Knife crime.

[Scully]

36 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

You're an advocate of capital punishment?

In certain circumstances, yes. 

[Mice!]

I was watching rugby clips on YouTube yesterday, watching the great Jonah Lomu and at the end of the highlights he was on something with Claire Balding and Steven Gerrard, he said violence was a way of life where he grew up, you quickly learned to protect yourself, but his uncle was beheaded his cousin killed and he himself was stabbed twice!! He said rugby saved him, it allowed an outlet for his frustrations.

Much better to be hitting a tackle bag, punch bag or something similar, the people outside of the education system no doubt need the stick, tougher sentences, minimum two years for carrying, five for using and fifteen for murder, and serve those terms, good behaviour? Who cares you've broken the law do the time.

For those still in the system lots of carrot, break the cycle something needs to be done to make people value their lives and others, people are dying over effectively nothing, such a waste.

[old man]

8 hours ago, Mice! said:

I was watching rugby clips on YouTube yesterday, watching the great Jonah Lomu and at the end of the highlights he was on something with Claire Balding and Steven Gerrard, he said violence was a way of life where he grew up, you quickly learned to protect yourself, but his uncle was beheaded his cousin killed and he himself was stabbed twice!! He said rugby saved him, it allowed an outlet for his frustrations.

Much better to be hitting a tackle bag, punch bag or something similar, the people outside of the education system no doubt need the stick, tougher sentences, minimum two years for carrying, five for using and fifteen for murder, and serve those terms, good behaviour? Who cares you've broken the law do the time.

For those still in the system lots of carrot, break the cycle something needs to be done to make people value their lives and others, people are dying over effectively nothing, such a waste.

Tin Hat firmly in place and a quite unpalatable topic? 

Very sadly I am thinking it might be too late? 

Perpetrators now see a whole society flawed and not working from the top downwards, deciding maybe they should just join in and reap the benefits?

When we have MP's who pervert justice and are allowed to carry on, where does it end for society as a whole? Spiral on down.

[Raja Clavata]

11 hours ago, Scully said:

In certain circumstances, yes. 

Me too, just not part of the UK judiciary system. It's fine where it is as far as I'm concerned and it can stay under the radar.

[Rewulf]

15 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I have no point to make or agenda here. He came across as articulate and whilst I wasn't listening properly (it was on in the background) was he said seemed reasonably sound.

Two things I do wholeheartedly agree with him on is that increased police numbers and harsher sentencing is likely to make ****** all difference to this issue.

He is articulate, the man is extremely intelligent.
But he was asked a straight forward question, is it a race issue ?
He replied that white people murder each other too, and black people dont have a monopoly on violence, its dangerous to say its a black problem.
That wasnt the question though, and no one was saying it was a black problem.

The question was re put as , is it a cultural problem ? He again dodges the question, and blames 'internalised racism' amongst black kids, self hate in effect.
He tries to say that Ghanaian kids dont stab each other until they get to these shores, so its actually British societies fault ?

Heres an interview with the ever slobbery lefty Owen Jones, where Akala blames the colonial British empire for Knife crime, much to the dismay of Jones , who wanted him to blame the tories.
Apparently their mutual adoration of commissar corbyn wasnt enough to change Akalas mind.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/video/2019/mar/18/akala-tells-owen-jones-the-black-on-black-violence-narrative-is-rooted-in-empire

Akala has a lot to say, and along with his sister, have created a platform of activism to get it across, but what are they actually saying ?
What solutions are they advocating ?
On one hand they blame society (duh) ...the tories, yet crime in general has gone down since 2010 , despite police numbers being reduced.
He says stronger sentencing wont help, more police wont help, it needs education ? Well of course it does, but why not stronger sentencing too ?
But this is the problem, he subscribes to that usual liberal idea of 'Its not really their fault' Its someone elses, government, capitalism, schools, racism, the list goes on...

As long as you dont blame the boy behind the blade ?

Heres a solution, Akala wont like it, but try this , 1 year mandatory sentence for every inch of blade you have no good reason for carrying, 12 inch zombie = 12 years inside.
Thats just for carrying, no ifs not buts, give them a month before implementing it to give them a chance to think about it, and watch knife crime figures plummet.

If the mere threat of it saves a few lives, is that not worth it ?

Or we can keep pussy footing around , keep having 'intellectual' conversations about it, and hope it all goes away.

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, old man said:

Tin Hat firmly in place and a quite unpalatable topic? 

Very sadly I am thinking it might be too late? 

Perpetrators now see a whole society flawed and not working from the top downwards, deciding maybe they should just join in and reap the benefits?

