Jump to content
TIGHTCHOKE

No Jail for Moderate Crime Convictions

    Recommended Posts

    2 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

    Or change the 6 months for 100 lashes like they do in Singapore. 

    I'm OK with swapping 6mths for the birch...:yes:

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    10 hours ago, mel b3 said:

    I agree that the correct community sentence would be better at reducing crime than very short prison sentences.

    If you're caught shoplifting, you should spend a few days sitting in the stocks at your local town centre ,in front of the whole community. 

    If your caught burgling a house , you should be horse whipped in your local town centre, in front of the whole community. 

     

    I like your thinking!

    10 hours ago, henry d said:

    Send them to the colonies!

    Albania?

    9 hours ago, CaptainBeaky said:

    Doesn't that come under "cruel and unusual punishment"? 😒

    Could be worse..............Milton Keynes?

    8 hours ago, Len2016 said:

    i bet i could cure a lot of crime if they shoplift  cut off one forfinger if they rob houses three fingers  as first ofenders if they re offendone hand offif they go to bigger crime off with one foot ifthey rape or harm a police officer then no mercy the most painfull death in publick and on all tv ch anels so every one can see  all the gory bitscrime would cut down over night and a lot of migrants would not want to come here for easy pickingsrant over cheers len

    Are you sure you are not going a bit soft on them, Len?

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Build a supermax prison on one of the more remote Falkland Islands, (or better still, put them under canvass there!)  6,000 miles from home, and surrounded by the coldest waters on the planet. Supplies dropped in by parachute..............no TV,  etc...........just lots of sheep!

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    It is said that you can tell how civilised a country is by the way that they treat offenders. We must be the most civilised country in the world . Prison in this country is not intended as a punishment but a means to rehabilitate offenders .

    harnser

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    10 minutes ago, Harnser said:

    Prison in this country is not intended as a punishment but a means to rehabilitate offenders .

    where it is failing spectacularly.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Instead of community service send them to do real hard labour, get some of the unused pits working again and send them to the coalface, they won't be able to run off far and they'll actually be providing a product which has value so can contribute back to the state.

     

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    9 hours ago, Len2016 said:

    i bet i could cure a lot of crime if they shoplift  cut off one forfinger if they rob houses three fingers  as first ofenders if they re offendone hand offif they go to bigger crime off with one foot ifthey rape or harm a police officer then no mercy the most painfull death in publick and on all tv ch anels so every one can see  all the gory bitscrime would cut down over night and a lot of migrants would not want to come here for easy pickingsrant over cheers len

    No one is gonna back you mate, because then they would have to admit they would have become more like the countries they don`t like, come on man think about it!

    1 hour ago, pinfireman said:

    Build a supermax prison on one of the more remote Falkland Islands, (or better still, put them under canvass there!)  6,000 miles from home, and surrounded by the coldest waters on the planet. Supplies dropped in by parachute..............no TV,  etc...........just lots of sheep!

    Why there? Why not your back yard? NIMBYism?

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    2 hours ago, Harnser said:

    It is said that you can tell how civilised a country is by the way that they treat offenders. We must be the most civilised country in the world . Prison in this country is not intended as a punishment but a means to rehabilitate offenders .

    harnser

    And who gets to decide thats a correct assessment? 

    Maybe prison should be a punishment instead of so called rehabilitation, which almost never works, it might actually work as a deterrent then. 

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    19 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

    And who gets to decide thats a correct assessment? 

    Maybe prison should be a punishment instead of so called rehabilitation, which almost never works, it might actually work as a deterrent then. 

    This again...

    Based in recidivism rates, the rehabilitative approach is demonstrably working in Scandinavian and other countries such as the Netherlands.  The punitive/penal approach is demonstrably failing in the US.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    1 minute ago, Zapp said:

    This again...

    The rehabilitative approach is demonstrably working in Scandinavian countries.  The punitive/penal approach is demonstrably failing in the US.

    aaaahhhhhh at last a voice of reason 👍

    Down side is it costs cash up front for a return down the line. 

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    2 minutes ago, oowee said:

    aaaahhhhhh at last a voice of reason 👍

    Down side is it costs cash up front for a return down the line. 

    It does, which is one of the reasons our system has been in such trouble of late in my opinion.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    1 hour ago, Zapp said:

    This again...

    Based in recidivism rates, the rehabilitative approach is demonstrably working in Scandinavian and other countries such as the Netherlands.  The punitive/penal approach is demonstrably failing in the US.

    You can of course take a different view but I would strongly disagree, the American system is very different altogether. My point is for offenders who constantly offend they should simply be taken out of society, we throw millions at rehabilitation and the reoffending rates are still as high as about 80% within the first year of release which means likely higher, as they will probably have committed multiple crimes before they are caught again, for instance quite what anyone thinks can be done to rehabilitate someone who is happy to stab someone over nothing is beyond me, the simply don't care and likely never will. 

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Like the 3 strikes rule? That's hardly driving crime rates down where it is in force.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    2 minutes ago, Zapp said:

    Like the 3 strikes rule? That's hardly driving crime rates down where it is in force.

    Take a look at the IPP sentence, it was our sentence with the lowest reoffending rate, but got banned as it breached ECHR law, I have spoken to many thousands of prisoners and they were petrified of being given an indeterminate sentence and helped prevent many from reoffending for fear of being given it the next time, it also stopped many innocent people from being harmed. Unfortunately there are some in society who are beyond help, not all, but too many prisoners will never stop offending no matter what is done to help them. 

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    12 hours ago, walshie said:

    We can build more houses because we have (way) too many people, yet we have way too many criminals and the answer is not to build more prisons, but to effectively let them off. Community service? The crims must be laughing their heads off as they burgle our houses.

