Side by Side Club

[Centrepin]

9 hours ago, London Best said:

The game shooting elite in the late Victorian/Edwardian era reckoned to average about 20,000 cartridges per year.

There was a Boss gun in a testing department somewhere, I can’t remember whether it was at Eley or at a proof house, that had fired over 1 1/4 million rounds with no measurable wear. That was many years ago. I wonder what it has fired now?

Edit. I’m a muppet! Posted on the wrong post, sorry.

Still interesting though😁

[shootthepigeon]

Here's my 2 for the club, a recently acquired AYA No2 26", and my old Midland ble with 30"damascus barrels from around 1900 ish. Picked up some 65mm carts for a couple of small days soon

[Mr.C]

Very nice, very nice. 👍

[enfieldspares]

The Eley owned Boss was, supposedly, to have fired three million cartridges. It is mentioned in one of Gough Thomas's books I believe?

[London Best]

9 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

The Eley owned Boss was, supposedly, to have fired three million cartridges. It is mentioned in one of Gough Thomas's books I believe?

Thanks for that. The 1 1/4 million figure was from years ago. 3M could be the final figure.

[matone]

Has the Eley Boss ever been found? It disappeared from the factory when it closed apparently!!!!

[buze]

So, a bit of closure for the AYA#1 that failed proof story. Turns out the delays I was quoted are way too long for me to want to wait. Especially since it involved importing/exporting a gun right across the Brexit deadline. Sod it, there are plenty of other guns.

So, heres what I've found. EJC Continental, 32" barrels, semi-pistol grip, single trigger, 3" chambers, slight beavertail forend. Built like a tank, it's about as heavy as my clay gun, is a perfect fit without any modifications. I've put a deposit on it, hopefulluy get it once it has been serviced. Gun is one of a pair (can't justify a pair of guns really, I don't so that sort of days!) and as been used perhaps 4 times by someone who switched to O/Us since.

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Edited October 20, 2020 by buze

[JohnfromUK]

19 minutes ago, buze said:

So, heres what I've found. EJC Continental,

Looks very nice - are they made by Batista Rizzinni?

[Dave at kelton]

On 19/10/2020 at 09:58, London Best said:

The game shooting elite in the late Victorian/Edwardian era reckoned to average about 20,000 cartridges per year.

There was a Boss gun in a testing department somewhere, I can’t remember whether it was at Eley or at a proof house, that had fired over 1 1/4 million rounds with no measurable wear. That was many years ago. I wonder what it has fired now?

Edit. I’m a muppet! Posted on the wrong post, sorry.

Interesting. Remember being in Frederick Beasley’s many years ago when they had a customers guns in for service and talking about gun wear. I can’t remember if a pair or trio and they said their customer shot around 25,000 cartridges a year through them. Sent them back each year for service.

[buze]

1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

Looks very nice - are they made by Batista Rizzinni?

No this one is based on an AYA #2, AFAIK they come to the UK in the metal and get finished here. The previous generation were made by Arieta, but they got bust (I saw a Continental from that era, very very nice, but ~5K more somehow)

[JohnfromUK]

5 minutes ago, buze said:

No this one is based on an AYA #2, AFAIK they come to the UK in the metal and get finished here. The previous generation were made by Arieta, but they got bust (I saw a Continental from that era, very very nice, but ~5K more somehow)

OK, I did know that Arrietta made the previous generation Powell continental s/s guns. Arrietta are well respected.   I believe the latest generation Powell guns now (Viscount and Sovereign I think) are made by Rizzinni.

I think the earliest Powell 'made overseas' guns (which they called the Heritage series about 40 years ago) were made by Abbiattico and Salvinelli (Famars), who made for various as well as under their own name, but they have used Arrietta for some time.  Also I believe A & S (famars) is now no longer in business.  They also used to build for Beretta.

Some other 'London' names use Perrugini and Vishini.

I may have some spellings wrong!

[button]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

OK, I did know that Arrietta made the previous generation Powell continental s/s guns. Arrietta are well respected.   I believe the latest generation Powell guns now (Viscount and Sovereign I think) are made by Rizzinni.

I think the earliest Powell 'made overseas' guns (which they called the Heritage series about 40 years ago) were made by Abbiattico and Salvinelli (Famars), who made for various as well as under their own name, but they have used Arrietta for some time.  Also I believe A & S (famars) is now no longer in business.  They also used to build for Beretta.

Some other 'London' names use Perrugini and Vishini.

I may have some spellings wrong!

