SpringDon Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Interesting to see Doc Martin are doubling production in Northampton! They don't seem to be scared. That’s because they foresee an increase in demand for good kicking boots during the imminent demonstrations by which ever half of the country is angrier on 30th March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 23rd June 2016.........................................................The date that signalled the death of democracy in the UK! Promised so much and then all taken away again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 So no change there then as democracy has always been limited in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, oowee said: No one has the right to tell the electorate that they cannot vote on a topic. Anyone who says that a vote is a once in a generation vote are lying. It may however be a once in a generation opportunity. I wasn't suggesting they could, but like I said; as far as I recall. So what is the difference between a once in a generation vote and a once in a generation opportunity, if they're lying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 Everyone is complaining about our Parliamentarians ............... but actually they are doing so well, they are to get another £2000 a year (and that is each for anyone wondering!). https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6756277/MPs-handed-2-000-pay-rise-April.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, oowee said: I don't believe or see a majority in parliament for overturning the election result. Whilst many on here believe the vote meant out of everything EU (short of towing our island further offshore) the reality is that the vote was not clear on the options for a future relationship with the EU. Parliament is merely reflecting the vastly different options and perspectives as to what the leave vote meant. We have an advanced trading relationship with the EU and it's surely right that we try to protect some of this, this whilst defining the process of leaving. The question is, will parliament be capable of doing this? While I agree if leave won, which it did, no one knew exactly what future relationship if any we would have with the EU, however, any outcome that does not result in the UK leaving the EU club and all the rules being an EU member entails would not be enacting the referendum result, it is really very simple, but there are many in power attempting to muddy the waters in an attempt to subvert democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: While I agree if leave won, which it did, no one knew exactly what future relationship if any we would have with the EU, however, any outcome that does not result in the UK leaving the EU club and all the rules being an EU member entails would not be enacting the referendum result, it is really very simple, but there are many in power attempting to muddy the waters in an attempt to subvert democracy. Good post. Just about sums it up for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, oowee said: I don't believe or see a majority in parliament for overturning the election result. I do, and the only reason they havnt already voted to ignore the result , is because they cant think of a way to get away with it without serious repercussions. 41 minutes ago, oowee said: the reality is that the vote was not clear on the options for a future relationship with the EU. Of course it wasnt! How on earth could the leave side say with any accuracy how the landscape would look. Yet the EU threatened all kinds of mayhem would ensue, the BOE also , not to mention the tory government saying anything up to and including WW3 could happen. Leave dared to say that more money could be spent on the NHS , and its become a remainer mantra ever since they lost. The more sensible economists put forward the idea that European business relied heavily on trade with us , so it would be unlikely that we couldnt do some kind of tariff free deal. The government stated very early on that EU citizens rights would be protected, and expected a reciprocal agreement. 'You will be sorry/punished' was all you got back from fuhrer Verhofstadt, more threats and drunken ramblings from Junker, yet we are supposed to come to agreement on the future relationship ? When will remainers realise that the EU does not respect the UKs vote to leave it, and was always going to try to wreck the decision, by hook or crook? This is what you are dealing with, yet we were supposed to know 2 and 1/2 years ago during the referendum what the options were for our future dealings with them ? Seriously Grant, you have your reasons for thinking the whole thing is a bad idea, as has Raja and Jaymo, but take it right back to the beginning ,and you will read on these threads that Brussels and the pigs that dwell in it, were never going to let us go without a wholly vindictive fight, their gluttonous future depends on it. What wasnt so apparent , was the number of our elected MPs that are assisting them in the endeavour, for their own personal/financial reasons. Most of them cannot even say they have a mandate from their own constituencies, as they clearly havnt. Brexit was always a step into the unknown, yet the majority were happy to take it, be it bravery , stupidity , but its their choice, their right to take control of their own destiny. No one has the right, not in this country anyway, to tell someone their vote doesnt count because they didnt know what the results of it would be. I respect the rights of remainers to have their opinion. But if you believe in the democracy that this country is built on, respect the vote that won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) Finally, someone is doing something positive! Watch the video! No more sitting on our hands! https://youtu.be/lj0cIjr-egM Leave Means Leave have announced the ‘March to Leave’ where over the course of thirteen days, Brexiteers will be marching the length of Enlgand from Sunderland down to Westminster, in time for our scheduled departure from the European Union