Jaymo Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 Rewulf Time does indeed heal wounds and realisation that what happened 70 odd years ago no way reflects current thinking.( that and the fact we don’t have anyone over 60 working for us) But shouldn’t we also not keep using previous conflicts as current day reasoning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 49 minutes ago, Jaymo said: Rewulf Time does indeed heal wounds and realisation that what happened 70 odd years ago no way reflects current thinking.( that and the fact we don’t have anyone over 60 working for us) But shouldn’t we also not keep using previous conflicts as current day reasoning? Your right previous conflicts should never be held against people of the present who were in no way responsible, but at the same time the conflicts, the lessons learnt and the people who died fighting for freedom should never be forgotten. When it comes to the EU I see an aggressive super state being formed he'll bent on grabbing power and ruling over Europe, remind you of anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 22 minutes ago, Jaymo said: Rewulf Time does indeed heal wounds and realisation that what happened 70 odd years ago no way reflects current thinking.( that and the fact we don’t have anyone over 60 working for us) But shouldn’t we also not keep using previous conflicts as current day reasoning? i agree, the 'sins of the fathers' mentality is a cycle of destruction and wastage of lives and resources, that are the bane of the world. In particular this part of the world. From the Balkans, with their centuries old conflicts between the Islamic world, and eventually themselves, to the past feudal , religious and empirical wars of western Europe, man, by his nature, his 'chemistry' seeks violence occasionally to 'redress the wrongs' he believes have been done to him...or his forefathers. So to say we shouldnt really think that way, in our modern 'civilised' world, is , no disrespect, a fallacy. We simply havnt moved on that much from 70 years ago, technologically ? Yes , also our societies are so much more inclusive , tolerant and fair to all, yes, BUT, the thin membrane of civilisation and peace, only just cover the violence of our nature. Strangely in a way, the 'inventors' of the EU , who lived through one or two of last centuries world wars, sought to try and prevent these wasteful atrocities, a noble aim ? Like many good plans, they sometimes wander from the path, maybe the early nazi party simply wanted to rebuild Germany after the catastrophe of WW1? 'make themselves great again' You know the end result, when a force becomes too powerful, its power often corrupts, the good, turns to bad, and catastrophe ensues. Can you see parallels with the EU ? Remember Germany in the 1930s only wanted a small army ? What starts out as an innocent trade agreement, ends up as an unelected world stage government? Who would have thought that this trade agreement would one day threaten us with ruin, for ASKING to leave ? Threaten sanctions to member countries who refuse to relinquish their sovereignty and laws, those same countries that within some peoples lifetimes felt the jackboot of its leading member ? So what you are asking, which is, to forget about all the death, suffering and economic cataclysm of 70 years ago, whilst we ignore the possible seeds of another one in the making ? History...Lessons...? Id talk to some older Dutch people if you can. 4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Your right previous conflicts should never be held against people of the present who were in no way responsible, but at the same time the conflicts, the lessons learnt and the people who died fighting for freedom should never be forgotten. When it comes to the EU I see an aggressive super state being formed he'll bent on grabbing power and ruling over Europe, remind you of anyone? +1 Just beat me to it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 But doesn’t unity of ‘forces’ decrease the desire for other nations to incite hostilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 19 minutes ago, Jaymo said: But doesn’t unity of ‘forces’ decrease the desire for other nations to incite hostilities? But that is what the UN and NATO were formed for, why would the EU want an army? Maybe they have their sights set on being a super power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: But that is what the UN and NATO were formed for, why would the EU want an army? Maybe they have their sights set on being a super power. There corrected it for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Jaymo said: But doesn’t unity of ‘forces’ decrease the desire for other nations to incite hostilities? It can, or it can make the adversary feel threatened , sometimes enough to make war inevitable , Cold War ? The Warsaw pact only came into existence after the west formed NATO for instance. But the main issue is, once you start forming alliances, any countries left out of it , either feel they HAVE to join or be targeted, or will indeed WILL be targeted anyway. The 19 th and 20 th centuries contain many examples of this. Strength through unity only works when its voluntary, otherwise you have a totalitarian state of misery, that