diet, exercise etc the NHS would half the size and awash with money. Seems i didn't put a small piece of punctuation in the right area, a comma after i should inform my insurance, because i had already to started looking after myself prior to the problem occurring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strimmer_13 Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 what I actually think he means is 'get well soon and take it easy'?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 10 hours ago, wingnut said: Seems i didn't put a small piece of punctuation in the right area, a comma after i should inform my insurance, because i had already to started looking after myself prior to the problem occurring Okay fair enough. I simply wanted to make the point that most heart attacks are the result of poor lifestyle rather than pure chance. A couple of years ago I read a report ago from one of the major medical institutions - I forget which one - where they compared the health of people today against the year 1860 when they had begun keeping records. Back then the rates of both heart disease and cancer were about 10% of current levels and it doesn't take any medical knowledge to figure out why. Even poorer people were generally slimmer, fitter and both physically and physiologically stronger and as long as they avoided injuries, infections and sepsis, they were healthier than most of us now, did not need meds to survive and lived just as long as we do today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 22 hours ago, norfolk dumpling said: Yes NHS generally fantastic. My little family have all 'enjoyed' blue light rides and emergency treatment recently which was excellent but unfortunately my disabled son has not been so lucky and some of his experiences have been very very poor indeed - it is almost as if he has no value and gets the bare minimum of treatment/attention. Whilst this may be viewed as paranoia one consultant who was treating his epilepsy did admit he goes the extra mile as he knows that if he does his best for the patient it eases the burden on the immediate and wider family. This was in response to an unpleasant situation where we were unhappy with the previous consultant who made it very difficult to change tack. The new guy also corrected medication which had quite clearly been incorrectly prescibed!! Our sons condition then improved considerably. We are now facing another uphill struggle but with long-term cancer for the poor little sod! A second hospital, which has stepped in to help, has been absolutely brilliant. It's a lottery chaps and chapesses! Hope your young one is making a good recovery not nice when kids are ill... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Can't fault the front of house staff. Even in the private sector they still have the form filling to do. We are fortunate to be covered by a private scheme I joined as a serving police officer and my wife had to have some minor surgery recently. The same questions and same forms filled in three times as she moved from dept., to dept., again the front of house staff and surgeon where fantastic................................................. .... I mean what would all of those overpaid unnecessary 'managers' have to do if they did have all these statistics to pour over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Walker570 said: Can't fault the front of house staff. Even in the private sector they still have the form filling to do. We are fortunate to be covered by a private scheme I joined as a serving police officer and my wife had to have some minor surgery recently. The same questions and same forms filled in three times as she moved from dept., to dept., again the front of house staff and surgeon where fantastic................................................. .... I mean what would all of those overpaid unnecessary 'managers' have to do if they did have all these statistics to pour over? They might actually have to do some useful work .... Edited February 22, 2018 by hawkeye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Westward said: Okay fair enough. I simply wanted to make the point that most heart attacks are the result of poor lifestyle rather than pure chance. A couple of years ago I read a report ago from one of the major medical institutions - I forget which one - where they compared the health of people today against the year 1860 when they had begun keeping records. Back then the rates of both heart disease and cancer were about 10% of current levels and it doesn't take any medical knowledge to figure out why. Even poorer people were generally slimmer, fitter and both physically and physiologically stronger and as long as they avoided injuries, infections and sepsis, they were healthier than most of us now, did not need meds to survive and lived just as long as we do today. No way did they live as long as we do today. Back in the 1860s the life expectancy of the average man was well below 50, closer to 40, In the industrial mill towns of the North, TB was killing people by 30 in droves due to overcrowding. even in 1900 life expectancy was 49 for men. By WW2 most men still did not reach 60 in many parts of the country, things only really started to improve until after the invention of penicillin. Have a look at this, its quite scary https://visual.ons.gov.uk/how-has-life-expectancy-changed-over-time/ Edited February 22, 2018 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7daysinaweek Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 As Vince says weare living longer than we have ever been due to antibiotics, immunisation and medications such as statins, adopting key mineral and supplements into food etc. These advances