Teds progress

[B725]

Will Ted not sit as you are shooting? , you could with the help of a friend sit him up and shoot at a load of dummies you will then be able to judge if you could take him with you. 

[Lloyd90]

6 hours ago, B725 said:

Will Ted not sit as you are shooting? , you could with the help of a friend sit him up and shoot at a load of dummies you will then be able to judge if you could take him with you. 

 

Yes he would do although if he does run in it will be a bloody pain as may ruin the drive etc. 

My Mrs May come along to the odd shoot though and stand with him so I can shoot and someone is keeping a close eye on him. 

 

I would put him on a tether but then I think that teaches the dog nothing. 

[JDog]

21 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

Yes he would do although if he does run in it will be a bloody pain as may ruin the drive etc. 

My Mrs May come along to the odd shoot though and stand with him so I can shoot and someone is keeping a close eye on him. 

 

I would put him on a tether but then I think that teaches the dog nothing. 

I disagree with your last comment.

A dog on a lead tethered to a stick or screw cannot run in. That teaches a dog that it can go nowhere without your instruction.

[B725]

Every dog I've seen tied to a Cork screw has done nowt but whine. A long line may be different as it can only go so far then I suppose its like auto correction I must have been very lucky as I've never used either. 

[JDog]

21 minutes ago, B725 said:

Every dog I've seen tied to a Cork screw has done nowt but whine. A long line may be different as it can only go so far then I suppose its like auto correction I must have been very lucky as I've never used either. 

Running in and whining are two different problems.

[Lloyd90]

2 hours ago, JDog said:

I disagree with your last comment.

A dog on a lead tethered to a stick or screw cannot run in. That teaches a dog that it can go nowhere without your instruction.

Yes but it doesn’t teach the dog not to be steady off the lead I don’t think 🤔 

[B725]

I agree with you Lloyd it won't teach the dog to sit without a lead, from what I've seen tying a dog down that's excited just encourages it to whine. 

[London Best]

Tethering a dog merely teaches it that it cannot run in whilst tethered.

[JDog]

I have seen too many people with dogs who think that their dog will never run in or be unsteady. Many do. They cannot run in if they are on a secure tether or on a lead in their handler's hands.

[B725]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

Tethering a dog merely teaches it that it cannot run in whilst tethered.

But that's all it, doesn't teach it not to run in when not tethered. 

[Old farrier]

22 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

Yes he would do although if he does run in it will be a bloody pain as may ruin the drive etc. 

My Mrs May come along to the odd shoot though and stand with him so I can shoot and someone is keeping a close eye on him. 

 

I would put him on a tether but then I think that teaches the dog nothing. 

Or you could leave him behind 

training a dog to be steady and a days shooting are two separate things   Don’t honestly think you should do both 

either take him and stand next to the gun shooting or shoot without him your concentration should be on the dog at this stage of the training 

[Lloyd90]

11 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Or you could leave him behind 

training a dog to be steady and a days shooting are two separate things   Don’t honestly think you should do both 

either take him and stand next to the gun shooting or shoot without him your concentration should be on the dog at this stage of the training 

 

Hence why my partner was going to come and stand with him whilst I shoot  most likely on the lead to begin with. 

The dog certainly won't learn to be steady when sat in the house. 

 

 

[B725]

You could put a shooting dvd on for Ted to watch while your shooting 😂😂😂

[Lloyd90]

6 minutes ago, B725 said:

You could put a shooting dvd on for Ted to watch while your shooting 😂😂😂

 

 

Don't laugh! We often sit in the garage (my man shed) with him sat on my lap, watching one of the spaniel championship dvd's or a training film!!!! 

So far, he hasn't been all that bad training wise so maybe it help ...

[London Best]

19 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Or you could leave him behind 

training a dog to be steady and a days shooting are two separate things   Don’t honestly think you should do both 

either take him and stand next to the gun shooting or shoot without him your concentration should be on the dog at this stage of the training 

Quite correct, but there comes a point when the dog has to make the transition from training to shooting proper thence to being a proper peg dog. Always a difficult time. I never use a dog on my own peg for the first season. Current trainee is a bit nervy/hyper and may not make peg dog in her second season, despite having been totally steady last season picking up on days up to 400 head. Big difference sitting in the line compared to standing 2/300 yards back.

[Old farrier]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

Hence why my partner was going to come and stand with him whilst I shoot  most likely on the lead to begin with. 

The dog certainly won't learn to be steady when sat in the house. 

