Wife's gun

[islandgun]

My wife has decided she would like to have a walk around with me after Rabbits,  Woodcock and clays, using our own trap. Im looking at the Armsan S/A 20 or 28 bores. they come with two stocks and the shorter one is 12 1/2 LOP which I think will suit her well  [ I will also be able to use the longer one ] The 28g weighs in at about 5 1/2lb the 20 about a lb more, I fancy the 28g...  any thoughts ?  

She's 5ft 2"

Edited May 7, 2018 by islandgun

[Stonepark]

If she is slight, i would go with heavier gun and lighter load to keep recoil down as much as possible. Can build up muscle to lift and swing but difficult to incease skeletal padding.

Stock wise, i would think for an adult (even at 5'2"), the 12 1/2" lop will be a bit short and possibly result in poor mounting and cheek slap. Are there butt spacers with stock to increase pull to 13 1/2" which would be more in line with what is required.

 

[Dave at kelton]

My experience when my daughter started shooting. She is slim and no weight at all. We went for a beretta whitewing 20 bore weighing at around 6lb. Even light loads could be uncomfortable for her. She now shoots a silver pigeon 12 bore. My recommendation before you buy anything is spend a little on a good coach at a shooting school that can offer a range of guns to try. It could save you a lot of money in the long run.  She is also less likely to be put off by a gun that knocks her about and you get brownie points for being considerate.

[Wb123]

My better half is very recoil fussy and seems to find a soft 21g load from a twelve bore optimal for her. It is also, fortunately, the cheapest option. She is however markedly taller.

That said if you actually think she won't stick to it and want a 28bore to stick a longer stock on and use yourself when she gives up that may alter the argument. 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Wb123
More information

[JohnfromUK]

Lighter gun = higher recoil (for a given load).  What you want is a high ratio between shot weight and gun weight.  In practice, you will achieve this pretty well with a 'normal' 12 bore and 3/4oz (21g) loads.

In 12, cartridges are widely available and (relatively) economical, and there is a huge choice of guns around.  12 1/2" stock is VERY short - and being too short increases perceived recoil.

I also think that below 20 bore, it is more challenging to shoot well.  I know 28 and even 0.410 have their fans and users, but these are often people who are very good shots, the light loads they use need accurate placement.

Edited May 7, 2018 by JohnfromUK

[Scully]

I’m always of the opinion that if a bwginnner is capable of wielding a 12 bore, I’d go for that option with open chokes and 21grm cartridges. It’s hard enough for beginners to hit stuff, and there is nothing like consistently missing stuff to ensure someone loses interest. Small bores are not the way to go in my opinion. 

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m always of the opinion that if a bwginnner is capable of wielding a 12 bore, I’d go for that option with open chokes and 21grm cartridges. It’s hard enough for beginners to hit stuff, and there is nothing like consistently missing stuff to ensure someone loses interest. Small bores are not the way to go in my opinion. 

+1

[figgy]

Buy her a 12 and use lighter cartridges the gun will not weigh that much different but the carts will be a lot cheaper. just get the stock adjusted to suit her. If you are set on a sub gauge go for the twenty as more choice of carts and she will hit more with it.

My wife is only 5' tall and uses a 12gauge sxs cut down to suit her she don't miss much when she has a go. I bought her 21G Hull Compx and you would barely know it had fired, very little recoil.

Edited May 7, 2018 by figgy

[welshwarrior]

Near impossible to advise with out seeing her, luckily all those above know her and have offered their advice.   

 

Ill leave it with this. 

Balance is key a short stocked gun can get barrel heavy very quickly.  

Weight linked to balance as a heavy well balanced gun will fell lighter the a light barrel heavy gun. But she must be able to use

it without leaning backwards (banana back)

stock dimensions are very important to long or short increases felt recoil.  Too low in the comb results in check slap.  

[Scully]

9 minutes ago, welshwarrior said:

Near impossible to advise with out seeing her, luckily all those above know her and have offered their advice.   

 

Ill leave it with this. 

Balance is key a short stocked gun can get barrel heavy very quickly.  

Weight linked to balance as a heavy well balanced gun will fell lighter the a light barrel heavy gun. But she must be able to use

it without leaning backwards (banana back)

stock dimensions are very important to long or short increases felt recoil.  Too low in the comb results in check slap.  

  Sorry, we seem to have put your nose out by trying to help, but the OP asked for 'thoughts', which we have offered. Of course the 'thoughts' you have shared make complete sense, and are totally relevant, but in future perhaps us mere shooters should leave the experts only to pass on their opinions. I was commenting mostly on the bore, based on many years of passing on my experience to youngsters and beginners in general. 

[GingerCat]

A nice light semi auto will have little recoil even in 12b. Just make sure it fits. 

[islandgun]

Thanks very much for your replies everyone. Tried her with a few different guns, she said the 12's, a Fabarm euro s/a and Beretta o/u with 26" barrels, were heavy, !  a very light 20g single was nice and a 410 single without butt pad seemed to be the best length fit at 13" although the comb was way too low,  

Her motive to start is for the enhancement/encouragement of a good walk more than the marksmanship, we would be covering a lot of ground, mostly heather moorland. grassland and dunes, hence my thinking for a small/light s/a,  coupled with the low recoil of light loads, We would probably only use a few cartridges,  The Armsan seems to be very practical allowing adjustment via shims etc and two stocks ! and reviews comment on it being well balanced.   I guess the 20g is the sensible choice but feel drawn to the 28g, It is difficult to try a few as we wont be leaving the Island together until late October and I would like to get her started on the clays before the season starts

Cheers IG 

[buze]

While I concur on the 21g 12 bore, one of the issue is weight when carrying the gun on walk ups... My wife is 5.2" as well, shoots a guerini Syren on clays and driven days (up to 34g on ducks!) with excellent results -- and yes the weighty gun means she can shoot 34g with it. It takes a while to get used to the weight, but she has a much more stable gun now that she does. 