But this is an EJ Churchill not a Powell

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, button said:

But this is an EJ Churchill not a Powell

Yes, I understand that - I was commenting on Arrietta and why they might be asking a high price for for an (earlier) Arrietta based EJ Churchill.  I didn't know EJ Churchill now used AyA.

[button]

30 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Yes, I understand that - I was commenting on Arrietta and why they might be asking a high price for for an (earlier) Arrietta based EJ Churchill.  I didn't know EJ Churchill now used AyA.

Apologies

I thought they were built on the heavier Arrieta action like the Powell Linhope used which I would have said is more like the aya #53/56 which would be my guess as to the higher price 

On a side note i thought the Linhope was a lovely gun

[JohnfromUK]

9 minutes ago, button said:

I thought they were built on the heavier Arrieta action like the Powell Linhope

That I don't know.

10 minutes ago, button said:

I would have said is more like the aya #53/56

I have always fancied a 56, but when I was actively looking, I couldn't fine one in the spec. I wanted (part of which was a moderate price!).  I have a No 1 which is nice, but occasionally I have hankered for a heavier duty gun.  The No 1 is quite light.

[buze]

11 minutes ago, button said:

Apologies

I thought they were built on the heavier Arrieta action like the Powell Linhope used which I would have said is more like the aya #53/56 which would be my guess as to the higher price 

On a side note i thought the Linhope was a lovely gun

That "continental" AYA model is almost perfectly identical to the Arrietta Continental, the action is pretty much the same, and of the two guns, the only /visible/ difference is the side of the fence, otherwise, they are pretty much the same model, same handling.

I was lucky to swing the 3 guns, and spend quite a bit of time inspecting them, the Arrietta variation is a notch shorter, have a sligthly lower comb but seems to handle pretty much the same, the action is as beefy, finish very very similar (as they should as they are apparently finished here). Trigger might be a bit different of course - I only shot ~80 clays with the one I'm getting.

There was an article in The Field about the Continental (Arrietta, from 2017) and our old favourite writter was waxing lyrical about it. Strangely (don't mark me down for this) it was pretty much spot on of my conclusion after shooting one!

The reason the Arrietta is more expensive is that /that/ gun is not owned by EJC but by the owner who is selling it and not willing to move on price. I had made an offer (reasonable) -- It is a stonking gun, but, it seems, overpriced.

The one I'm getting has a tiny play in the forend, and the trigger on the second pull has a tiny bit of play, nothing their competent gunsmith can't fix I'm sure. (*famous last words!*)

 

[button]

I read that review, he raved about it apart from the sharp side clips

Yours looks a lovely gun and am sure you will get a lot of enjoyment from it, does it come cased?

[buze]

45 minutes ago, button said:

I read that review, he raved about it apart from the sharp side clips

Yours looks a lovely gun and am sure you will get a lot of enjoyment from it, does it come cased?

I wish! but no, I've got a lead for a case that will take a 32" SxS and doesn't come at "bespoke" £1500 but as it is, nope, no case  I've been looking got 4 years for a case that will take my 32" hammer gun and haven't found one either.

[theshootist]

15 hours ago, buze said:

So, a bit of closure for the AYA#1 that failed proof story. Turns out the delays I was quoted are way too long for me to want to wait. Especially since it involved importing/exporting a gun right across the Brexit deadline. Sod it, there are plenty of other guns.

So, heres what I've found. EJC Continental, 32" barrels, semi-pistol grip, single trigger, 3" chambers, slight beavertail forend. Built like a tank, it's about as heavy as my clay gun, is a perfect fit without any modifications. I've put a deposit on it, hopefulluy get it once it has been serviced. Gun is one of a pair (can't justify a pair of guns really, I don't so that sort of days!) and as been used perhaps 4 times by someone who switched to O/Us since.

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Gorgeous! I've never shot a 32" SBS, I bet it will swing beautifully and handle heavy stuff. Very nice flat wide rib too. 

[JohnfromUK]

13 hours ago, buze said:

I wish! but no, I've got a lead for a case that will take a 32" SxS and doesn't come at "bespoke" £1500 but as it is, nope, no case  I've been looking got 4 years for a case that will take my 32" hammer gun and haven't found one either.

Cases to take 32' s/s aren't likely to be common, but do exist.  This AyA has both 28" and 30" barrels and as you can see, the 30" pocket could take up to about 33".  I believe the case was made in the UK circa late 1980s when the second (30") barrels were supplied.

