Brexit - merged threads

[yod dropper]

It's said we get the politicians we deserve.  Both of the major parties are going against their manifestos.  We often hear how politicians don't do what they promise to do and yet a sizeable chunk of the electorate are not only happy for them to do this but are actively encouraging them to do so.  I guess we'll collectively lose the moral right to hold them to their promises.  

 

[pinfireman]

5 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

They are all members of the "benefits Club!"

Hi Dave, What did you think to the print I,m selling on here?

4 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Spot on

Again, spot on

Maybe true in the past but most unions outside of the railways ect have no teeth at all and haven't done for years.

Sadly, Unison and Unite are the muscle behind Corbyn, and they have huge memberships. The union block vote is a criminal act against democracy!

4 hours ago, KFC said:

The British disease is "take as much as possible out whilst putting minimal in".

Government in this country never asks " what do we need?" it's always "what's the minimum we can get away with?"

Successive governments have failed year on year to invest in infrastructure, preferring 'service' industries. Now billions gets wasted on tendering and re-tendering contracts and franchises for privatisation and paying double the amount of interest for PFI contracts to keep debt off the political books.

Ironically, much of our infrastructure is now nationalised by foreign governments.

Schools have, for years, been solely based on academic achievement. When I went to Secondary School it was the last year of the College of Perceptors qualification which non-academic kids, like myself, could have taken. It included lots of manual skills.

As it was I left school without any qualifications. I did ok though.

Going around the world it's obvious that this country is years behind the rest of the world, especially IT and public transport.

I don't think leaving the EU is ever going to fix the basket case of GB Ltd.

Staying in certainly will not!  

[pinfireman]

2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Well, the latest treachery from Theresa the appeaser is another blow to the 17.4 million, she's u turned on ending EU court supremacy if we strike a deal after it was written into law only the other day, lets hope we get a no deal and a clean/hard Brexit, although I think it's clear it's not going to happen with May at the helm, she's petrified of leaving without a deal and I beleive she has no intention of doing so and never did, the EU probably know this to and the "deal" we get will be like a **** sandwich without the bread.

Tactical voting at the next election will finish the political careers of those Remoaners with small majorities! Take a look on Guido Fawkes site..........

[Mice!]

7 hours ago, panoma1 said:

Over many years UK Industry has failed to finance training for employees, failed to finance modernisation, failed to provide investment in machinery, failed to finance/keep up with technology, em

That's not entirely true, a lot of companies have some real state of the art machines its just there has been a gap in apprenticeships, and a lot of the young lads have no idea or interest, not out there time and there already saying how much they don't like engineering.

[panoma1]

Union reps and officials are voted in by the membership to protect and look after the interests of the members, the unions were/have been infiltrated by political left wingers such as trots and commies and militants, with their own political agendas, they want to change the world and workers interests come second in the revolution! the workers blindly vote for, follow and support their union leaders thinking they owe these extremists (who they believe are the same as them!) loyalty! Corbin's government would go down this route and people will soon find out they are of no importance and just cannon fodder in the socialist revolution!

This has bought the unions into disrepute with ordinary people,  exacerbated by employers manufacturing/provoking industrial action for their own reasons! the unions should reflect the aspirations of the membership, unfortunately they do not....the unions and their membership are used to further the political aspirations of the political extremist leaders who have infiltrated them!

Well that's what I believe anyway!

 

[panoma1]

17 minutes ago, Mice! said:

That's not entirely true, a lot of companies have some real state of the art machines its just there has been a gap in apprenticeships, and a lot of the young lads have no idea or interest, not out there time and there already saying how much they don't like engineering.

Just look at the failed British engineering/utilities/manufacturing businesses that have been purchased by foreign interests, and through investment and modernisation are now thriving again.......why couldn't the British owners do this?.............because they were continually taking out all the time instead of putting in!

I would wager that, bar a few exceptions, most of the companies that have invested in failing UK companies, and made them successful, are foreign owned?

[Rewulf]

15 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Union reps and officials are voted in by the membership to protect and look after the interests of the members, the unions were/have been infiltrated by political left wingers such as trots and commies and militants, with their own political agendas, they want to change the world and workers interests come second in the revolution! the workers blindly vote for, follow and support their union leaders thinking they owe these extremists (who they believe are the same as them!) loyalty! Corbin's government would go down this route and people will soon find out they are of no importance and just cannon fodder in the socialist revolution!

This has bought the unions into disrepute with ordinary people,  exacerbated by employers manufacturing/provoking industrial action for their own reasons! the unions should reflect the aspirations of the membership, unfortunately they do not....the unions and their membership are used to further the political aspirations of the political extremist leaders who have infiltrated them!

Well that's what I believe anyway!

 

Sounds a fair approximation .