But for walk up the Guerini is just too heavy, she uses a small boxlock 12 bore with 26g #6's (Imperial game) -- basically that cartridge is pretty much a CompX with a game load.

I also agree not to take a short stock, it's a mistake a lot of people make with ladies I think, 'short 20 bore and off you go'. She still gets remarks about it by well meaning people, until they see her shoot with it ;-)

[figgy]

Has your wife tried handling a short SXS ? its what my wife shoots wit 21g Comp x and she can use it with no problems for recoil or weight. a fella i know his wife used a benelli 28 bore with a carbon fiber rib very light weight. Hatsan do a junior model in a 20 bore at reduced length of pull they did do a pink girly version to.

Edited May 8, 2018 by figgy

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, this would be my thought, ARMSAN A620S COMBO in 20 bore , 1 junior stock/1 adult stock, with sling swivels, 

[motty]

2 hours ago, buze said:

While I concur on the 21g 12 bore, one of the issue is weight when carrying the gun on walk ups... My wife is 5.2" as well, shoots a guerini Syren on clays and driven days (up to 34g on ducks!) with excellent results -- and yes the weighty gun means she can shoot 34g with it. It takes a while to get used to the weight, but she has a much more stable gun now that she does. 

But for walk up the Guerini is just too heavy, she uses a small boxlock 12 bore with 26g #6's (Imperial game) -- basically that cartridge is pretty much a CompX with a game load.

I also agree not to take a short stock, it's a mistake a lot of people make with ladies I think, 'short 20 bore and off you go'. She still gets remarks about it by well meaning people, until they see her shoot with it ;-)

What brand does your wife use on the ducks?

[islandgun]

Well obviously I went against everyone's best judgement and put a deposit on a cre8 armsan 28g !  it has a 13.5" stock which comes with shims for adjustment, I was concerned that the 12.5 stock on the synthetic would prove to short, but expect I can alter length by changing the recoil pad if needed.  I think the 5.5lb gun will be easier to carry across the moor and will make for a more enjoyable walk,  also im guessing 21grm of  7's in a 28g is the same as 21grm of 7's in a 12g although the recoil might be a bit harsher.. thanks again IG

 

 

 

[Scully]

Looks a nice gun. Have fun. 

[figgy]

Is that for your wife or for yourself 

enjoy it

[islandgun]

56 minutes ago, figgy said:

Is that for your wife or for yourself 

enjoy it

I might get a shot..... cheers

 

Anyone got a press ?

[Ultrastu]

You must report back on that gun as ive fancied one of those my self .

Im not sure 21 grm of 7 out of a 28 will be anywhere near as hard (recoil) as the same from a 12 b. 

Id suspect it carries less powder in the case as the smaller bore will create a higher pressure meaning the lower powered charge will give the 28 b  similar  muzzle speed as the 12 b 

????? Possibly .

Put it this way 19.5 grm of 7.5 out of my super duper light weight. 410 hardly recoils at all . (Cos the powered is less .) 

[islandgun]

11 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

You must report back on that gun as ive fancied one of those my self .

Im not sure 21 grm of 7 out of a 28 will be anywhere near as hard (recoil) as the same from a 12 b. 

Id suspect it carries less powder in the case as the smaller bore will create a higher pressure meaning the lower powered charge will give the 28 b  similar  muzzle speed as the 12 b 

????? Possibly .

Put it this way 19.5 grm of 7.5 out of my super duper light weight. 410 hardly recoils at all . (Cos the powered is less .) 

Good point, you may well be right. I will check through some reloading data and see if i can make any comparisons..

[buze]

11 hours ago, motty said:

What brand does your wife use on the ducks?

Hi Motty, we use RC3 Steel 2"3/4 34g #3's for ducks, and #1's for geese -- bought from Just Cartridges. I have to say, I'm quite amazed she can shoot that, but heck, she certainly does :-) But I do recommend these, they bring them down neatly and at some pretty appreciable distances... Only max of half choke on our gun as per specifications, but they certainly work well.

 

[islandgun]

51 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

You must report back on that gun as ive fancied one of those my self .

Im not sure 21 grm of 7 out of a 28 will be anywhere near as hard (recoil) as the same from a 12 b. 

Id suspect it carries less powder in the case as the smaller bore will create a higher pressure meaning the lower powered charge will give the 28 b  similar  muzzle speed as the 12 b 

????? Possibly .

Put it this way 19.5 grm of 7.5 out of my super duper light weight. 410 hardly recoils at all . (Cos the powered is less .) 

Just found some recipes cheddite cases 21grms

12g. 700x powder. 25grns

28g. 700x powder.  12 grns

12g  psi 9800 . Fps 1600

28g  psi 1120. Fps 1200

[welshwarrior]

Just hate all the opinions based on ‘experience’ of teaching one or two people to shoot.  

 

The Op is asking for a light walking gun for rabbits and woodcock.  people are suggesting 12s with small loads 21g mostly come in in 7.5 8s not really a rabbit load.  20 bore easy to find 24g 6s 28 bore 16-21g of 6 easy to get can even up load if wanted as well being much better suited to rabbits.

 

 

 

On 07/05/2018 at 11:52, Scully said:

  Sorry, we seem to have put your nose out by trying to help, but the OP asked for 'thoughts', which we have offered. Of course the 'thoughts' you have shared make complete sense, and are totally relevant, but in future perhaps us mere shooters should leave the experts only to pass on their opinions. I was commenting mostly on the bore, based on many years of passing on my experience to youngsters and beginners in general. 

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by welshwarrior