 

 

Still thinking you should get someone else to shoot 

enabling you to stand with him off the lead And give him 100% concentration 

theres a lot of difference between steady to flush and steady to birds raining down and bouncing off the ground two feet away 

I agree there has to be a day when you have him and shoot but I doubt it’ll be the first few times in the line 

I doubt he will learn to be steady on a lead with someone else holding him either 

[Lloyd90]

56 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Still thinking you should get someone else to shoot 

enabling you to stand with him off the lead And give him 100% concentration 

theres a lot of difference between steady to flush and steady to birds raining down and bouncing off the ground two feet away 

I agree there has to be a day when you have him and shoot but I doubt it’ll be the first few times in the line 

I doubt he will learn to be steady on a lead with someone else holding him either 

 

Oh, I am only shooting myself every other week, on alternating weeks I am taking him beating on a small shoot near me, and will also be able to stand back with him off lead watching the shot and hopefully birds drop. Although hunting and flushing under control are my main aims for this session. 

We are constantly drilling steadiness, whilst also trying to put drive, speed and game finding skills into a dog, it is a constant balancing act. 

[macca2017]

Next season, why not try joining a walk one stand one syndicate, alternating shooting then beating the next drive.

[oowee]

Bring him out with me. I have some cracking walked up pheasant shooting and it would be good to see him in action. I had mine on a blood trail up there yesterday it was like following a trail in a pheasant pen. 🙂 

Any fopars running in or otherwise would not be a problem. I can keep mine on a lead unless he needs to pick up. Mine might learn that all birds are not his at the same time. 

[scutt]

I hav'nt followed this thread just dipped in and out so if I am repeating someone just ignore me .Steady switching off and patience can be helped along by training  with others you take turns for retrieves while your dog looks on and as always collect a few of the dummies yourself. The patience has to come from you when you command the dog to sit / stay and you walk away if it moves don't make a fuss just move it back to the position you left it at, time and time again bite your lip and keep on keeping on the dog will get the message .What I am saying you don't have  one method  but lots during training .Go back to basics sit stay ,throwing dummies around the dog , collecting them yourself  counting to 50 before moving of on a hunt exercise then to a 100 then maybe 200

hope you get my drift cos I am not very good at explaining things 😁     

[figgy]

You train train and train and your dog seems perfect, until shoot day then all of the training goes out of the window. Complete different environment.

Best if you can take him on shoots stand behind a gun and keep him steady. He can see learn all that goes on. My dog can be fine for ages then just gets it into his head he wants to pick birds up. Sometimes I will tether mine as in his lead goes on my stick and the stick gets pushed in further. He goes to run and cant, gets ####ed and put back in his place. I think it teaches them.they can't get away with it. If they get away with running in and get ####ed after, they learn if you can't get a hold of them to stop them they can do as they please.

I take my dog back to basics all the time, tonight on a walk let him off on a strip of grass between houses, he was fine turning to me  whistling and sitting up and recalling. Untill he scented something along a garden fence line and when whistled kept going for another twenty yards after being recalled. Came back and knew he did wrong, his face was guilty. His fun was stopped and all the way home I kept making him sit repeatedly stay and then come to me. He will do as he's told  even though he's seven coming up.eight in February. 

Only have to watch some of the top dog boys shoot videos when it goes wrong and one of their dogs runs on hare or rabbit after being recalled. They are animals not robots after all.

[redleg in kale]

Lloyd no criticism intended, over the last eight /nine months you and ted have come  on leaps and bounds in both learning and mistakes, now you have come to a point you have to decide trialing or shooting dog .make no mistake they are both different animals  . field trialing  you will always be on the very edge that's the way the spaniel is trained ,as they say a failed trialing dog  can make a excellent shooting dog but not vice versa , you have put a lot of work into ted upto now go along the trialing lines he is still a young dog if he does not make it youll have a good shooting dog just don't mix them both at this stage in his training.  

[Lloyd90]

18 hours ago, redleg in kale said:

Lloyd no criticism intended, over the last eight /nine months you and ted have come  on leaps and bounds in both learning and mistakes, now you have come to a point you have to decide trialing or shooting dog .make no mistake they are both different animals  . field trialing  you will always be on the very edge that's the way the spaniel is trained ,as they say a failed trialing dog  can make a excellent shooting dog but not vice versa , you have put a lot of work into ted upto now go along the trialing lines he is still a young dog if he does not make it youll have a good shooting dog just don't mix them both at this stage in his training.  

Yes mate I have seen some great dogs trialling... what do you mean when you go different ways however? 

At this moment, I am wondering if he will be a failed shoot dog 😞 ...  lol, had a bit of a **** day will type it up now. 

[B725]

Have faith Lloyd you have done good so far, I'm intreauged so will have to wait for your report. 

[Lloyd90]

Part 24: Beating (My head against the wall!). 

 

Well first day beating on shootingeggs land today ... we all met in the morning, I got up early with Ted and he had some raw green tripe a few hours before heading out, smaller than usual breakfast but something in the tank.

