turbo33 Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 (edited) As predicted by a few of us that saw it on release late last night, the BASC have declared it unfit for purpose! Edited May 4, 2019 by turbo33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 Yes and I would suggest they will all be the same until they (Natural England) accept some help and guidance from BASC, CA and the others! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 I can not say i expected any other from Natural England, lets hope at some point they get their act together and consider the country and the wildflife the very things they are supposed to protect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted May 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 They’ve lost the job! This yesterday, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 Hopefully someone will get to the bottom of this balls up and sort it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam triple Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, turbo33 said: They’ve lost the job! This yesterday, 9 Is this true or more fake news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timerider Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 Yes, as expected, it is pretty much the same as the GL for Crow, and that was deemed "unfit for purpose", so who on earth thought it was a good idea to bring out the pigeon GL that is the same as the Crow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotgcoalman Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 Going to re mortgage the house to buy the amount of mannequins required to cover 1 large field I have permission on.. Googled how many would be needed. One series of tests with mannequins protecting a simulated soybean field from doves found each scarecrow could protect between 0.03 to 0.06 acres. You'd need at least 16 scarecrows per acre, or more than 10,000 per square mile, and even then they'd lose effectiveness once the birds got used to them The logistics make it a non starter on the field which is just this side of 100 acres. Also at £50 each it's going to be expensive.Don't forget they have to be moved around every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted May 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, sam triple said: Is this true or more fake news You would really struggle to understand, that this was going to be anything but a disaster for us. Either Gove is more daft than he looks, or it’s a deliberate move. 2 minutes ago, gotgcoalman said: Going to re mortgage the house to buy the amount of mannequins required to cover 1 large field I have permission on.. Googled how many would be needed. One series of tests with mannequins protecting a simulated soybean field from doves found each scarecrow could protect between 0.03 to 0.06 acres. You'd need at least 16 scarecrows per acre, or more than 10,000 per square mile, and even then they'd lose effectiveness once the birds got used to them The logistics make it a non starter on the field which is just this side of 100 acres. Also at £50 each it's going to be expensive.Don't forget they have to be moved around every day. It’s more complicated than that, they will have to be a mix of LGBT! 😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/799914/gl31-woodpigeons-prevent-serious-damage-to-crops.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatureBoy Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 Anyone got a recording of or heard a wood pigeon alarm call? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 33 minutes ago, NatureBoy said: Anyone got a recording of or heard a wood pigeon alarm call? Its laughable! Same as the notion that a pigeon with outstretched wings is a deterrent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, motty said: Its laughable! Same as the notion that a pigeon with outstretched wings is a deterrent! My thoughts entirely, those notes on "scaring & deterrents" have clearly been written by somebody who knows little about the habits of Wood Pigeons. As I see it, these new rules effectively outlaw shooting over stubble, roost shooting, and arguably flight shooting as well. I'm very surprised BASC didn't see this coming..? Cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 22 minutes ago, Catamong said: I'm very surprised BASC didn't see this coming..? They probably did as did NGO but have no power to stop it. NE are not listening . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Catamong said: My thoughts entirely, those notes on "scaring & deterrents" have clearly been written by somebody who knows little about the habits of Wood Pigeons. As I see it, these new rules effectively outlaw shooting over stubble, roost shooting, and arguably flight shooting as well. I'm very surprised BASC didn't see this coming..? Cat. Reading section 12, it could, and I would argue that -: `The licence allows action to prevent damage which means the licence can be used if serious damaging is occurring or if there is a strong likelihood that it will occur in the absence of licensed action` allows shooting pigeons on stubble as you are preventing them damaging another/adjacent crop. This could be further extrapolated to roost shooting on the basis that their next feed will be a crop that needs protecting. Again, flight shooting would be protecting the crop to which they are flighting out to. I`m sure, or at least I hope, that BASC, CA, NGO etc have persons far more articulate and forceful than me to put forward a good case for such shooting on a crop protection basis. OB Edited May 4, 2019 by Old Boggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Old Boggy said: Reading section 12, it could, and I would argue that -: `The licence allows action to prevent damage which means the licence can be used if serious damaging is occurring or if there is a strong likelihood that it will occur in the absence of licensed action` allows shooting pigeons on stubble as you are preventing them damaging another/adjacent crop. This could be further extrapolated to roost shooting on the basis that their next feed will be a crop that needs protecting. Again, flight shooting would be protecting the crop to which they are flighting out to. OB I'm not sure that the Legal Profession would agree with your broad interpretation of these new rules, as Section 8.a) states : Shooting...."Only as a last resort to prevent serious damage". It will be very interesting to see if there are any prosecutions in the near future, and what action BASC etc will take to support the individual(s) facing prosecution..? Cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 48 minutes ago, Catamong said: My thoughts entirely, those notes on "scaring & deterrents" have clearly been written by somebody who knows little about the habits of Wood Pigeons. As I see it, these new rules effectively outlaw shooting over stubble, roost shooting, and arguably flight shooting as well. I'm very surprised BASC didn't see this coming..? Cat. Basc did all they could BASC had delivered a two-page briefing to Natural England earlier in the week which highlighted the importance of wood pigeon control to rural England. "you can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink". Natural England Are not listening to anything, and lets hope this attitude costs them dearly and we start to see BASC and others get actively involved and sort this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Catamong said: I'm not