have led to eradication of some diseases and ultimately are the factor for us living longer. Health protection is what it is. atb 7diaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 On 22/02/2018 at 09:34, Westward said: Back then the rates of both heart disease and cancer were about 10% of current levels and it doesn't take any medical knowledge to figure out why. There are many reasons why this could be the case! Perhaps you could tell us why you think it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 Vince, you didn't read my post properly. What I said was "as long as they avoided injuries, infections and sepsis". Average life expectancy figures include all forms of health related causes of death. In 1860 thousands of people died young who would have been saved had modern antiseptics and antibiotics been around. Ask yourself this: How many people over 70 do I know who are not permanently taking any prescription meds? Come to that, how many over 40? Something like 60% of over 50s are being prescribed statins and most of them are also on blood pressure meds. As I understand it about 15% of adults are currently on permanent meds for type 2 diabetes which has become a huge and growing problem and one which is very expensive to treat. Not least because diabetics usually develop other serious medical problems a few years down the road. People who study NHS finances are deeply concerned at the rate costs are increasing as more and more people develop type 2. If the current rate of increase continues, treating type 2 will represent the largest single expenditure for the NHS within 10-15 years. (Incidentally, type 2 is almost always caused by poor lifestyle choices, particularly dietary, and didn't exist in 1860). All these medications are merely alleviating symptoms, none of them can be considered as any sort of cure. Average life expectancy for a male in this country is 77 years. Were it not for the drugs mention above, and numerous others, that figure would be much, much lower. If you don't believe me, take a walk around around a couple of churchyards and read the headstones. You might be surprised at how long some people lived back in the 19th century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, panoma1 said: There are many reasons why this could be the case! Perhaps you could tell us why you think it is? Most people in 1860 lived and worked in the country doing physically demanding tasks and often outdoors. It's not universally understood but daylight is major contributor to good overall health. Anyone with some garden space - which was most - grew their own vegetables and fruit. Milk was not processed to destroy most of the vitamins and apart from curing or smoking, meat was natural and free of interference from laboratory produced hormones, nutrients and preservatives. In a nutshell, such people were far healthier than the vast majority of the population in this country today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, panoma1 said: There are many reasons why this could be the case! Perhaps you could tell us why you think it is? Its because most of it went undiagnosed. People got sick, they died and got buried. Most families couldn't afford a doctor, even if they could the doctor had no treatments to cure most diseases. Edited February 23, 2018 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 26 minutes ago, Westward said: Most people in 1860 lived and worked in the country doing physically demanding tasks and often outdoors. It's not universally understood but daylight is major contributor to good overall health. Anyone with some garden space - which was most - grew their own vegetables and fruit. Milk was not processed to destroy most of the vitamins and apart from curing or smoking, meat was natural and free of interference from laboratory produced hormones, nutrients and preservatives. In a nutshell, such people were far healthier than the vast majority of the population in this country today. You certainly have a rose tinted view of mid 19th century Britain, where 50% of the population lived in towns and cities working in factories and mines. As an example, in 1871 50,000 people died from smallpox, the majority town and city dwellers and let's not forget Cholera, Dissantry and Typhus killing many more. The majority with only a back yard at best, so no vegetables there, hence the introduction of allotments act in 1922 to provide a way the working poor could provide themselves with food to improve their diet. Pasteurization of milk is one of the most significant advances in food hygiene ever made and saved the lives of tens of thousands of people dying from TB and has made milk one of the safest foods available. As a nation, we have never been healthier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7daysinaweek Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, CharlieT said: You certainly have a rose tinted view of mid 19th century Britain, where 50% of the population lived in towns and cities working in factories and mines. As an example, in 1871 50,000 people died from smallpox, the majority town and city dwellers and let's not forget Cholera, Dissantry and Typhus killing many more. The majority with only a back yard at best, so no vegetables there, hence the introduction of allotments act in 1922 to provide a way the working poor could provide themselves with food to improve their diet. Pasteurization of milk is one of the most significant advances in food hygiene ever made and saved the lives of tens of thousands of people dying from TB and has made milk one of the safest foods available. As a nation, we have never been healthier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 55 