 

Meeting at the shoot we all got prepped and were told there are plenty of birds this year, last year was a bit of a flop and this year was supposed to be looking promising. 

 

Drive 1: We were in some tall cover... I considered taking Ted off or leaving him on the lead (first huge error) ... I took him off the lead and he started off hunting well and sticking close to me, however after about 2 minutes I lost sight of him and he of me. Bit of a panic moment, lots of whistling and calling to Ted and after a few mins he was back at my side... weird moment... I whipped him back on the lead none the wiser... only to be told by two of the guns that he had flushed 3 roe deer right in front of him out of the cover, and given them a good chase, across 2 big fields, and was apparently a good distance away until coming back 😞 ... so off to a great start, and the training looking ruined before we even begin due to my idiot decision. 

 

Drive 2: We were asked to stand back and pick-up any birds dropped off this next drive. We stood by two guns and saw a lot of birds being flushed from the woods and shot at (but not many hit) ... one was down in our field an another in a field further out that was a strong runner. Ted stood by my side on the lead and sat well, marked a bird down and didn't attempt to run in etc (although he was on lead). Once the drive was over he picked the bird dropped in the field and retrieved it back to me to hand... we then went out for a search for the pricked bird, he hunted along a big part of the hedge but no success finding it. We did direct some other more experienced dogs to come over and have a look. 

 

Drive 3: Back on the lead, we pushed down some similar cover to the first drive and I did not let him off, a much better decision this time. We got to the bottom and crossed out of the cover into a bit of woodland with some thicker bushes about, in here I let Ted off for a short run, he hunted nice and close, entered some thick cover bushes and hunted well, he turned on the whistle well and I stopped him 2-3 times, before hunting on. I only hunted him for about 50 yards before stopping and calling him in, and placing him back on the lead. We then walked up to the end of the drive where more birds were being flushed by some of the other dogs and Ted sat well on the lead until finished. 

 

Drive 4:  We were tasked with taking up a long hedgerow towards another wood, which we did with Ted again on the lead as I thought if he goes into the hedgerow he would be out of sight. We worked it up but not many birds in this one. As we got right to the end the hedge joined into a big woodland, I stayed along the edge and worked down... one of the guns I neared informed me that a bird was earlier dropped into a big patch of cover at the end of this wood but not picked. I let Ted off and worked him on the cover as I was right near him, he pushed in and when he came out flushed a cock bird from nearby and sat to the flush well and watched the bird away without moving (although he standing in-between him and the bird surely helped). I then told him to get back in and he hunted it but no bird. I asked the gun again who pointed me to the spot, so I walked Ted up a bit further as there was a big fallen down tree blocking his path and sent him in again, in he went and came out seconds later with the bird in his mouth, which he delivered back to me to hand. 

 

Drive 5: Drive 5 we pushed up a hedgerow, it was super thick and also there was a big fence around the area of ground we were working, I let Ted off here and we worked up but didn't see any birds, I put him back on the lead at the end of the drive to cross into the woods. 

 

Drive 6: The last drive through a big wood, I first walked Ted on the lead until we reached some big cover patches. I let him off and he worked into some thick cover well and flushed several pheasants one after the other, each time stopping well. He flushed maybe 2-3 at first and sat, hunted on and flushed some more and sat and waited, then I hunted him on and he took a line forward, ignored the stop and ******** off down the wood having a jolly 😞 Not bloody again! I went off after him to find he had found either a sick bird of a bird that had been pricked earlier as it would  not flush, so he picked it and was running about with it firmly in his mouth... he picked it and when I caught up to him I recalled and he delivered it to hand very well and released when told, the bird was lively but hadn't flushed and several of the other drives led into this big wood so I can only pray it was pricked and that's why it hadn't flown off. I did not tell Ted off for this as he was back, I just stuck the lead on. 

 

At the end of the drive we went out of the wood with some comedy ribs about how speedy my dog was (*******, but just a bit of fun) ... and was asked to have a look for some birds that had come down in thick cover and could not be picked... As we were out in the open now with nothing else about I did let Ted into a big cover pile that a bird had dropped into, he went in and worked the area well and returned back with a bird which he presented to hand well. I then sent him up 50 yards into the open field where apparently a bird had dropped and they could not find it, and he picked that as well and delivered back to hand well. 

 

 

So overall, two bloody disasters and several good picks. It's nice to pick some of the birds well, but I suppose that's all for nothing if he just ****** off when he chooses now and then, which is very frustrating after all the effort and work I have been putting in.

It's days like this I think I should have just stuck to clay shooting and the dog we got should have just been a bloody cavapoo that she wanted that never leaves the house... life would definitely be a lot easier.