will eventually implode by itself. We are seeing the first stages of this now with the EU. 9 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: But that is what the UN and NATO were formed for, why would the EU want an army? Maybe they have their sights set on being a super power. I have no doubts whatsoever they are working towards being a one nation/state entity, and there will be NO vote on it. They have literally said as much. After they have achieved that, literally anything could happen. And from what has been seen of late with them, hostilities are likely. Edited July 31, 2018 by Rewulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 Domination, and the desire to dominate, can take many forms. It is a normal part of human nature. Wars in this century will not be fought with tanks on the battlefield, they will be fought in other, more subtle ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 31, 2018 Report Share Posted July 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Domination, and the desire to dominate, can take many forms. It is a normal part of human nature. Wars in this century will not be fought with tanks on the battlefield, they will be fought in other, more subtle ways. They already are. The war to control your opinions and bias, we are already seeing it played out on a day to day basis. Most of our news is fake, twisted and biased, designed to elicit a response, from Salisbury to Syria, our thoughts are manipulated through all of our medias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted August 1, 2018 Report Share Posted August 1, 2018 ...and May is off to another strategy meeting with Macron.....in the plan to hoodwink us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 1, 2018 Report Share Posted August 1, 2018 Not long till 29th March 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted August 1, 2018 Report Share Posted August 1, 2018 On 31/07/2018 at 09:22, Vince Green said: Yes but its not about migrants it should be all about trade. They are not trading partners on an equal financial footing with us, and never will be. The rules of the EU said they had to be before they could join, but those rules were flouted in 2004 and nobody seems to be asking why?. What's the point in being locked into a trading community with countries that don't have any money to buy goods off us? but have an equal vote and can veto our plans? That is a very good point indeed given the EU leaders claim it cannot break its so called strick rules: That's exactly what they did to the detriment of the wealthier and better developed members. I 'get' that we ought to partner with the European continent to form a massive trading block with comparible populations and clout of USA, China, and India etc, but we don't need to subjugate ourselves, our courts nor open our borders to peoples of massively different cultures and values to acheive that. Globalisation is on the march - few could deny that. For me its partly the past deceptions with which we are now being openly bullied to change our cultures to suit other peoples. We have been mugged big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 1, 2018 Report Share Posted August 1, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 1, 2018 Report Share Posted August 1, 2018 Strange how the REMAIN 'gizzits' seem to be copied from the Corbyn/Abbott/MacDonald list of promises, less the refund of tuition fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 Link to a newspaper article showing the UK would be far better with a hard brexit under WTO rules, so the question is, why is Theresa the appeaser so desperate to keep us linked to the EU at any cost? https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/997628/brexit-news-theresa-may-trade-WTO-eu-no-deal-Brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRDS Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 Because it is blindingly obvious that she and the vast majority of both houses do not put this country and it's indigenous population first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, JRDS said: Because it is blindingly obvious that she and the vast majority of both houses do not put this country and it's indigenous population first. https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/brexit-means-boris/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said: Link to a newspaper article showing the UK would be far better with a hard brexit under WTO rules, so the question is, why is Theresa the appeaser so desperate to keep us linked to the EU at any cost? https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/997628/brexit-news-theresa-may-trade-WTO-eu-no-deal-Brexit Because she is part of the BIG plan and is desperately trying to stay so ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 On 30/07/2018 at 21:54, Jaymo said: Vince As you may or not be aware- I work in the Netherlands for one of the largest employers there. Im afraid to say that my colleagues do not share your enthusiasm for BREXIT and Gert Wilders is seen as ( well, the swear filter won’t allow me to use some of heir words). Regarding the German remarks- the most I ever hear is the same old joke, ESP when flying into a German Airport is “I want my bicycle