on March 29th. The route pays homage to the working class Jarrow March of 1936… The campaign was launched this afternoon by Nigel Farage, John Longworth, Esther McVey, and Richard Tice. Each day the marchers will travel between two locations with Leave Means Leave inviting Brexiteers from up and down the country to join them for some (or all!) of the way. Each day they’ll be walking for an average of five hours. Guido Fawkes www.order-order Farming Minister George Eustice has resigned today over concerns the Government will back an extension to Article 50. He has said he will support the Withdrawal Agreement in the meaningful vote, but that he will back measures, if necessary for the UK to “reclaim our freedom first and talk afterwards.” He does not hold back in saying the EU Commission has not behaved honourably throughout these negotiations… “I have stuck with the Government through a series of undignified retreats. However I fear that developments this week will lead to a sequence of events culminating in the EU dictating the terms of any extension requested and the final humiliation of our country.” His full letter can be read on the Guido Fawkes site! Well worth a read! Another man with principles! Guido Fawkes www.order-order 1 hour ago, oowee said: So no change there then as democracy has always been limited in the UK. Thanks to those who oppose democracy. A bit close to home? Edited February 28, 2019 by pinfireman spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 24 minutes ago, Rewulf said: I do, and the only reason they havnt already voted to ignore the result , is because they cant think of a way to get away with it without serious repercussions. Of course it wasnt! How on earth could the leave side say with any accuracy how the landscape would look. Yet the EU threatened all kinds of mayhem would ensue, the BOE also , not to mention the tory government saying anything up to and including WW3 could happen. Leave dared to say that more money could be spent on the NHS , and its become a remainer mantra ever since they lost. The more sensible economists put forward the idea that European business relied heavily on trade with us , so it would be unlikely that we couldnt do some kind of tariff free deal. The government stated very early on that EU citizens rights would be protected, and expected a reciprocal agreement. 'You will be sorry/punished' was all you got back from fuhrer Verhofstadt, more threats and drunken ramblings from Junker, yet we are supposed to come to agreement on the future relationship ? When will remainers realise that the EU does not respect the UKs vote to leave it, and was always going to try to wreck the decision, by hook or crook? This is what you are dealing with, yet we were supposed to know 2 and 1/2 years ago during the referendum what the options were for our future dealings with them ? Seriously Grant, you have your reasons for thinking the whole thing is a bad idea, as has Raja and Jaymo, but take it right back to the beginning ,and you will read on these threads that Brussels and the pigs that dwell in it, were never going to let us go without a wholly vindictive fight, their gluttonous future depends on it. What wasnt so apparent , was the number of our elected MPs that are assisting them in the endeavour, for their own personal/financial reasons. Most of them cannot even say they have a mandate from their own constituencies, as they clearly havnt. Brexit was always a step into the unknown, yet the majority were happy to take it, be it bravery , stupidity , but its their choice, their right to take control of their own destiny. No one has the right, not in this country anyway, to tell someone their vote doesnt count because they didnt know what the results of it would be. I respect the rights of remainers to have their opinion. But if you believe in the democracy that this country is built on, respect the vote that won. time everyone started to respect democracy, especially those elected to represent it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 New ONS figures have revealed that EU migration is down substantially from the date of the referendum, and non-EU migration is up. Many liberal Brexiteers campaigned to use Brexit as an opportunity to end ‘passport discrimination’ against people from outside the EU, on this evidence the balance is already improving… More interestingly, the ONS has revealed that the biggest drop within EU migration has come from the A8 Eastern European countries that joined the bloc in 2004. Migrants from these countries are more likely to be low skilled, wheres migrants from the original EU15 are more likely to be higher skilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 49 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: While I agree if leave won, which it did, no one knew exactly what future relationship if any we would have with the EU, however, any outcome that does not result in the UK leaving the EU club and all the rules being an EU member entails would not be enacting the referendum result, it is really very simple, but there are many in power attempting to muddy the waters in an attempt to subvert democracy. There are rules for EU members about membership and budgets and contributions which we should leave behind. Agreed. There are EU rules associated with trading standards that we may want to maintain to sell goods and services. Exactly the same as there will be standards for the US and anywhere else that we sell too that we have to abide by to trade. The difference with Europe is many of these rules are tied to and linked with free trade arrangements, let alone all of those with all the other stuff (R&D environmental treaties fishing etc etc ) and if possible it makes sense for both sides to agree those where we can from an in position rather than from a weaker third country position. I don't see it as muddying the waters, it's more a case of unraveling the complexity built up over the last 40 years or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Scully said: I have two kids also, one 22 the other 19; both at