[JohnfromUK]

32 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Well that's what I believe anyway!

I'll go along with that, but add that the Unions were aided and abetted by several politicians (as indeed are the likes of Len McLusky, Mick Cash, Mick Whelan and their colleagues)

[panoma1]

22 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I'll go along with that, but add that the Unions were aided and abetted by several politicians (as indeed are the likes of Len McLusky, Mick Cash, Mick Whelan and their colleagues)

Not the unions........but the union leaders! They call the tune, they and various politicians were/are all part of the same left wing political movement! If labour get into government, I can see history repeating itself with Corbin, Mc DONNELL, the union leaders and the Labour Party's militant tendency! Momentum......Or whatever disguise they are wearing now?

Blaming the union membership is like blaming the tommies for the horrors of the trenches in the 1st WW........it was the politicians and leaders that were responsible, it was them that sent them into that hell!

Edited July 24, 2018 by panoma1

[Mice!]

well the union has just been brought in at my place, and achieved nothing really, management still got what they want only it took longer and there was a vote, but we still got told to grab our ankles and smile.

[TriBsa]

I see that Appeaser May has just announced that she will take personal charge of Brexit negotiations aided by her Cabinet Secretary Olly Robbins, effectively sidelining her new Brexit Secretary. Her abject surrender to Brussels can only get worse.

Notice how she has announced this just hours before Westminster's 6 week summer recess, presumably to frustrate any reaction.

We now no longer even have government by collective cabinet responsibility.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44941792

 

 

[JRDS]

Yep full scale gloves off Treachoury set in motion hours before the recess, why are those letters not pouring in to remove the poisonous traitorous bitch?

Anyone with any tiny doubt she has been an Establishment EU Plant from day 1 must surely now be under no illusion she deserves nothing less than a rope.  

 

Edited July 24, 2018 by JRDS

[pinfireman]

2 hours ago, Mice! said:

That's not entirely true, a lot of companies have some real state of the art machines its just there has been a gap in apprenticeships, and a lot of the young lads have no idea or interest, not out there time and there already saying how much they don't like engineering.

They have been brainwashed into thinking that they will get great jobs in IT

2 hours ago, panoma1 said:

Union reps and officials are voted in by the membership to protect and look after the interests of the members, the unions were/have been infiltrated by political left wingers such as trots and commies and militants, with their own political agendas, they want to change the world and workers interests come second in the revolution! the workers blindly vote for, follow and support their union leaders thinking they owe these extremists (who they believe are the same as them!) loyalty! Corbin's government would go down this route and people will soon find out they are of no importance and just cannon fodder in the socialist revolution!

This has bought the unions into disrepute with ordinary people,  exacerbated by employers manufacturing/provoking industrial action for their own reasons! the unions should reflect the aspirations of the membership, unfortunately they do not....the unions and their membership are used to further the political aspirations of the political extremist leaders who have infiltrated them!

Well that's what I believe anyway!

 

Bang on!  Red Len McCluskey was re-elected in the last union, by only 6400, out of a membership of 1 million ! His opponent, Gerard Coyne, a fellow Left Winger and Labour Party member, voted 4,000 votes! This then ensued....

Gerard Coyne, who challenged Len McCluskey for the leadership of Unite, has been sacked from his job as a regional organiser for the union. A kangaroo court led by McCluskey and Corbyn’s communist ally Andrew Murray – who now works for Jez – dismissed Coyne on trumped up charges. The election returning officer from Electoral Reform Services – the independent organisation which conducted the poll – had already ruled that there was no breach of the rules. Coyne said in a statement:

“The disciplinary hearing was nothing more than a show trial and the irony not lost on me that Mr McCluskey’s chief of staff, Andrew Murray – a self-confessed admirer of Joseph Stalin – was the investigator and decision maker on the charge I was dismissed for. It is beyond parody that I, as a 30-year member of the Labour Party, should be accused of harming Unite-Labour relations by Mr Murray, a member of the Communist Party for 40 years. It is a public warning to any member of Unite’s staff who is thinking of challenging the way the McCluskey gang run the union: ‘step out of line, and you will be out of a job’. Political dissent is not tolerated inside Unite.”

[pinfireman]

2 hours ago, panoma1 said:

Just look at the failed British engineering/utilities/manufacturing businesses that have been purchased by foreign interests, and through investment and modernisation are now thriving again.......why couldn't the British owners do this?.............because they were continually taking out all the time instead of putting in!

I would wager that, bar a few exceptions, most of the companies that have invested in failing UK companies, and made them successful, are foreign owned?

Actually, it was greedy investors, shareholders, constantly demanding a dividend each year, or threatening to take their investment out of the company, Then militant unions, and lastly poor management! But all three are equally responsible! Privately owned companies do not have to suffer this.

