Extinction Rebellion

[Scully]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

 

We can start to put a carbon tax on goods and products. Easier to do it as part of the EU. Push China to make change. 

And here we go, just as expected......tax the problem; the default setting for policy makers worldwide. No prizes for guessing who ultimately pays, nor for who carries on regardless. Sorted. 

 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Scully

[old man]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

What you mean is good luck reducing your carbon footprint. It's not easy to take a hit on your standard of living. Even trying to reduce your footprint is likely to cost you. Most can reduce if they try but it's so much easier to blame everyone else. 

We are all mostly in  the same boat and I should really cut down on air travel but I don't because i want to travel. No one wants to hear the voice of protest that calls us out for what we are. 

We can start to put a carbon tax on goods and products. Easier to do it as part of the EU. Push China to make change. 

Out of interest, what right do we have to limit their economic progress and use of fossil fuel? They are only replicating what the west did years ago to build economies?

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, old man said:

They are only replicating what the west did years ago to build economies?

There are some rather major differences since then;

• The CO2 build up leading to warming was unknown then (and probably not happening on a noticeable scale.
• In fact not much CO2 build up happened because (I assume) the scale was smaller and there were more forests and jungles to convert the CO2 back to solid carbon and man was less 'energy intensive'.
• CO2 discharged to the upper atmosphere (areoplane exhausts) tends to stay there - whereas (some) ground level CO2 is converted back to solid carbon by plant growth (photosynthesis).

Whether you do/don't believe in global warming, the combination of rising global population, diminishing 'wild' forest/jungle areas, increasing energy usage, etc etc. are all putting pressures on the environment that simply weren't there to the same extent when the Georgians/Victorians/Edwardians were alive.

[Yellow Bear]

9 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

the combination of rising global population, diminishing 'wild' forest/jungle areas,

This is the elephant in the room that no one dare mention

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Yellow Bear said:

This is the elephant in the room that no one dare mention

True - I have mentioned it a number of times on these threads - but not everyone can see it, thinking that if we all change our lifestyles - then we can support more people.  That sort of attitude can only be a temporary respite from the issue - which is (as you obviously also see) the root cause of many if not most of our problems.  Small planet, too many inhabitants.

[poontang]

2 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

This is the elephant in the room that no one dare mention

That's not strictly true.

There is an organisation which brings to the attention of policymakers the impact of the ever growing global population, and its impact on the climate and environment.

Its name is 'Population Matters' and one of its patrons is a certain Mr David Attenborough. It's a shame he's not so vociferous in this role as he is as chief propagandist for the climate change agenda.

[poontang]

4 hours ago, Scully said:

And here we go, just as expected......tax the problem; the default setting for policy makers worldwide. No prizes for guessing who ultimately pays, nor for who carries on regardless. Sorted. 

 

They're simply not clever enough to find a solution, so tax it is.

[Scully]

Exactly, it’s the easy option. 

[oowee]

6 hours ago, Scully said:

And here we go, just as expected......tax the problem; the default setting for policy makers worldwide. No prizes for guessing who ultimately pays, nor for who carries on regardless. Sorted. 

 

Yep your right we don't want to pay for something when our kids can pay the bill later, why should we. 

[ShootingEgg]

Adding tax will do ****** all apart from make people worse off, it won't stop them buying, has the sugar tax done anything but make some products more expensive, nope... People now just pay more. They don't buy less.. Tax is not the answer, and the EU is not the answer either.. Just look at the thousands of acres of plastic greenhouses in Spain, all that polution when they replace it.. Not even sure why the EU has to be bought into a debate about idiots blocking our streets like jumped up spoilt brats. 

[Scully]

8 hours ago, oowee said:

Yep your right we don't want to pay for something when our kids can pay the bill later, why should we. 

Pay for what? 

[grahamch]

We need the equivalent to the French Seurutie police, go in hard, put them down and clear the roads of disruptive numpties 

[old man]

10 hours ago, poontang said:

They're simply not clever enough to find a solution, so tax it is.

There is no solution till the final one, some will jump up an down berating the rest. Some will simply ignore and the richest aided and abetted by the politicos will just continue to hoover up the cash because they can, spreading a little baksheesh behind closed doors off shore.

The thought that some have, that a few good people can and will alter the path to extinction is amusing personally. It ignores the influence  of evolutionary forces on everyone and everything.. The meek shall inherit the earth but only when the strong have taken everything of worth. 

Simply put people will not stop polluting or breeding?

 

[henry d]

4 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

Just look at the thousands of acres of plastic greenhouses in Spain, all that polution when they replace it..

1000's here too!