    Sooner or later they’ll just make it legal to burgle houses and rob people. 

    Boom! Crime numbers drop dramatically. 

    Then the government will be up there shouting about how they have drastically reduced crime 😂😂😂

     

    Cant have any crime if you make everything legal! I joke but you never know!! 

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    3 hours ago, henry d said:

    No one is gonna back you mate, because then they would have to admit they would have become more like the countries they don`t like, come on man think about it!

    Why there? Why not your back yard? NIMBYism?

    We could put them in your backyard..................not much different than the Falklands? But you, no doubt, would want them kept nice and warm and comfortable, ?

    3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

    And who gets to decide thats a correct assessment? 

    Maybe prison should be a punishment instead of so called rehabilitation, which almost never works, it might actually work as a deterrent then. 

    How many get rehabilitated? Very few! Harsh punishment first, then rehabilitate them!

    3 hours ago, Zapp said:

    This again...

    Based in recidivism rates, the rehabilitative approach is demonstrably working in Scandinavian and other countries such as the Netherlands.  The punitive/penal approach is demonstrably failing in the US.

    But it does NOT work here!

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    1 hour ago, Zapp said:

    Like the 3 strikes rule? That's hardly driving crime rates down where it is in force.

    The operative term is "where it is in force"!  It,s hardley EVER in force, and that,s the problem! Having been on the end of a catastrophic burglarly, which almost cost me my home, and put me within an inch of bankruptcy,  I am not inclined to be soft with them! The two 17 year old burglars, when eventually caught, were charged with 3 offences, and "asked" for another 167 to be taken in consideration! They got 6 months in a Young Offenders "prison"! Out in 3 !  A couple of years later, I "happened" to bump into one of them one evening, and  I told him he was a very naughty boy, and I believe I must have "rehabilitated " him, he,s never tried to burgle me again!

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    12 minutes ago, pinfireman said:

     

    But it does NOT work here!

    I think the point was that places like the Netherlands and Scandinavia actually do rehabilitate their offenders. 

    Despite us claiming we focus on rehabilitation, with prisons understaffed and under resourced there isn’t really any on offer, hence we don’t see any of the positive results!! 

     

    It costs a big amount of investment to properly rehabilitate people and give them other legitimate options in life.

     

    I once worked with a youngish lad, father died suddenly before the young lad could even walk, mother hit the drink hard. 

    Young lad never taken to school, never shows support, ended up barely able to read and write. 

    Drug dealers and gang members seek out these CHILDREN, much like the grooming gangs in Rochedale etc seek out vulnerable girls, these gangs seek out these lads, they “help them out”, pay them good money and start them off delivering unknown packages, and next thing selling drugs for them. 

     

    These children are out there making hundreds of pounds a day, when they couldn’t even get a legitimate job in KFC because they can’t add up small change or read ... how are you going to tell them to straighten up and fly straight?! 

    Your living on a different planet than what some of these people experience. 

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    8 hours ago, pinfireman said:

    But it does NOT work here!

    I know, and said as much in the post after the one you quoted 

    Our prisons and probation services are overcrowded, underfunded and understaffed which goes a long way to explaining why we are in the state we are in, and makes it extremely hard to do anything except keep a lid on a lot if them.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Short term government leads to short term populist policy. Walls, migrants, offenders its everyone else's fault except ours.

    Running a country and in particular the finances of a country is not the same as a household budget. Long term investment will pay long term dividends but anything with a projected outcome beyond an electoral terms is a non no in the UK.  

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    You are making a big assumption in believing that a lot of offenders are capable of being rehabilitated or hold any desire to be rehabilitated. Many are very happy living exactly the way they do right now.

    Obviously that's not all of them but don't get caught in the trap of believing there is a one size fits all solution to all this 

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Wouldnt that just be exactly the same assumption, but in reverse?  Except the argument I put forward is supported by evidence in the cases of of the countries I've mentioned where they have spent the money.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    55 minutes ago, oowee said:

    Short term government leads to short term populist policy. Walls, migrants, offenders its everyone else's fault except ours.

    Running a country and in particular the finances of a country is not the same as a household budget. Long term investment will pay long term dividends but anything with a projected outcome beyond an electoral terms is a non no in the UK.  

    And here we hit the crux of the matter. There is no quick fix, but rather a long drawn out campaign of consistency, possibly over generations. We are not going to fix a generational trend for black on black stabbings overnight.....and no, it's not a recent trend.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    The Netherlands and other Scandinavian countries are unique, for instance, they have very low crime rates per head of population and I'm going to make a guess that they don't suffer from the same level of social and cultural problems we have in this country that will obviously lead to crime, its only a guess and I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong I have very little knowledge of the system over there, unlike here. 

    The American system mainly falls down due to there being very little support for prisoners, unlike the UK, when released, if you release a prisoner out of jail and they have nowhere to live, no job and no money, they will obviously turn back to crime very quickly, that is a totally sepreate issue to the UK, the three strikes and your out system if used correctly is very effective at stopping reoffending, how can anyone reoffend if they are never released? We had a better system than that here which had a loose similarly in that life sentences could be given to criminals who would otherwise been let out in a year or two, it had the lowest reoffending rate of all sentences and I believe was about half of the next lowest, so that proves that long sentences can be very effective when used proportionately, unfortunately it was deemed unlawful and has been banned under the ECHR. 

    No amount of money in the world can prevent someone who cares for nothing and no one but themselve, similar to treating alcoholism, the person would need to want to stop for there to be any hope of them stopping drinking, the problem is the vast majority of criminals once they reach adulthood have no intention of stopping and never will. 

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an account

    Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

    Register a new account

    Sign in

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now

    • Recently Browsing   0 members

      No registered users viewing this page.

    ×