Steel through tight chokes and ‘older’ guns?

[wildfowler.250]

So anecdotally I’ve akways heard ‘half’ choke for steel and stuck with that in the semi-auto = no problems.

 

Now I’ve no idea where the half choke idea initially came from? Is it a cartridge manufacturers recommendation? 

 

Certainly I know my brother regularly shoots Gamebore mammoths through a 3/4 choke because that’s what he’s found the best results with and not had any issues. With these new aftermarket chokes available as well, is the old thought of a half choke as a maximum still valid?

 

I know a lot of folk also talk about guns being ‘steel proofed’. I appreciate it’s harder than lead but is it really likely to do much damage to a ‘standard’ O/U or SBS? Obviously I’m not talking about expensive guns here but just your average sub £500 shotgun which is a utility anyway.

 

Interested to see what folk on here think? I’ve never given it huge amounts of thought  but I’m gradually getting a bit bored of the old plastic shotguns and lack of charm.

 

I feel like responses will probably vary from “it’ll be fine” to “absolutely not” but I’m interested to see what people think as cartrdges have improved since steel first became the norm over here.

 

Cheers

[Fen tiger]

Yes i use steel through older fixed choke guns, i was strongly advised against it despite the fact i was having no issues  i did read all the guidance and came to the conclusion i would safeley carry on doing what i had been doing for years.

Do your  research draw your own conclusion thats my advice.

[Harnser]

The main reason that it advisable not to shoot steel through more than half choke is because steel will not compress like lead will . The tighter the choke the more chance of ring bulging the barrel . All steel proof means is that the gun has survived a proof firing for steel shot .it doesn’t mean the gun barrel will not be damaged if to tight a choke is used . 

Harnser

[figgy]

As above , also if the steel shot does come through a wad and contact the barrel the steel proof will have nothing to do with any scoring damage to barrel or choke.

I would never put steel through any gun i valued for monetary or sentimental, if its means something to you plenty of alternatives.

[Harnser]

51 minutes ago, figgy said:

As above , also if the steel shot does come through a wad and contact the barrel the steel proof will have nothing to do with any scoring damage to barrel or choke.

I would never put steel through any gun i valued for monetary or sentimental, if its means something to you plenty of alternatives.

+1 

harnser

[motty]

Despite all the scare stories, I have yet to meet anyone that has had a gun ruined by steel shot. I use it in a couple of fixed full choked guns ( non steel proofed) and a few full/super full multi choked guns (not all steel proofed).

I like Terror chokes and tight Brileys.

[Fen tiger]

44 minutes ago, motty said:

Despite all the scare stories, I have yet to meet anyone that has had a gun ruined by steel shot. I use it in a couple of fixed full choked guns ( non steel proofed) and a few full/super full multi choked guns (not all steel proofed).

I like Terror chokes and tight Brileys.

+1

[Big Mat]

The same example of steel shot damage gets brought out time and time again, then there is a "mate" whos a gunsmith who sees damage all the time. There is no solid evidence being shown about the damage.

Hundreds ( if not thousands ) of fowlers use steel in full chokes, and through older guns, with no damage. It's up to the individual to choose. Too much scaremongering.

2 hours ago, figgy said:

As above , also if the steel shot does come through a wad and contact the barrel the steel proof will have nothing to do with any scoring damage to barrel or choke.

I would never put steel through any gun i valued for monetary or sentimental, if its means something to you plenty of alternatives.

 

One of these days I'm going to fire some steel through a full choked non steel proof gun, measuring the bore at the muzzle before and after say 10 shots. I'll measure it down to the 10s of microns just to be accurate. 

 

Then i'll fire steel shot through it without a enclosing wad, just to see what really happens.

 

If any one wants to donate a cheap 3" single barrel then feel free!

[islandgun]

4 hours ago, figgy said:

As above , also if the steel shot does come through a wad and contact the barrel the steel proof will have nothing to do with any scoring damage to barrel or choke.

I would never put steel through any gun i valued for monetary or sentimental, if its means something to you plenty of alternatives.

Thats how i feel, would you put steel through a full choke H&H ? I have a an old T Wild but dont use steel with it, just bismuth, itx or lead]   

edit to say i do load steel for my fixed choke Spanish SbS 10 though

Edited August 19, 2018 by islandgun

[Fen tiger]

 English guns still work on steel if not Damascus or super delicate antiques any typical spec english game gun or magnum should be fine, I know where there is a im guessing pre war box lock BSA magnum 3 inch non ejector, thats had thousands of steel rounds through it over the past 15 years its choked open Ic in one barrel and not quite full in the tight barrel its original and my old more &Wright micrometer as shown No wear in all that time its still 0.698 same as when it was on lead all those years ago. I know of a webley 700 2 3/4 inch thats fired thousands of factory duck loads steel over the last ten years again its fine.

[wildfowler.250]

1 hour ago, motty said:

Despite all the scare stories, I have yet to meet anyone that has had a gun ruined by steel shot. I use it in a couple of fixed full choked guns ( non steel proofed) and a few full/super full multi choked guns (not all steel proofed).