back” with reference to when German troops were pulling back and nicked all the locals bikes They actually dislike the French more....... BTW, Worked there for 18years so have a bit of an idea !!!!!! I only did a month in Gouda, seriously nice place, in a bar one night chatting to some Dutch folk and a lass was trying to get me to pronounce something, i couldn't hear properly because of the music and had no chance. She said Germans couldn't get the pronunciation right and that's how they were spotted during the war, they haven't forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) On 22/07/2018 at 23:39, smokingdragon said: I work for a finance multi national and under the covers they are shifting everything to Europe now. I work in IT and the migration of IT stuff is getting scary and this is common. We have good European guys who who will no longer consider a posting to UK and we are having to offload stuff to Eastern europe to keep going. From my perspective Brexit is insular and approacing xenophobic. and of course they couldn't care less about this country only their own bottom line. Bound to be some rats jumping ship even though it will continue to float. I have no doubt reading between the lines that the EU are beginning to panic behind closed doors as they see that May has been sussed by the electorate and a no deal exit is more than likely which would hurt the EU far more than us. Bring it on. For every twenty or more people I speak with about Brexit I occasionally find one who disagrees. Edited August 2, 2018 by Walker570 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 On 30/07/2018 at 19:55, walshie said: Italy. Hungary? Then Austria? Poland....quite a few states with growing numbers of anti-EU voters! On 30/07/2018 at 20:37, Newbie to this said: I wouldn't put it passed Germany or France to jump ship. They are going to have to make up the budget gap if they want the EU to survive. Let's face it no others can afford to. Germany IS the EU ! On 30/07/2018 at 21:01, Vince Green said: Has anybody else seen that idiot Mandleson has opened his mouth again. The EU paid employee now reckons that everyone who voted to leave is a "Nationalist" is this the new hate word, like Racist or "Little Briton" Bigot etc. Well I have a word for you Peter Mandleson, its tos-ser, go look it up You are too kind to him! I,d use something way stronger, but it is not allowed. On 30/07/2018 at 21:18, Vince Green said: Holland have a problem, they hate the Germans with a hate you could only have if you had suffered what they had suffered during WW2 at the hands of the Germans. Seventy years doesn't heal that. But, and its a big but, about 50% of the EU exports go out through Dutch ports, Rotterdam etc. Germany would just love to undermine the Dutch shipping monopoly and feed the work through its own ports. Who needs enemies? If Hexit happens the Germans would screw them , again The only large port in Germany is Hamburg, and that could not handle the amount of shipping that Rotterdam does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted August 2, 2018 Report Share Posted August 2, 2018 On 31/07/2018 at 09:22, Vince Green said: Yes but its not about migrants it should be all about trade. They are not trading partners on an equal financial footing with us, and never will be. The rules of the EU said they had to be before they could join, but those rules were flouted in 2004 and nobody seems to be asking why?. What's the point in being locked into a trading community with countries that don't have any money to buy goods off us? but have an equal vote and can veto our plans? Correct! On 31/07/2018 at 12:00, 12gauge82 said: Your right previous conflicts should never be held against people of the present who were in no way responsible, but at the same time the conflicts, the lessons learnt and the people who died fighting for freedom should never be forgotten. When it comes to the EU I see an aggressive super state being formed he'll bent on grabbing power and ruling over Europe, remind you of anyone? Mad Alf Heatlump? On 31/07/2018 at 12:53, Newbie to this said: But that is what the UN and NATO were formed for, why would the EU want an army? Maybe they have their sights set on being a super power. True! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted August 3, 2018 Report Share Posted August 3, 2018 The Road Haulage Association is getting twitchy. https://www.rha.uk.net/getmedia/c98d0219-fcf7-434e-b9cd-51f2ff0c316c/180730-Brexit-pull-your-finger-out-final.pdf.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 3, 2018 Report Share Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) If it isn't the Bank of England, it is another non-elected body scaremongering. It really is pathetic - the drip, drip of horror stories. Edited August 3, 2018 by Gordon R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted August 3, 2018 Report Share Posted August 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: If it isn't the Bank of England, it is another non-elected body scaremongering. It really is pathetic - the drip, drip of horror stories. Spot on, project fear Mark 2 has been well underway for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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