Side by Side Club

[Gunman]

20 hours ago, button said:

Thanks, out of interest where would you view they sit compared to AYA and Arrieta?

Goes against the grain as an English gunsmith but I have in recent years advised people to buy AyA's rather than an older English sidelock if the gun is going to get more than light use  . The Arizagabalaga and the Arietta  like the Grulla's tend to be better finished guns , nicer wood finer engraving , higher polished barrels etc .but  overall I think  the AyA is a better made gun .

All gunmakers have there ups and downs some periods there guns are not as well made as they might have been , some guns have certain ongoing problems , AyA had striker issues but these were sorted 7/8 years ago , Sables were known for breaking ejector kickers , as said the Arizagabalaga's had barrel wall problems .

As a gunsmith I also consider the availability of spares if needed and ASI for AyA were always very good where others some times took time to obtain .

 AyA's of which there are many good examples around if you take the time to look . Go for as late a made gun as possible as they have been altered over time  and look for one with as much original finish as possible  , brushed off and polished actions may have been the owners choice , but it may well hide the fact that the gun has been well used .

If you are no prejudiced against short barrels you can get a AyA 25 for next to nothing .

[button]

1 hour ago, Gunman said:

Goes against the grain as an English gunsmith but I have in recent years advised people to buy AyA's rather than an older English sidelock if the gun is going to get more than light use  . The Arizagabalaga and the Arietta  like the Grulla's tend to be better finished guns , nicer wood finer engraving , higher polished barrels etc .but  overall I think  the AyA is a better made gun .

All gunmakers have there ups and downs some periods there guns are not as well made as they might have been , some guns have certain ongoing problems , AyA had striker issues but these were sorted 7/8 years ago , Sables were known for breaking ejector kickers , as said the Arizagabalaga's had barrel wall problems .

As a gunsmith I also consider the availability of spares if needed and ASI for AyA were always very good where others some times took time to obtain .

 AyA's of which there are many good examples around if you take the time to look . Go for as late a made gun as possible as they have been altered over time  and look for one with as much original finish as possible  , brushed off and polished actions may have been the owners choice , but it may well hide the fact that the gun has been well used .

If you are no prejudiced against short barrels you can get a AyA 25 for next to nothing .

Thanks for that, appreciate your advice

[Lloyd90]

Just picked up a very lovely AYA 117 side lock ejector from a RFD down the road  nice little outing at lunch time. 

[London Best]

Quality!

[button]

2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Just picked up a very lovely AYA 117 side lock ejector from a RFD down the road  nice little outing at lunch time. 

C'mon you know the rule   posts like that need pics

[Lloyd90]

On 22/05/2020 at 19:21, button said:

C'mon you know the rule   posts like that need pics

 

Apologies was getting round to it   

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Lloyd90

[mossy835]

good job. nice looking gun.

[enfieldspares]

I do rather like that and wood that has a nice functional figure. Nice to the eye but also being still straight through the hand for strength. I've never liked fancy wood.

[button]

Very nice

[kevin55]

Very nice

It was AYA117 who started this thread

[Old Boggy]

I`m glad that you ended up getting it Lloyd. A lovely gun at a good price.

Enjoy owning and using it 

OB

[matone]

Hope that you get years of pleasure out of that one !

[Old farrier]

4 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

Apologies was getting round to it   

 

Very nice looking gun 

im sure it’ll give you a lot of pleasure 😊👍

[Farmboy91]

4 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

Apologies was getting round to it   

 

Very nice indeed.

Reminds me of why I brought my no.4, and how much I hated having to get rid of it.

[Lloyd90]

I'll wait and see if I can hit anything with it first  

[Farmboy91]

Atleast if you miss, you'll be missing with style!

[matone]

17 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

I'll wait and see if I can hit anything with it first  

Think positive !!

[London Best]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

I'll wait and see if I can hit anything with it first  

A proper gun that, well done Sir.

Stick with it until you learn to use it, and if necessary seek professional instruction/gunfitting. The gun is worth it.

[Lloyd90]

Question for you knowledgeable gents, that AYA 117, the action of the gun is very stiff, I assume this is from very little use? or has it just been tightened up after a service or something? 

 

If I open the gun when the gun has not been fired, the gun opens easily enough. If however I have fired the gun (both triggers) when opened it is a little bit stiffer (probably because the ejectors are both now up?), and to close the gun (with the ejectors now both sticking up) it is very firm. It's easily do-able but just very firm. I just assumed it is a good thing, as a stiff action shows not a lot of use and better than a loose or sloppy action? 