sure that the Legal Profession would agree with your broad interpretation of these new rules, as Section 8.a) states : Shooting...."Only as a last resort to prevent serious damage". It will be very interesting to see if there are any prosecutions in the near future, and what action BASC etc will take to support the individual(s) facing prosecution..? Cat. General licence was always a grey area, and now they are going to have to come up with a proper solution to this problem, this NE document is not the way ahead the government clearly have seen this and acted on it this morning. We need to wait now see what they come up with . BASC have offered their help and i don’t see what more they can do, we need to let things develop now which as been pretty much the whole story on this fiasco so far, just wait to se what the next failure is From NE, Now they are Largely out of the frame might just get something positive come out of the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Basc did all they could BASC had delivered a two-page briefing to Natural England earlier in the week which highlighted the importance of wood pigeon control to rural England. I'm not referring to recent statements by BASC after the revocation of the General Licence, but in the run up to the action by Packham & friends prior to 23 April. Did they not know that Packham was preparing a case against the shooting fraternity, surely they must have been aware..? Cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Catamong said: I'm not referring to recent statements by BASC after the revocation of the General Licence, but in the run up to the action by Packham & friends prior to 23 April. Did they not know that Packham was preparing a case against the shooting fraternity, surely they must have been aware..? Cat. Of course they did and they like just about everybody else thought they were going to be changes to the GL brought about by packham/ WJs actions in court, And that any changes there might be to the existing ( Because it was at that time) General licence, would be done with proper consultation, The NEW KID IN TOWN Tony Juniper steered by his Friends of earth mentality or not pulled the plug it all went down the toilet and we have been wading about in it ever since and been fed even more on a daily basis from NE. BASC could do nothing nobody knew this was going to happen the way it did least of all BASC. Here if you not seen it lays out the facts quite well. https://youtu.be/i5R5Tv78g5o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocette Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 1 hour ago, motty said: Its laughable! Same as the notion that a pigeon with outstretched wings is a deterrent! Well,,,I shall doubly deter them with TWO pigeons with outstretched wing mounted on a device which rotates in a frightening fashion ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 The NGO'S opinion: A new General Licence for controlling woodpigeons to prevent serious damage to crops has been condemned by the National Gamekeepers’ Organisation as “appalling.” Today’s licence, issued by Natural England at 8pm on the Friday before the Bank Holiday weekend and with no prior warning, is vastly more restrictive than the old General Licence (GL04) which it replaces. The new licence (numbered GL31) can only be used by people growing crops or by those acting on their behalf. It requires licence users to be able to show the police or NE if asked what type of crop they are protecting, what alternative non-lethal methods of preventing pigeon damage have been used and continue to be used (or why they have not been used), and also what measures have been and are being taken to minimise losses due to other species and causes. A licence user must also be able to show why the threat of damage is sufficiently serious to merit action, saying “Relevant evidence will include examples of actual losses during the present year or in recent years.” Licence users are asked, in an ‘advice’ section, to exercise restraint in severe weather and the licence ends with a threat that if it is misused for recreational or commercial purposes, NE may review it. NGO Chairman, Liam Bell, said: “This new licence is appalling. In terms of restrictions and conditions it goes way beyond anything seen before. It will make pigeon control as we know it wholly impractical. Farmers and those who help them to control pests will be in uproar. The NGO will do everything it can to get this hopeless licence withdrawn and replaced.” In a separate and important development tonight, it has also emerged that the Secretary of State, Michael Gove, will be taking back control of bird licensing from Natural England, at least for a time, starting tomorrow (Saturday 4 May). Commenting on this news, Liam Bell said: “NE made a pig’s ear of licensing and changes were certainly needed. We must hope that Defra can do better and we will offer them every assistance in sorting out this mess. The priority is to get workable licences back up as soon as possible, especially at this critical time for both livestock and wildlife.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 4 hours ago, motty said: Its laughable! Same as the notion that a pigeon with outstretched wings is a deterrent! 🤫 That made me Chuckle as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatureBoy Posted May 4, 2019 Report Share Posted May 4, 2019 2 hours ago, motty said: Its laughable! Same as the notion that a pigeon with outstretched wings is a deterrent! Really makes you wonder who is actually advising them and where they get there info from? They are spose to be the experts in there field! Excuse pun. Seem to know very little about very common problem species and how we have been controlling them ok for years! Even if the woodie had an "alarm call" and we used a recording of it, wouldn't we then be accused of disturbing other birds and wildlife as well by playing it! leading to chilled eggs, starved chicks, abandoned nests and other birds they say they want to conserve leaving the area! Wildlife in general reacts more to other species alarm calls than they do to shotgun report. Woodies tho end up dead or heading to the horizon.. . .. . As a country boy i have been keen on wildlife conservation, shooting and fishing all my life and think i use common sense to control pest problems as and when. As i am sure a lot of us do. I would love to take some of these folk out in the field and show them why and how we do what we do! Not only to protect crops and livestock but how wildlife and the wider rural community benefits from it to!! . . , . . I am writing this sitting in the middle of a field of knocked back rape in a comfy ol chair dressed in bright rags waving my trusty stick. English partridges feeding on the bird mix. The first turtle doves return again to the copse because we have created the habitat controlled the pests and provide the feed. Buzzards hawks and falcons constantly over head. Farmers, contractors joggers, bikers, dog walkers, and horse riders passing by all day! Yet still the pigeons keep returning to the field to hammer the rape! Think it's about time i used a bit of common sense and got my gun out and shot them! Pan fried pigeon breast anyone!? . . . . . It's will never be perfect!!! But it works! If only they would just let us continue doing what we know and passionate about! Talk to us! TRUST US!!! NB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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