Changes To The General Licence

[oldypigeonpopper]

Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

But they are bloody difficult to get!

hello, do you mean the licence or the reds, the application for CR 1 is on the E A web site, they are easy to catch, www.foragedfoods.co.uk  

[Neverforget]

thanks guys ill have a walk round and scare them with the gun, if it flys in front of it is another thing

Hope this gets resolved quickly enjoy the bank holl

[old'un]

13 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, the licence to catch red signal crayfish is free from the E A 

But don’t you need a licence before you can set pots? I have heard they are not easy to get?

[Bluebarrels]

[oldypigeonpopper]

Just now, old'un said:

But don’t you need a licence before you can set pots? I have heard they are not easy to get?

 

hello, check that web site out i put on tightchokes post, i know people who do this while fishing and just applied for licence no problem

[old'un]

38 minutes ago, turbo33 said:

If you can tick all these boxes, then probably. However, due to the mass media coverage, its a high possibility, that a member of the public could call the police, as they have done in the past with legitimate decoyers, and switched on policeman may check to see you've complied with all the below. The choice is yours. The highlighted in bold is the most restrictive part in my opinion, and non compliance puts us most at risk from prosecution.

 

a) Only as a last resort to prevent serious damage*.

*: see Definitions

8. When this licence can be used

b) Before using the licence reasonable endeavours must have been made to resolve the problem using the lawful methods identified in Table 1 (unless their use would be impractical, without effect or disproportionate in the circumstances) and any other lawful methods that may be appropriate in the circumstances.

c) Reasonable endeavours must continue to be made to resolve the problem using such appropriate lawful methods alongside use of the licence.

d) Only undertake lethal control of birds during the peak breeding season* if lethal control at other times or use of other licensed methods (e.g. egg destruction) would not provide a satisfactory solution.

e) Any person using this licence must be able to show, if asked by an officer of Natural England or the Police:

1. (i)  what type of crop any action under this licence is protecting;

2. (ii)  what lawful methods have been, and are being, taken to prevent serious damage to such crops by woodpigeon or why the lawful methods have not been taken;

3. (iii)  what measures have been and are being taken to minimise losses due to other species and causes; and

4. (iv)  why the threat of serious damage from woodpigeon is sufficiently serious to merit action under this licence.

Licence users are advised to keep a record or log of crop damage and of efforts to address problems by legal methods. 

Unless I am misunderstanding my highlighted part in section 8, (b) this seems to contradict some of the parts under (e)  or at least suggest we can make a judgment on the effects of table 1.

[turbo33]

Looking at the conditions of the GL, its section 8, a,b,c,d,e  that pose most of the problem. 8 (b) and 8(c) in particular. To comply see table 1 at the end of the licence.

Decoys with foam wings, are advised as a deterrent as it resembles a dead bird. You could possibly argue, if challenged, that you were using a dead bird because it looks more like the real thing!

Scaring and shooting apparently work best, so presumably, if you have 100 empties and  50 birds, you have tried 50% to scare them away.

Put a pigeon alarm call on your phone, whatever that sounds like!

Bag off areas of the field, couple of shopping bags on a stick.

Print the licence off and take a copy with you so you can show it if challenged.

I am not a lawyer, but for the moment on crops, I think its manageable until something more robust comes along.

 

 

 

 

[turbo33]

Yup, see your point old'un. See my post above. It would be impractical for me to attempt to drag a chair and scarecrow around. But not impractical to put  out Woodpigeon models with outstretched wings. So I feel confident enough to be challenged if I could show, more empties than birds, a couple of tesco bags on a stick, pigeon distress call on the phone,  and pics to show that I kept putting the dead birds out on the field to frighten others away!!

[lancer425]

15 minutes ago, old'un said:

Unless I am misunderstanding my highlighted part in section 8, (b) this seems to contradict some of the parts under (e)  or at least suggest we can make a judgment on the effects of table 1.

 

Probably just one of the issues with this GL  right there,  Natural England are not up to the job better qualified than me have recognising NE are not fit for task, and again others better qualified than me have said the same about their General licences,   lets hope BASC get to give significant  input or the government will never sort this  out.

[NatureBoy]

1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, why not try a cray fish pot while your spending time fishing, ? 

Or Shrimp! Been in news this week that all the shrimp tested in ALL of the Suffolk rivers contained traces of cocaine ketamine amongst other drugs,  So prpbally the same everywhere. NB

[twenty]

1 hour ago, turbo33 said:

Yup, see your point old'un. See my post above. It would be impractical for me to attempt to drag a chair and scarecrow around. But not impractical to put  out Woodpigeon models with outstretched wings. So I feel confident enough to be challenged if I could show, more empties than birds, a couple of tesco bags on a stick, pigeon distress call on the phone,  and pics to show that I kept putting the dead birds out on the field to frighten others away!!