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Its because most of it went undiagnosed. People got sick, they died and got buried. Most families couldn't afford a doctor, even if they could the doctor had no treatments to cure most diseases. This has made me remember, my Grandad came from a large family think one of his brothers or sisters died when young and there was a conversation at the time as to whether or not they got the doctor round when they were ill due to the cost, so probably died and buried without any idea as to the cause, this would have been pre world war two, totally different times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldgun Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 On 2/21/2018 at 10:00, wingnut said: If It wasn't for these people i could possibly have been dead on Sunday, God bless them, and all the amazing hospital doctors, nurses, consultants etc Derby Royal Infirmary glad you were all there when i needed you. Totally unexpected heart attack, which if it wasn't for the speed of the paramedics and the great skills and expertise of ALL NHS Staff i probably wouldn't be upright, above ground and breathing today. God bless all of them, These people are absolutely amazing, and don't get the respect that they deserve. Hi wingnut hope you get well soon,had a similar experience with the NHS been in and out of Norfolk and Norwich hospital since end Nov. The care has been superb can not fault the NHS,lots of knockers not enough praise,the system is under great pressure but in my experience comes up with the goods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 4 hours ago, CharlieT said: You certainly have a rose tinted view of mid 19th century Britain, where 50% of the population lived in towns and cities working in factories and mines. As an example, in 1871 50,000 people died from smallpox, the majority town and city dwellers and let's not forget Cholera, Dissantry and Typhus killing many more. The majority with only a back yard at best, so no vegetables there, hence the introduction of allotments act in 1922 to provide a way the working poor could provide themselves with food to improve their diet. Pasteurization of milk is one of the most significant advances in food hygiene ever made and saved the lives of tens of thousands of people dying from TB and has made milk one of the safest foods available. As a nation, we have never been healthier. Did you miss the point I made in 2 posts regarding infections/antibiotics etc? "As a nation, we have never been healthier". Really? 'We' eat far more than we should and too much of it is empty food or just plain harmful which is why most people are overweight and an ever increasing number are obese. Added to that 'we' get little or no proper exercise and spend far too much time sitting down. The result being vastly more heart disease and cancer, plus type 2 diabetes (which didn't exist 100 years ago) and a range of other condition such as osteoporosis which is no longer confined to post menopausal women and now affects quite a lot of men too. These are conditions generally resulting from a lousy lifestyle and which doctors "manage" by prescribing drugs upon which many patients depend - quite often in order to stay alive. If you think that makes 'us' healthy then I have to say I totally disagree. Extending life span with medication is not at all the same as being healthy and in my father's case the meds he took for the last 3 miserable years of life reduced him to little more than a zombie. Sorry, but that's not healthy, it's not even living... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted February 23, 2018 Report Share Posted February 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Westward said: The result being vastly more heart disease and cancer, plus type 2 diabetes (which didn't exist 100 years ago) and a range of other condition such as osteoporosis which is no longer confined to post menopausal women and now affects quite a lot of men too. These are conditions generally resulting from a lousy lifestyle and which doctors "manage" by prescribing drugs upon which many patients depend - quite often in order to stay alive. And there's me thinking that what we now call type 2 was first diagnosed 1500 years BC. However, I do agree that then, as now, it is generally but not always, a problem of diet. One must not fall into the trap of suggesting that we have a higher incidence of heart disease, or cancer for that matter, now than we did in the mid 1800's when we all know that the vast majority of these diseases present in the over 40's, an age which those living in the 1850's failed to reach. One of my pet hates is generalising and find it rather offensive when it's suggested that everyone presenting with heart disease, cancer or diabetes T2 is at fault because of their lousy lifestyle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern01 Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 On 21/02/2018 at 17:10, Vince Green said: I am very critical of the NHS but not the staff. When my mother (85) was taken ill I was amazed that the ambulance crew could not call up her history on their tablets. In this day and age its ridiculous that they can't. Instead we had an hour long question and answer session while they filled out a big long form. Most of it trivial information and not at all sensitive really. A brand new ambulance sitting outside while two highly trained paramedics fill out a form . I wonder how many times a week they do that? and how many people have died as a result because "We have no ambulances available at present" If the ambulance crews weren't considered free taxis for drunks and druggies and having to deal with people with minor problems they could spend