When we have MP's who pervert justice and are allowed to carry on, where does it end for society as a whole? Spiral on down.

I know where your coming from old man, but I'm pretty confident that the majority of the people causing these problems ie stabbings, moped muggings, drug running aren't concerned about brexit or discuss politics. There just living very different lives to the likes of us.

[Scully]

7 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Me too, just not part of the UK judiciary system. It's fine where it is as far as I'm concerned and it can stay under the radar.

You’re a mite more considerate than I.

Executed murderers don’t reoffend, nor are they released after a joke ( insult ) of a sentence. 

I couldn’t believe how composed the parents of the murdered teenaged girl were recently. They have my sincere respect, and are much better people than I would be under those circumstances. 

[Raja Clavata]

11 hours ago, Rewulf said:

He is articulate, the man is extremely intelligent.
But he was asked a straight forward question, is it a race issue ?
He replied that white people murder each other too, and black people dont have a monopoly on violence, its dangerous to say its a black problem.
That wasnt the question though, and no one was saying it was a black problem.

The question was re put as , is it a cultural problem ? He again dodges the question, and blames 'internalised racism' amongst black kids, self hate in effect.
He tries to say that Ghanaian kids dont stab each other until they get to these shores, so its actually British societies fault ?

Heres an interview with the ever slobbery lefty Owen Jones, where Akala blames the colonial British empire for Knife crime, much to the dismay of Jones , who wanted him to blame the tories.
Apparently their mutual adoration of commissar corbyn wasnt enough to change Akalas mind.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/video/2019/mar/18/akala-tells-owen-jones-the-black-on-black-violence-narrative-is-rooted-in-empire

Akala has a lot to say, and along with his sister, have created a platform of activism to get it across, but what are they actually saying ?
What solutions are they advocating ?
On one hand they blame society (duh) ...the tories, yet crime in general has gone down since 2010 , despite police numbers being reduced.
He says stronger sentencing wont help, more police wont help, it needs education ? Well of course it does, but why not stronger sentencing too ?
But this is the problem, he subscribes to that usual liberal idea of 'Its not really their fault' Its someone elses, government, capitalism, schools, racism, the list goes on...

As long as you dont blame the boy behind the blade ?

Heres a solution, Akala wont like it, but try this , 1 year mandatory sentence for every inch of blade you have no good reason for carrying, 12 inch zombie = 12 years inside.
Thats just for carrying, no ifs not buts, give them a month before implementing it to give them a chance to think about it, and watch knife crime figures plummet.

If the mere threat of it saves a few lives, is that not worth it ?

Or we can keep pussy footing around , keep having 'intellectual' conversations about it, and hope it all goes away.

He's right about the horrors and injustices of our colonial past but it's not all one sided and it's a bit of a stretch to blame the Empire for all this despite being an oft cited excuse for all manner of things from people of former colonial heritage.

Absolutely agree that we need to get past this notion of the criminals being the victims, people need to be accountable for their decisions and decisions have consequences.

I still think his is a voice worth listening too ideally in a forum where we can extract exactly what it is he is saying and why he thinks harsher sentencing is not the answer for this particular issue.

[McSpredder]

6 hours ago, Scully said:

Executed murderers don’t reoffend.....

.... and there have also been comments in the press about "the judicial culling of murderous DNA from the gene pool"

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-the-death-penalty-killed-our-violent-genes-88g2tl52vtn

[henry d]

17 hours ago, McSpredder said:

.... and there have also been comments in the press about "the judicial culling of murderous DNA from the gene pool"

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-the-death-penalty-killed-our-violent-genes-88g2tl52vtn

Can`t see the whole article, is this about the MAOA-L gene? If so it is worth looking at the Dunedin study, as you also need a history of maltreatment to trigger it.

[henry d]

If you have an hour to spare this is a really good documentary that was shown last night, it was certainly better than the Scottish defence

Stabbed

[Vince Green]

There is an article in the Mail on Sunday about the number of times people caught with knives get let off by the courts. One offender had 21 separate court appearances for possession of a knife before getting a very short custodial sentence. 