[panoma1]

21 minutes ago, Mice! said:

well the union has just been brought in at my place, and achieved nothing really, management still got what they want only it took longer and there was a vote, but we still got told to grab our ankles and smile.

Who "brought" the union in? What percentage of the workforce are members? If the majority of workers don't support the union by joining, the negotiators can't win anything the employer doesn't want to give! If there is a majority membership they have a strong hand, the ability of the negotiators may them be a factor?......But what really winds the union members up is those that won't join but will take any benefits the union negotiators win!

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, TriBsa said:

I see that Appeaser May has just announced that she will take personal charge of Brexit negotiations aided by her Cabinet Secretary Olly Robbins, effectively sidelining her new Brexit Secretary. Her abject surrender to Brussels can only get worse.

Notice how she has announced this just hours before Westminster's 6 week summer recess, presumably to frustrate any reaction.

We now no longer even have government by collective cabinet responsibility.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44941792

 

 

I don't know why I'm suprised, brexit led by a bunch of remainers, like I said in an earlier post, I beleive this has been meticulously planned out since leave won, I just can't see brexit being allowed to happen by the remaniacs in power.

[Mice!]

3 hours ago, panoma1 said:

Who "brought" the union in? What percentage of the workforce are members? If the majority of workers don't support the union by joining, the negotiators can't win anything the employer doesn't want to give! If there is a majority membership they have a strong hand, the ability of the negotiators may them be a factor?......But what really winds the union members up is those that won't join but will take any benefits the union negotiators win!

Several sites same parent company all on different terms and conditions, the better paying sites already had the union in place, the thought was we would all get the same deal. No chance, probably 60-70% joined then quite a few left after deciding nothing was going to change.

best bit on the forms is they ask if you would like to donate to the labour party!!! So in came the union and everyone still ends up doing what the management wanted.

Given health and safety is such a large thing now in bigger industry i really don't see what the unions actually achieve??

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, seems we have another second EU vote campaigner, SKY NEWS, maybe he thinks leaving the EU will affect the sale of Walkers crisps 

[Rewulf]

52 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, seems we have another second EU vote campaigner, SKY NEWS, maybe he thinks leaving the EU will affect the sale of Walkers crisps 

Ah, Mr Lineker, a long time vocal critic of Brexit.
Hes entitled to his opinion of course, but how he thinks he can speak for ordinary people on the matter beats me.
His accumulated wealth and gold plated future mean hes hardly likely to suffer any ill effects, even if he never worked again.

What annoys me the most is the way they say 'This is not what we voted for, we need another referendum on the final deal'

And then what ??
Suppose there is no final deal, (hard Brexit) do we still vote? On  the non existent 'deal' the EU dont want to give us ?
Do we then vote to remain or stay...again ?
Then suppose we vote to leave again, rinse and repeat until one day we vote to stay ?

What if we get a deal and we vote to reject it, start again with more 'negotiations ' 

All the while uncertainty harming our economy.

Yes Mr Lineker, lets have a re run or three, you can pay for the leaflet drop this time, you can certainly afford it.

[walshie]

It really winds me up when these people use their position in the spotlight to foist their personal views on the rest of us. 

[Rewulf]

News just in, Junker has said an extension to negotiations would be possible in 1 of 2 scenarios, and only these situations.

1. We have another referendum ??

2.We have a general election, presumably with voting in a pro EU party ?

Bear in mind the rules of article 50 state that ALL EU states must agree to this, but Junkers said it anyway without asking them !

No Im not joking either.

[JohnfromUK]

Who said Juncker has to follow rules?  Rules are for members, he is President.

Well we may have a general election - in which there can be only two 'front runners' capable of forming a government/coalition, Tory and Labour.  Tory is officially Brexit (with a largeish minority of remainers) and Labour was Brexit (also with a largeish minority of remainers) - but I don't know what it is now - and nor it seems do they.

Lib Dem, UKIP and Scot/Welsh nats have no chance of being largest party

[walshie]

8 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

News just in, Junker has said an extension to negotiations would be possible in 1 of 2 scenarios, and only these situations.

1. We have another referendum ??

2.We have a general election, presumably with voting in a pro EU party ?

Bear in mind the rules of article 50 state that ALL EU states must agree to this, but Junkers said it anyway without asking them !

No Im not joking either.

And what if we had another referendum and got the same result?

Article 50 is quite clear in its 2 year deadline.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

What an absolute cluster-****!

[JRDS]

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

What an absolute cluster-****!

Didn't need to be, made this way by both houses not wanting to Leave and using every trick in the book to betray their own country.  We should have left on WTO and negotiated after that, at least Business would have had certainty.

Edited July 26, 2018 by JRDS