[London Best]

13 hours ago, buze said:

I wish! but no, I've got a lead for a case that will take a 32" SxS and doesn't come at "bespoke" £1500 but as it is, nope, no case  I've been looking got 4 years for a case that will take my 32" hammer gun and haven't found one either.

Google LGC, London Gun Cases. They make for the trade and are great, reliable people to deal with. But, have your wallet ready. You are not far off at £1500. Failing that, speak to Mr. Brady, he will be a little cheaper.

[ehb102]

Just received this email:

Atkin Grant & Langs

Side by Side Challenge 

Tuesday 10th November to Saturday 14th November

Here at AGL we love to take the opportunity to hold an event dedicated to the wonderful charms of shooting a Side by Side Shotgun. Whilst we are not able to hold the Side by Side Championship this year we have replaced this with our Side by Side Challenge. 

The 80 bird course is specifically designed for Side by Sides including four game orientated sequences.
The event will start on Tuesday 10th November and run through to Saturday 14th November. 
We will be squadding the event in groups of no more than five competitors.
A caddy will accompany you around the course, buttoning and scoring for the squad. 

Pre-booking is required, please call 01582 849382 or email: karli@agl-uk.com to book.

If you would like to tackle the course but do not own a Side by Side, you are welcome to shoot with and Over & Under, however you will not be eligible to win the overall challenge.

Prizes will be awarded depending on entries

Entry Fee £38 

*Tweed not necessary but most definitely welcome!! 😆*

Edited October 21, 2020 by ehb102

[buze]

10 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Cases to take 32' s/s aren't likely to be common, but do exist.  This AyA has both 28" and 30" barrels and as you can see, the 30" pocket could take up to about 33".  I believe the case was made in the UK circa late 1980s when the second (30") barrels were supplied.

That looks pretty handy -- with "room to grow into" it seems! :-) I was looking at a 34" perazzi in EJC gun room yesterday. I always say that if you want heavier barrels, you could just have to wear a heavier watch! But then again, I'm the guy with now 2 (wildly different era) 32" SxS :-)

9 hours ago, London Best said:

Google LGC, London Gun Cases. They make for the trade and are great, reliable people to deal with. But, have your wallet ready. You are not far off at £1500. Failing that, speak to Mr. Brady, he will be a little cheaper.

Yes that's what I've seen on the various shooting shows over the last few years, mostly ~1500 quid -- I MIGHT cave in for that new gun which is worth quite a bit (my most expensive gun, vastly more expensive than my reasonably fancy O/U clay gun!), but really, not for my poor "Whammy" hammer gun that is worth less that that case, unfortunately. Also, it's an old whammy, it needs an old case, with patina.

 

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, buze said:

That looks pretty handy -- with "room to grow into" it seems! 🙂

My guess is that it is a standard 'carcass' fitted inside to take the two sets of barrels.  I know that case was made (in the UK) at the same time as the 30" barrels were supplied (by AyA but proofed and fitted in B'ham), and I know that was soon after 1987.  I have a feeling it may be by Brady, but it is unmarked by maker.  I believe it was supplied through ASI, but cannot be 100% certain.

[buze]

8 hours ago, ehb102 said:

Just received this email:

Atkin Grant & Langs

Side by Side Challenge 

Tuesday 10th November to Saturday 14th November

Here at AGL we love to take the opportunity to hold an event dedicated to the wonderful charms of shooting a Side by Side Shotgun. Whilst we are not able to hold the Side by Side Championship this year we have replaced this with our Side by Side Challenge. 

The 80 bird course is specifically designed for Side by Sides including four game orientated sequences.
The event will start on Tuesday 10th November and run through to Saturday 14th November. 
We will be squadding the event in groups of no more than five competitors.
A caddy will accompany you around the course, buttoning and scoring for the squad. 

Pre-booking is required, please call 01582 849382 or email: karli@agl-uk.com to book.

If you would like to tackle the course but do not own a Side by Side, you are welcome to shoot with and Over & Under, however you will not be eligible to win the overall challenge.

Prizes will be awarded depending on entries

Entry Fee £38 

*Tweed not necessary but most definitely welcome!! 😆*

That's a bit expensive isnt it? 80 clays for £38 ??! I mean the SxS champ was great, with a great lunch, well worth the money -- but here in the C19 era, you show up, see 4 other people, shoot 80 clays at 47p each (!). Hmm doesn't sound /terribly/ exciting to me. I'm a member at AGL, I like them and want to support them but well, not this time.