ditchman Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 It looks like that this will be made a crime..attracting a possible 2 year sentence..! how will the Scots handle Upkilting..........?......the perpitraitors will be given 2 years councilling ...ugh. but seriously will it be considered the same crime ?.or will the English law have to be modified by the Scottish parliament, to suit the Scottish form of dress...or will it be only a crime against women...in that case it would be sexist David Beckham wore a skirt for fashion week many years ago..............making this law opens up a can of worms..in this day and age sooo many things need to be taken into consideration....sexism...human rights.....the ammount of clothing worn under a skirt (if any) will it all attract different sentences ? who the hell would want to write this law up...................what started off as a common decent idea...law..........now turns everything into a complicated farce oh for the good old days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 Surely a way of wording the bill could be found to outlaw any use of a photographic machine to gain private shots of either male or female without their knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 I’m always of the opinion that once we introduce legislation we’ve lost, but if people can’t understand that it’s wrong to hold your phone below a woman’s skirt line to try and snap a picture of her knickers and then post it online, then perhaps we’ve got no choice, and we sink a little further into depravity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 I'd better say goodbye then. Been doing it since I was able to walk. Mind you I've never bother taking picture's so maybe not an offence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 Would anyone want to look up a scotsman's kilt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted June 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 35 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Surely a way of wording the bill could be found to outlaw any use of a photographic machine to gain private shots of either male or female without their knowledge. now thats more "level" thinking.....................................and everyone continues to castigate the MP who shouted "object".....he was right to do so...laws like this or any other cant be left to MP's to make..........they have to be thought thro' 1 minute ago, walshie said: Would anyone want to look up a scotsman's kilt? not unless you wanted councilling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 The devil as always in the detail, before you can produce a bill that's actually workable the act has to define what constitutes upskirting, when it constitutes a offence etc in meticulous detail, chapter and verse. The trouble will be they will just ban upskirting with no definition of what it means. We in the shooting world know all about the perils of poorly worded legislation 42 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Surely a way of wording the bill could be found to outlaw any use of a photographic machine to gain private shots of either male or female without their knowledge. If you did that nobody would be able to take holiday shots with anybody else in the background, that's virtually impossible. You couldn't use security cameras etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted June 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 is a crime .....different from an offence...............? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Scully said: I’m always of the opinion that once we introduce legislation we’ve lost, but if people can’t understand that it’s wrong to hold your phone below a woman’s skirt line to try and snap a picture of her knickers and then post it online, then perhaps we’ve got no choice, and we sink a little further into depravity. Totally agree ? Only some kind of perv would sink so low as to do this kind of thing. Its a sad world we live in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 3 hours ago, ditchman said: is a crime .....different from an offence...............? You could open a big can of worms with that question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 The key word is "offence", and whether it is covered by civil law or criminal law. That's how we have civil offences and criminal offences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted June 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Zapp said: The key word is "offence", and whether it is covered by civil law or criminal law. That's how we have civil offences and criminal offences. so should the bill/law be a civil offence or a criminal offence.......................is it going to be "someones" perception....or is there a strict guideline as to classification............... dont get me wrong ..i think this is a truly pathetic act to carry out.....im just interested in how they are going to acheive a law that fits the act... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 Criminal - i's already dealt with under Scottish law as criminal voyeurism which is a sex offence so the same tests would probably be applied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 Sexual Offences (Scotland) Act 2009 Section 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston72 Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 7 hours ago, walshie said: Would anyone want to look up a scotsman's kilt? erm yes 7 hours ago, Scully said: I’m always of the opinion that once we introduce legislation we’ve lost, but if people can’t understand that it’s wrong to hold your phone below a woman’s skirt line to try and snap a picture of her knickers and then post it online, then perhaps we’ve got no choice, and we sink a little further into depravity. Ditchman, are you reading this? i know your hobby is gonna be quashed but come on man, stick to fat Sarah, you wont see her ****** for the thighs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 7 hours ago, Scully said: I’m always of the opinion that once we introduce legislation we’ve lost, but if people can’t understand that it’s wrong to hold your phone below a woman’s skirt line to try and snap a picture of her knickers and then post it online, then perhaps we’ve got no choice, and we sink a little further into depravity. absolutely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted June 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, Winston72 said: erm yes Ditchman, are you reading this? i know your hobby is gonna be quashed but come on man, stick to fat Sarah, you wont see her ****** for the thighs my boy ...............its been a long while since the "promised land" was glimpsed in that neck of the woods.....and not by me either.....i dont believe the individual who glinpsed it is still alive today............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 7 hours ago, Scully said: I’m always of the opinion that once we introduce legislation we’ve lost, but if people can’t understand that it’s wrong to hold your phone below a woman’s skirt line to try and snap a picture of her knickers and then post it online, then perhaps we’ve got no choice, and we sink a little further into depravity. This pretty much sums it up for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 I believe from the draft wording that it would be non gender specific and would entail taking a photo of inside someone's clothing without their consent so the kilt example would count however if you bent over and showed the world your assets that would not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockySpears Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 22 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Surely a way of wording the bill could be found to outlaw any use of a photographic machine to gain private shots of either male or female without their knowledge. Do we not have laws on voyeurism already? Do we need a law for every single act? take using mobile phones while driving: Why have a new new law? Is it not "driving without due care and attention"? Maybe they need to keep making new laws to justify their jobs. Gun laws should be: "Do not shoot any one or any thing that you do not have a legal right to shoot. Do not shoot in an area where is could harm others or their property." Penalty - Min. 5 years, no upper limit. Done, RS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, RockySpears said: Do we not have laws on voyeurism already? Do we need a law for every single act? We do have a law which covers voyeurism, the Sexual Offences Act 2003. The problem is that upskirting is not currently captured in the definition of voyeurism for England, Wales and Northern Ireland in the same way as in Scotland. The purpose of the bill is to include it in the act, so it's not a new law, it's an existing law being amended to take a new offence into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockySpears Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, Zapp said: it's an existing law being amended to take a new offence into account. By whose definition is looking up a ladies skirt with a camera not "Voyeurism"? How different is it from peeking in a bedroom window and I'm sure that is covered. The law is too complicated if these two things are not treated the same, RS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 22 minutes ago, RockySpears said: By whose definition is looking up a ladies skirt with a camera not "Voyeurism"? How different is it from peeking in a bedroom window and I'm sure that is covered. The law is too complicated if these two things are not treated the same, RS Whoever drafted the Sexual Offences Act 2003, hence the need for an amendment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted June 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 christ this is complicated......................i think it wasnt well thought out when the labour benches shouted "shame" at the conservertive bench because the MP ...and i well believe rightly so.blocked this commons bill................he well knew it was beyond the caperbilites of 90% of MP's in the house...to understand the process and to have the intelligence to bring a law forth..............in a non knee jerk manner... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockySpears Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 1 hour ago, ditchman said: christ this is complicated......................i think it wasnt well thought out when the labour benches shouted "shame" at the conservertive bench because the MP ...and i well believe rightly so.blocked this commons bill................he well knew it was beyond the caperbilites of 90% of MP's in the house...to understand the process and to have the intelligence to bring a law forth..............in a non knee jerk manner... This ⬆️ + 100 RS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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