[das]

On 18/07/2019 at 15:56, guzzicat said:

Take 1 skip, pull up next to boat, 4 men with chainsaws, bits of boat in skip, same withangle grinders, chop trailer up, in skip job done, would only be done once, also these air wasters all have nike trainers on their feet & fancy mobile phones.

Good, but then this would be considered criminal damage.

[guzzicat]

1 minute ago, das said:

Good, but then this would be considered criminal damage.

Abandoned rubbish disposal.

[ShootingEgg]

57 minutes ago, henry d said:

1000's here too!

Probably is, but it can't just be the UK doing something. 1.02% if I naff all in the grand scheme of things! So yes us doing something is good, but won't make a difference if we are brutally honest. And this week Bristol has been more polutted due to them blocking traffic for days on end 

[oowee]

7 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Probably is, but it can't just be the UK doing something. 1.02% if I naff all in the grand scheme of things! So yes us doing something is good, but won't make a difference if we are brutally honest. And this week Bristol has been more polutted due to them blocking traffic for days on end 

We can make a difference. We are not 1% of pollution if you look at consumption generated pollution. More difference can be made through coordinated action through the large trading blocks who can do push suppliers (China et al) to make the change through tax, through rising standards. Use the receipts to drive more change. Look at what has been achieved in the garment manufacturing industry. 

The protester's have a point that the world needs to wake up to. Look back over time and the same would have been said for most protests be that the suffragette's or the spring uprisings. Protest promotes change and they are like their methods or not starting to make a difference.

[poontang]

3 hours ago, old man said:

There is no solution till the final one,

 

There are solutions, it's just that they're not palatable to most people so are very seldom discussed.

One obvious example is the Chinese 'one child policy', brought in in 1979 to curb the massive population growth China.  Of course it wasn't popular, nor is their 2 child policy of today, however it was very successful in reducing the amount of births in the country. Last year China recorded its lowest birth rate since 1961. Of course there are big problems with such a system, not least an ageing population and having the labour force able to provide for them. 

[oowee]

^^^^^^^ This. We have exactly the same issues. We have to move away from an economic model based on growth. It's a difficult pill to swallow when humanity is based on greed. When we measure success based on wealth. 

[poontang]

11 minutes ago, oowee said:

 We are not 1% of pollution if you look at consumption generated pollution. More difference can be made through coordinated action through the large trading blocks who can do push suppliers (China et al) to make the change through tax, through rising standards. Use the receipts to drive more change. Look at what has been achieved in the garment manufacturing industry. 

 

So you hit the consumer here with extra taxes in the hope of persuading the likes of China/India/Bangladesh etc to change their ways, go green and support their workers rights? We already import HUGE amounts of product from the developing economies so unless you're looking for a trade war or no trade deal at all you're blowing in the wind. You wanted globalisation... you've got it. 

[islandgun]

12 minutes ago, poontang said:

There are solutions, it's just that they're not palatable to most people so are very seldom discussed.

One obvious example is the Chinese 'one child policy', brought in in 1979 to curb the massive population growth China.  Of course it wasn't popular, nor is their 2 child policy of today, however it was very successful in reducing the amount of births in the country. Last year China recorded its lowest birth rate since 1961. Of course there are big problems with such a system, not least an ageing population and having the labour force able to provide for them. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-birth-rate-latest-number-babies-born-lowest-decade-a8066101.html

As you rightly point out its the ageing population thats costing the money...time for a bit of voluntary euthanasia. any volunteers😨

[oowee]

Just now, poontang said:

So you hit the consumer here with extra taxes in the hope of persuading the likes of China/India/Bangladesh etc to change their ways, go green and support their workers rights? We already import HUGE amounts of product from the developing economies so unless you're looking for a trade war or no trade deal at all you're blowing in the wind. You wanted globalisation... you've got it. 

Nope. We increase import tax on goods based on co2 production. Perfectly legal and fair if based on a policy framework. We already do it to some extent we just have to ratchet up the anti. 

[JohnfromUK]

8 minutes ago, islandgun said:

any volunteers

Yes - love to (when the time is right). 

Always had my dogs attended to by the vet in this respect - and I'm quite convinced that there comes a time in some human lives when I would wish to have done for me - what I have done for my dogs.

[armsid]

low carbon comes down to one thing bring work back locally cutting the need to travel 50 miles to your job.this cannot happen due to globalisation for the sake of cheapness.Coventry was a haven of local work now all the factories are housing estates and the roads are blocked with people travelling out of the city to find work putting pollution levels up ,also children going to school in cars when they could walk and lorries delivering goods from abroad that could be made here .swathes of farm land round coventry is currently being built on ,so the co2 will increase .no crops being grown carbon footprint increased nothing to absorb the increase .more human breeding more co2 man is the only animal on the planet that breeds when food is short.