His convictions

21 counts  Possession of a bladed weapon

17 counts  Assaulting police officer

33 counts  Common assault

8  counts   Sexual assault

65 counts  Theft

15 counts  Robbery

15 counts  Burglary

30 counts  Drugs

53 counts Fraud

BEFORE HE FINALLY GOT A CUSTODIAL SENTENCE FOR A MUCH MORE SERIOUS ASSAULT

That tells you all you ever need to know. Where is the deterrent in that? 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Vince Green

[victorismyhero]

Frog and ScorpionOnce upon a time there was a frog. One day, Frog was sitting by a river bank when along came a Scorpion.“Hello brother Frog,” said Scorpion. “I wonder if you might be so kind as to give me a ride across the river on your back.”Frog knew that Scorpion could not swim.“I don't think that's a good idea,” said Frog. “You have a deadly sting. You might kill me.”“But why would I do that?” replied Scorpion. “If I stung you, we would both die.”“Mmm,” thoughtFrog. “That makes sense.”“Alright Scorpion, jump onto my back and I will give you a ride across the river,”he said.So Scorpion jumped onto Frog's back and Frog began to swim across the river. But halfway across, Scorpion took his deadly sting and stuck it into Frog's back. And asthe poison filled Frog's body his arms began to stiffen and they both began to sink. “Why?”gasped Frog in despair.“Sorry Frog,” said Scorpion. “It's my nature.”

Edited March 24, 2019 by victorismyhero

[walshie]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

There is an article in the Mail on Sunday about the number of times people caught with knives get let off by the courts. One offender had 21 separate court appearances for possession of a knife before getting a very short custodial sentence. 

His convictions

21 counts  Possession of a bladed weapon

17 counts  Assaulting police officer

33 counts  Common assault

8  counts   Sexual assault

65 counts  Theft

15 counts  Robbery

15 counts  Burglary

30 counts  Drugs

53 counts Fraud

BEFORE HE FINALLY GOT A CUSTODIAL SENTENCE FOR A MUCH MORE SERIOUS ASSAULT

That tells you all you ever need to know. Where is the deterrent in that? 

There should be a mandatory custodial sentence for the second time someone is caught with a blade and the first time they are caught using one. Take it out of the hands of the stupid old duffers who hear these cases.

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, walshie said:

There should be a mandatory custodial sentence for the second time someone is caught with a blade and the first time they are caught using one. Take it out of the hands of the stupid old duffers who hear these cases.

I thought this was the case for a second offence but it looks like it's not from earlier postings. 

[walshie]

Just now, oowee said:

I thought this was the case for a second offence but it looks like it's not from earlier postings. 

I thought it was supposed to be, but the thug with a zombie knife in Croydon proved it not to be the case. He's behind bars now luckily.

[henry d]

On 10/03/2019 at 22:48, fern01 said:

I believe most of the serious knife crime comes from ethnic minorities and people with mental health issues.

I have been told some countries encourage them to come here because they can't or won't sort them out

We had enough nutters of our own and now we have imported a load more.

 

See below...

On 15/03/2019 at 08:21, Penelope said:

<sniped>  .....I was reading an article back last summer in the Standard when they did a series of pieces about the increase in stabbings, where they concentrated on a gang member, he said things started to escalate when Somalis started coming into the country, they had no fear or respect for life. That's from a young black man about other young black men.

HERE is an interesting alternative to the above!

[Rewulf]

33 minutes ago, henry d said:

 

HERE is an interesting alternative to the above!

Whilst a better alternative to sending them back to Somalia, would be to move to a 'better' part of the UK , this option, for one reason or another, isnt always possible.

Whilst not all parts of Somalia are as war torn or as broken, infrastructure wise as some would think, you have to beg the question , is the UK that bad because of gang crime and stabbings amongst the young men of certain ethnicities, that sending them to a strict Islamic country with massive sectarian and tribal violence ,  mass poverty and unemployment, really going to help them with their personal development?

39 minutes ago, henry d said:

he said things started to escalate when Somalis started coming into the country, they had no fear or respect for life. That's from a young black man about other young black men.

If anyone in this country thinks that black people get on with black people , because theyre black, needs to get a reality check.
Caribbean origin people do not (in general) have good relations with Africans ,.
Africans can fall out amongst each other for a myriad of reasons, nationality , religion , or deep rooted tribal history (think Rwanda)
Indian sub continent Asians hate the lot of them, AND themselves along racial, tribal, and religious lines , with a healthy dollop of caste thrown in for good measure !

When it comes to gangs and knife crime however , the drive for money and 'power' coupled with a culture of violence and 'manliness ' drives it across all racial divides, just more so in some 'races' 
My issue is not that we need to lay blame on a certain demographic, but to simply recognise that the problem exists within a certain demographic, and not skirt the issue in case someone gets offended.
When these offended people , get faced with the uncomfortable truth, they usually start pointing their greasy fingers at the ethnic group that it is perfectly OK to offend, without fear of repercussion.
I suppose its OK to be racist, as long as youre not white ?

[Zapp]

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