I like Terror chokes and tight Brileys.

This is generally my impression..

 

 

Cheers for all the replies! Certainly seems to be a lot of variation between responses which I kind of suspected. No sentimental value in the gun so not worried from that point of view..

3 hours ago, Harnser said:

The main reason that it advisable not to shoot steel through more than half choke is because steel will not compress like lead will . The tighter the choke the more chance of ring bulging the barrel . All steel proof means is that the gun has survived a proof firing for steel shot .it doesn’t mean the gun barrel will not be damaged if to tight a choke is used . 

Harnser

Hadn’t thought about it this way to be honest. Worst case scenario, you’ve ruined a set of barrels? They’re unlikely to do much more than bulge?

[Scully]

I've used Gamebore Super Steel 4's in several old Winchester 101's for ducks and geese over many years, and through a Browning 2000 with 3/4 choke with no untoward issues. 

[Dave at kelton]

Also depends on your choke and shot size. If you buy the kicks choke which constrict beyond the barrel itself it is not the gun you are damaging and in any event they are made for steel. I use both half and full kicks in 10b with large shot. Technically the larger shot sizes should be used with lighter chokes for the reasons above.

in my benelli 12 I use factory half and have killed some cracking geese.

As always every gun, choke and cartridge pattern differently so test them first starting with a light choke. You might not need anything tight.

[wildfowler.250]

5 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said:

 You might not need anything tight.

It’s more a case of the gun being full and full so not a huge option to change. Could always open it up but seems an extra cost if not essential

[mudpatten]

https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id=723

Hopefully this will help put the half choke business into perspective. Standard velocity steel cartridges are made to be fired through all chokes up to full and the mention of half choke is in the context of shot size.

I`ve used an AYA Yeoman for a couple of seasons with the original half and full boring and this season I`m using a 3" sbs bored half and quarter, solely because I find that, when heavily choked, steel produces patterns too tight to fill my bag.

 

[grahamch]

To avoid the issue you could always use something other than steel shot

[motty]

3 hours ago, wildfowler.250 said:

It’s more a case of the gun being full and full so not a huge option to change. Could always open it up but seems an extra cost if not essential

I think you will be absolutely fine with your Normal steel 1s. I have used Gamebore Rhino BBs through my full/full Kestrel 10 s/s, and homeloaded 1s through my full/full Fausti 10 o/u. Both guns are still in excellent condition.

 

 

[wildfowler.250]

4 hours ago, mudpatten said:

https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id=723

Hopefully this will help put the half choke business into perspective. Standard velocity steel cartridges are made to be fired through all chokes up to full and the mention of half choke is in the context of shot size.

I`ve used an AYA Yeoman for a couple of seasons with the original half and full boring and this season I`m using a 3" sbs bored half and quarter, solely because I find that, when heavily choked, steel produces patterns too tight to fill my bag.

 

Thanks for that, and helpful link!

2 hours ago, grahamch said:

To avoid the issue you could always use something other than steel shot

I did look into this but with the volume of shells I go through in a season, costs would be an issue alone and I don’t homeload. Appreciate the suggestion though!

2 hours ago, motty said:

I think you will be absolutely fine with your Normal steel 1s. I have used Gamebore Rhino BBs through my full/full Kestrel 10 s/s, and homeloaded 1s through my full/full Fausti 10 o/u. Both guns are still in excellent condition.

 

 

Thanks for that. Certainly the answer hasn’t been a conclusive no so I’ll probably give it a try!

[figgy]

If it was just a cheap gun i wouldn't hesitate to put any size steel through it. If it ring bulged i would either cut the barrel down if near the chokes or scrap it.

[Proudly]

I have a Baikal s/s which I believe is full & extra full choked reading up on the model I have. I’m not in the position to buy a steel proofed gun atm so would like to use this for wildfowling. I only paid £50 for it so no big deal if it gets damaged. I’ve read the possibility of using standard steel shells instead of super steel? Question being where can I buy standard steel shells & would it be ok to use them? What would be the cost to have the barrels shortened to remove the chokes? 

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Why spoil the gun by removing the choking? Buy some steel shells and pattern them over the distance you intend to shoot until you find a pattern you can work with.

As to where you can buy suitable steel cartridges we need to know where you are first.

[Fen tiger]

6 hours ago, Proudly said:

I have a Baikal s/s which I believe is full & extra full choked reading up on the model I have. I’m not in the position to buy a steel proofed gun atm so would like to use this for wildfowling. I only paid £50 for it so no big deal if it gets damaged. I’ve read the possibility of using standard steel shells instead of super steel? Question being where can I buy standard steel shells & would it be ok to use them? What would be the cost to have the barrels shortened to remove the chokes? 

 

Baikals mod 58 and the later 430s are all chrome barrels they will handle steel no problem. I have an old Baikal 611 O/U Double trigger ejector it will have been sold many years ago when sportsmarketing imported them, it is full and fuller and steel is fine through it you will be fine with steel in that gun.

[Proudly]

It is the IJ 58 I have, I am based near Newcastle upon Tyne. Thanks