Me too

[panoma1]

1 hour ago, NatureBoy said:

Or Shrimp! Been in news this week that all the shrimp tested in ALL of the Suffolk rivers contained traces of cocaine ketamine amongst other drugs,  So prpbally the same everywhere. NB

So if we see people walking around with shrimps stuck up their noses, we'll know why? 🤧

[Davetyler]

Well guys its simple really can i shoot pigeon landing on my brassica? Over the two weeks there has been gas guns, electric scarers, bags and tape taal over the field and pigeons keep landing,

The farmer wants me to go and clear the pigeons as nothing he has done has worked. Being young plants the pigeons have been on them and these none lethal methods have been of any use at all. 

My shot count is sxxt to say the least so if i have scared them off and they keep coming back can i shoot them (or try to anyways) 

i understand they havent revoked the new licence whilst whi ever sorts out the gray areas  so am i right in saying i can shoot

[mossy835]

i would leave it till sorted out,not worth getting done for it,

[kaunda]

Does anyone know of anyone who was prosecuted for any breach of the former General License conditions ?

 

[NatureBoy]

2 hours ago, panoma1 said:

So if we see people walking around with shrimps stuck up their noses, we'll know why? 🤧

I was thinking powdered shrimp! Natures way of saying Hi! Send some to NE n Gove! Maybe they would chill out and see sense! But they would just say  you need a license for that. NB

[Konnie]

As asked about the prosecution that would be most interesting.

How is the new GL going to stand up in court, I have shot the same farm for 30+ yrs gas guns and flags are used as I work and can only deal with crop damage at weekends, So could the prosecution produce factual evidence that why all of a sudden the pigeons would learn to avoid these fields, when in the past 30yrs they have not cottoned on.

Animal instinct is a powerful thing.

Lot of laughing may be heard in court me thinks, as how many other people could be brought forward to give the same evidence.

1 month and it will be carry on as you were.

[oldypigeonpopper]

29 minutes ago, Konnie said:

As asked about the prosecution that would be most interesting.

How is the new GL going to stand up in court, I have shot the same farm for 30+ yrs gas guns and flags are used as I work and can only deal with crop damage at weekends, So could the prosecution produce factual evidence that why all of a sudden the pigeons would learn to avoid these fields, when in the past 30yrs they have not cottoned on.

Animal instinct is a powerful thing.

Lot of laughing may be heard in court me thinks, as how many other people could be brought forward to give the same evidence.

1 month and it will be carry on as you were.

hello, i just hope your right on this 1 month Konnie,  

[Jelly]

Anyone with evidence regarding issues caused by the revocation of the general license please get in touch with Defra via the following link: 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/use-of-general-licences-for-the-management-of-certain-wild-birds-a-call-for-evidence

Edited May 4, 2019 by Jelly

[Konnie]

Well I cannot see any organisation having the people/funds to police this, and as the cps need a very high likelihood of conviction a case will possibly never end in any action.

 

The laws that are out there that are not policed are massive they are no longer interested in road traffic accidents here unless there is a casualty, so plodding across a field isn't going to happen, and if the public come tramping over they would also be on the wrong side of the law private property. 

4 minutes ago, Jelly said:

Anyone with evidence regarding issues caused by the revocation of the general license please get in touch with Defra via the following link: 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/use-of-general-licences-for-the-management-of-certain-wild-birds-a-call-for-evidence

See this as a non event how do you show how much rape has been eaten as opposed to what would not have been eaten if pigeons could have been shot over the last couple of weeks.

Whole issue is it's stopped crop protection, and protection of nests etc 

[Jelly]

5 minutes ago, Konnie said:

See this as a non event how do you show how much rape has been eaten as opposed to what would not have been eaten if pigeons could have been shot over the last couple of weeks.

Whole issue is it's stopped crop protection, and protection of nests etc 

Doesn't have to be direct cause and effect. Showing damaged crops suggests pest control is necessary.

[old'un]

12 minutes ago, Jelly said:

Anyone with evidence regarding issues caused by the revocation of the general license please get in touch with Defra via the following link: 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/use-of-general-licences-for-the-management-of-certain-wild-birds-a-call-for-evidence

Thanks for posting, this should be made a sticky and everyone should respond in anyway they can…..

[Jelly]

Just now, old'un said:

Thanks for posting, this should be made a sticky and everyone should respond in anyway they can…..

Absolutely, it's a real opportunity to get voices heard that are so often ignored. 

[Konnie]

Just tried unless you are using windows live format, I  couldn't reply,

You know bit like the NE website

 

So should be very few complaining so again no problem...………….despite the fact it's near impossible to do so 

[Neverforget]

5 minutes ago, Scully said:

I really can’t see much chance of this being policed, and on the offchance the rozzers do turn up after receiving a call, then just ensure you can cover your aris. The responsibility is yours, but again, much of the onus and methods of how far you have gone,  is open to interpretation, and seriously doubt any jobbing bobby is going to secure much contrary evidence to make anything stick, as long as you and the landowner are singing from the same sheet. 

Just take the time to think it through and ensure you’re both covered. 

ive been out today missed more than half with this wind