more time on the serious cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 26, 2018 Report Share Posted February 26, 2018 The dilemma is that as the NHS keeps us alive longer we all become much more expensive to maintain. My mum is 86 and she must cost the NHS a fortune with all her ailments. I have a Great Aunt who is 100 years old, she is in a private nursing home. That's a NURSING home not a care home, she pays over £1000 a week for nursing care because of her age. However, the one thing she doesn't get is nursed. As soon as she or any of the other old ladies get any sort of illness the home packs them off double quick to the local hospital. Where they remain for an average of a couple of weeks doing little more than bed blocking To me its nothing more than buck passing and the motives are purely commercial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut Posted April 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 Just a quick update, its over a year ago now i had the heart attack, since then i have had no further chest pains, or problems, However, after undertaking Cardio Re Hab in my local hospital it was noticed that i couldn't do various exercises due to pain in my hip, thigh and calf muscles, when questioned about this i explained to the nurse that i had been having these problems for about 10 years , and my Doctor had informed me that it was just a muscle problem , something to do with the Sacro iliac part of my back, and had recommended physio which i had attended. Too cut a long story short, the nurse recommended i see the doctor again, and mention that it was worsening and that she thought it may be something called intermittent claudification, as a result of this after under going various tests they discovered i had no discernable pulse in my right leg, after ultrasound and MRI scans it was revealed that i had a major issue at the point where blood goes down to the legs, and on the 4th of April i am off to hospital to have 2 stents fitted in the arteries in my legs to allow proper circulation, I am hoping it works ok as the alternatives include major arterial by pass, apparently from my neck down to my leg, or worst case scenario , i could be losing toes, feet , or even my legs. I am hoping it all works well so that i can get out and about as i have had to give up all shooting , fishing etc as i just cant walk to far without all the muscles cramping up on me . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) In the US before the Affordable healthcare act. Our insurance was dirt cheap and excellent. But after they fixed it it’s super expensive and is crappy. But it’s free if you are unable or “unwilling to work”. Yes, unwilling was a term out lawmakers used. I hoping the legalize private healthcare again. That way the people who want free healthcare can have it but those that what to buy good healthcare can. They won’t allow it though because of the working class buy their healthcare off the exchange then nobody is on the exchange to pay for the freeloaders. Edited April 2, 2019 by NoBodyImportant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrycatcat1 Posted April 3, 2019 Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 22 hours ago, wingnut said: Just a quick update, its over a year ago now i had the heart attack, since then i have had no further chest pains, or problems, However, after undertaking Cardio Re Hab in my local hospital it was noticed that i couldn't do various exercises due to pain in my hip, thigh and calf muscles, when questioned about this i explained to the nurse that i had been having these problems for about 10 years , and my Doctor had informed me that it was just a muscle problem , something to do with the Sacro iliac part of my back, and had recommended physio which i had attended. Too cut a long story short, the nurse recommended i see the doctor again, and mention that it was worsening and that she thought it may be something called intermittent claudification, as a result of this after under going various tests they discovered i had no discernable pulse in my right leg, after ultrasound and MRI scans it was revealed that i had a major issue at the point where blood goes down to the legs, and on the 4th of April i am off to hospital to have 2 stents fitted in the arteries in my legs to allow proper circulation, I am hoping it works ok as the alternatives include major arterial by pass, apparently from my neck down to my leg, or worst case scenario , i could be losing toes, feet , or even my legs. I am hoping it all works well so that i can get out and about as i have had to give up all shooting , fishing etc as i just cant walk to far without all the muscles cramping up on me . Good luck with the procedure pal, come and see us at the clay shoot when you get better or the Castle when your up for it. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 God bless them indeed, last year and this has seen my Mum in and out for numerous reasons, just before Christmas her oxygen sats fell to 44 and she was at deaths door. The specialist had never seen sats as low before! If my Sister has not have visited mum when she did, she wouldn’t be here today! Since then mum has been in 4 times. 3 for her breathing, and last week she took a fall and bashed her head on the ottoman and ripped her arm open. The hospital staff patched her up and cared for her for 4 days before they were happy enough to let her come home! Dad also recently underwent a succesful hip operation too. He has been given a whole new lease of life again. I for one one think the NHS “although struggling” is a fantastic institution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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