Will it just loosen up a bit over time? 

 

thanks 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Lloyd90

[enfieldspares]

I am guessing that the system is a standard sidelock ejector build but with hidden third bite? All side by side ejectors using the Southgate system are slightly more difficult to open when fired than when unfired. My son's Gunmark Viscount being more difficult then either my Boss or my French Robust 28E guns that have assisted opening.

So this isn't because the ejectors are up but because you have to "trip" them as well as re-cock your two hammers. So the resistance is that of your hammer mainsprings AND slightly later the "trip" to fire your ejectors.

And the only thing that is doing that is you. Whereas on my Boss or French Robust guns I am being helped (this is why it is called "assisted" opening) by the gun's own design.

So what you are finding is quite normal. As you gun is "unassisted"! But that is standard on most every side by side be it sidelock or boxlock. Closing again is the same. The gun's hammers are cocked as you open it if it has been fired. So you did that when you opened it after firing it. So the force you feel on opening it is the force needed to cock those hammer springs.

But! As it opened after firing it your ejector's ejected (as they are intended to do). So now those springs now aren't cocked and it is your closing of the gun that does that. So that force that you are feeling on closing the gun is the force to cock those ejector springs.

Having said all the above stiff opening and stiff closing can also be caused by a broken part behind the locks or a fault with the underbolt but from what you say on your gun I think that it has no such fault or faults. What you are feeling is the power, as it were, of the springs in the locks as you open it and you recock them and the powrer of the springs in your ejectors as (as you close the gun) you then cock them.

Hope it helps. You have a nice gun there. Very nice.

Edited May 25, 2020 by enfieldspares

[Lloyd90]

10 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

I am guessing that the system is a standard sidelock ejector build but with hidden third bite? All side by side ejectors using the Southgate system are slightly more difficult to open when fired than when unfired. My son's Gunmark Viscount being more difficult then either my Boss or my French Robust 28E guns that have assisted opening.

So this isn't because the ejectors are up but because you have to "trip" them as well as re-cock your two hammers. So the resistance is that of your hammer mainsprings AND slightly later the "trip" to fire your ejectors.

And the only thing that is doing that is you. Whereas on my Boss or French Robust guns I am being helped (this is why it is called "assisted" opening) by the gun's own design.

So what you are finding is quite normal. As you gun is "unassisted"! But that is standard on most every side by side be it sidelock or boxlock. Closing again is the same. The gun's hammers are cocked as you open it if it has been fired. So you did that when you opened it after firing it. So the force you feel on opening it is the force needed to cock those hammer springs.

But! As it opened after firing it your ejector's ejected (as they are intended to do). So now those springs now aren't cocked and it is your closing of the gun that does that. So that force that you are feeling on closing the gun is the force to cock those ejector springs.

Having said all the above stiff opening and stiff closing can also be caused by a broken part behind the locks or a fault with the underbolt but from what you say on your gun I think that it has no such fault or faults. What you are feeling is the power, as it were, of the springs in the locks as you open it and you recock them and the powrer of the springs in your ejectors as (as you close the gun) you then cock them.

Hope it helps. You have a nice gun there. Very nice.

Thank you 👍🏻 Very interesting. 
 

How come you don’t get that on O/U’s? 🤔

[London Best]

The ejectors usually work on a different system. Most use coil springs, and coil mainsprings too.

[Gunman]

4 hours ago, London Best said:

The ejectors usually work on a different system. Most use coil springs, and coil mainsprings too.

AyA's use V springs in the locks and the ejectors .Very few traditional  side by sides made in Britain and Europe use coil springs in ejectors apart from guns fitted withe Baker system, as well as Cogswell and Boss . As to main springs one or two did experiment with coil springs  ,the Rodgers patent side lock , but this was  never taken up as mainstream 

As to being stiff I think its something you wont notice in use , just make sure there is a very light film of medium weight oil on the sides of the lumps and on the knuckle .

[London Best]

4 hours ago, London Best said:

The ejectors usually work on a different system. Most use coil springs, and coil mainsprings too.

Obviously, I meant the O/U’s use coil springs.

[Lloyd90]

Took the gun out this afternoon, missed one easy pigeon and nothing else came into range sadly... will need to take it to the clay ground to get a proper idea of how it fits me based on how many I hit!