university. I'm not afraid and neither are they. I recall the day after the vote, where a local girl who was 18 at the time ranted on FB about the selfishness of the older generations ( and my generation ) for effectively wiping out the futures of her generation. She fell quiet after I pointed out that her generation had had the opportunity to vote, and blew it, and that if she really wanted to learn of a generation which had their futures wiped out by an elder generation she could look outward to the centenary of that said generation, rather than looking inward to her own. She was at drama school in London at the time, and less than a fortnight after her rant, her proud parents announced she had been selected for a four month dance and theatre tour of Bulgaria. She went from strength to strength and is now in the early stages of starting her own theatre company.....poor mite. My daughter asked me some time ago what I thought would happen if and when we leave, and I told her people will just get on with their lives, as they do so now. I suspect this will be highly likely. I'm not afraid of leaving, but am afraid of remaining. My only hope now is that the EU comes crashing down like an old condemned building. Excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 You think more migration from outside the EU is a good thing 🙂 dream on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, oowee said: I don't believe or see a majority in parliament for overturning the election result. Whilst many on here believe the vote meant out of everything EU (short of towing our island further offshore) the reality is that the vote was not clear on the options for a future relationship with the EU. Parliament is merely reflecting the vastly different options and perspectives as to what the leave vote meant. We have an advanced trading relationship with the EU and it's surely right that we try to protect some of this, this whilst defining the process of leaving. The question is, will parliament be capable of doing this? Typical! You avoid the main point, to shove your agenda through! The point was that this was the Largest democratic vote in this country,s history, before the vote Parliament, across the political divide, said they would honour the result! Now, because they did not get the result that THEY wanted, they are determined to destroy democracy in this country! It,s as simple as that! At no point prior to the Referendum were options discussed, because the Establishment thought they would win..............they did not! 1 hour ago, oowee said: No one has the right to tell the electorate that they cannot vote on a topic. Anyone who says that a vote is a once in a generation vote are lying. It may however be a once in a generation opportunity. And we are being denied the result of that opportunity! 1 hour ago, oowee said: So no change there then as democracy has always been limited in the UK. Limited? By who? Those who are currently siding with those denying democracy! Bit near to home? 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: I do, and the only reason they havnt already voted to ignore the result , is because they cant think of a way to get away with it without serious repercussions. Of course it wasnt! How on earth could the leave side say with any accuracy how the landscape would look. Yet the EU threatened all kinds of mayhem would ensue, the BOE also , not to mention the tory government saying anything up to and including WW3 could happen. Leave dared to say that more money could be spent on the NHS , and its become a remainer mantra ever since they lost. The more sensible economists put forward the idea that European business relied heavily on trade with us , so it would be unlikely that we couldnt do some kind of tariff free deal. The government stated very early on that EU citizens rights would be protected, and expected a reciprocal agreement. 'You will be sorry/punished' was all you got back from fuhrer Verhofstadt, more threats and drunken ramblings from Junker, yet we are supposed to come to agreement on the future relationship ? When will remainers realise that the EU does not respect the UKs vote to leave it, and was always going to try to wreck the decision, by hook or crook? This is what you are dealing with, yet we were supposed to know 2 and 1/2 years ago during the referendum what the options were for our future dealings with them ? Seriously Grant, you have your reasons for thinking the whole thing is a bad idea, as has Raja and Jaymo, but take it right back to the beginning ,and you will read on these threads that Brussels and the pigs that dwell in it, were never going to let us go without a wholly vindictive fight, their gluttonous future depends on it. What wasnt so apparent , was the number of our elected MPs that are assisting them in the endeavour, for their own personal/financial reasons. Most of them cannot even say they have a mandate from their own constituencies, as they clearly havnt. Brexit was always a step into the unknown, yet the majority were happy to take it, be it bravery , stupidity , but its their choice, their right to take control of their own destiny. No one has the right, not in this country anyway, to tell someone their vote doesnt count because they didnt know what the results of it would be. I respect the rights of remainers to have their opinion. But if you believe in the democracy that this country is built on, respect the vote that won. Great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, oowee said: There are rules for EU members about membership and budgets and contributions which we should leave behind. Agreed. There are EU rules associated with trading standards that we may want to maintain to sell goods and services. Exactly the same as there will be standards for the US and anywhere else that we sell too that we have to abide by to trade. The difference with Europe is many of these rules are tied to and linked with free trade arrangements, let alone all of those with all the other stuff (R&D environmental treaties fishing etc etc ) and if possible it makes sense for both sides to agree those where we can from an in position rather than from a weaker third country position. I don't see it as muddying the waters, it's more a case of unraveling the complexity built up over the last 40 years or so. Are there rules about the EU Commission auditing, in full, their finances? 10 minutes ago, oowee said: You think more migration from outside the EU is a good thing 🙂 dream on. No, I do not! I think ALL immigration should be controlled, as in Australia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 30 minutes ago, pinfireman said: New ONS figures have revealed that EU migration is down substantially from the date of the referendum, and non-EU migration is up. Many liberal Brexiteers campaigned to use Brexit as an opportunity to end ‘passport discrimination’ against people from outside the EU, on this evidence the balance is already improving… More interestingly, the ONS has revealed that the biggest drop within EU migration has come from the A8 Eastern European countries that joined the bloc in 2004. Migrants from these countries are more likely to be low skilled, wheres migrants from the original EU15 are more likely to be higher skilled. All those Lithuanian, Polish, Romanian doctors, lawyers, nurses and nuclear physicists put off from coming to the UK and contributing their skills to our economy. Such a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 43 minutes ago, pinfireman said: Are there rules about the EU Commission auditing, in full, their finances? No, I do not! I think ALL immigration should be controlled, as in Australia! But that’s not what you voted for! You voted to leave the EU, not a border Policy akin to the Australian/ US model- that’s something totally separate and is in the domain of the Home Secretary already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, Jaymo said: But that’s not what you voted for! You voted to leave the EU, not a border Policy akin to the Australian/ US model- that’s something totally separate and is in the domain of the Home Secretary already! Would you like to see the democratically arrived at referendum result overturned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 18 minutes ago, Scully said: Would you like to see the democratically arrived at referendum result overturned? That’s isn’t a valid response to the statement posed- was merely pointing out that your expecting things beyond the remit of the original referendum! Quite ironic that in barring EU Citizens that it has been seen according to the ONS, that they have been replaced by migration from outside from nations who traditionally have larger, and extended families, so more of a drain than your current 2.2 child, Polish ( used this nation as it’s often the most quoted on here) family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Jaymo said: That’s isn’t a valid response to the statement posed- was merely pointing out that your expecting things beyond the remit of the original referendum! Quite ironic that in barring EU Citizens that it has been seen according to the ONS, that they have been replaced by migration from outside from nations who traditionally have larger, and extended families, so more of a drain than your current 2.2 child, Polish ( used this nation as it’s often the most quoted on here) family. But this current trend brings in people with skills we need, rather than just anyone and all their relatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 5 hours ago, pinfireman said: Correct! 90% of those arriving here were either merely semi-skilled, or unskilled! We had 2 million unemployed in 1997.....We STILL have 2 million unemployed today! Why did the Blair / Brown government not train these people to fill jobs, instead of opening the flood gates to the world? Maybe because they estimated 2 million unemployed and a few million imports would ensure plenty of votes bolstering their power base? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jaymo said: That’s isn’t a valid response to the statement posed- was merely pointing out that your expecting things beyond the remit of the original referendum! Quite ironic that in barring EU Citizens that it has been seen according to the ONS, that they have been replaced by migration from outside from nations who traditionally have larger, and extended families, so more of a drain than your current 2.2 child, Polish ( used this nation as it’s often the most quoted on here) family. I realise that; I asked because whenever I ask you a question ( I may be wrong but thought I’d asked you this question before ) you seem to disappear for a while and in your return fail to answer the question I’ve asked, so I’m asking you now; do you believe the democratically arrived at referendum result should be overturned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 5 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: I find it incredible that people want the largest democratic vote in this country's history overturned, I can understand people having other views, even though I believe them misplaced, but to not bring the UK out of EU membership and all the rules that being an EU member entailed will be the largest travisty of freedom this country has ever known, there would simply be no excuse for it. Politicians don't need exuses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted February 28, 2019 Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, Scully said: I realise that; I asked because whenever I ask you a question ( I may be wrong but thought I’d asked you this question before ) you seem to disappear for a while and in your return fail to answer the question I’ve asked, so I’m asking you now; do you believe the democratically arrived at referendum result should be overturned? No- I don’t and I think I’ve stated that before? But also I have stated the the intricacies of the withdrawal are not as b&w, so in seeking a compromise it is bound to not suit all- it’s turned into a bit of a poo storm for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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