Brexit - merged threads

[Scully]

21 minutes ago, oowee said:

So then you accept the point that leavers did not know what they were voting for and mostly did not care. 

Some probably, but everyone I know who voted to leave ( myself included ) are more than happy to accept the consequences, as long as we leave. 

[walshie]

No-one (not even the remainers despite being so much more intelligent than leavers) knew exactly what was involved in the vote. 

Maybe we (leavers) don't know the consequences of voting leave, but we DO know the consequences of staying in the superstate. No-one could say we haven't given it a try, or tried to negotiate slightly better deals, but each time the answer has been "Nein" so now they can go and get stuffed. 

 

Edited July 28, 2018 by walshie

[Gordon R]

Quote

So then you accept the point that leavers did not know what they were voting for and mostly did not care. 

As no-one, but no-one knew the full script about leaving, everyone who voted - voted in ignorance of the real outcome. I resent the implication that somehow the Remain voters were wiser and knew what was involved and the Leavers voted in ignorance. Not only would that be untrue, it is plainly stupid.

You still appear to be in denial.

[Dave-G]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

I agree that we probably did not know what we were voting for when we joined ( a little before my time). It was certainly the case that the implications of joining were raised in full in parliament but perhaps not fully spelt out to the electorate and that may in part being a result of a lack of a crystal ball in trying to second guess where the thing may go. There was however a series of additional treaties that members signed upto as they went along. As a result people did not realise the implications of what they were voting for and in any case the Union has evolved by the agreement of its members into something that was not fully foreseen at the start of the process.

The same could be said of the more recent referendum where the implications of leaving were not spelt out largely because they were unknown. The recent negotiation shambles demonstrate this. Whatever the position of the country at exit will be will not be the final position of Brexit. I think if there had been a more rational and organised process for exiting the EU with a clear path for where and what we as a country might head for the vote would probably have been heavily weighted in favour of leave. Unfortunately our political processes do not always allow for a more nuanced argument and discussion. 

How much better would it have been voting for a clear and maybe already negotiated exit process.  Whilst the referendum vote on either side was a vote for the unknown a vote to remain had at least the guiding principles of the Lisbon treaty. What do you think? 

My primary reason for voting leave was an act of rebellion against the snidey way EU and some of our own traiterous politicians morphed a willing peoples decision to enter a common market trading agreement into political subservience. How very dare they and how shamefull that almost half the population turn the other cheek and support the neutering of our country.

[panoma1]

I knew what I was voting for......OUT.......and would do the same again! I accept the consequences!.......Positive or Negative!

9 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

My primary reason for voting leave was an act of rebellion against the snidey way EU and some of our own traiterous politicians morphed a willing peoples decision to enter a common market trading agreement into political subservience. How very dare they and how shamefull that almost half the population turn the other cheek and support the neutering of our country.

?

[old man]

15 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

My primary reason for voting leave was an act of rebellion against the snidey way EU and some of our own traiterous politicians morphed a willing peoples decision to enter a common market trading agreement into political subservience. How very dare they and how shamefull that almost half the population turn the other cheek and support the neutering of our country.

They dare because of their hidden agenda and political cover afforded by their positions.

Smoke, mirrors and back room deals to fill theirs and sponsors pockets, the real reason for them being there to help the populace long forgotten in the hysteria of living 5 *.

[CharlieT]

18 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I knew what I was voting for......OUT.......and would do the same again! I accept the consequences!.......Positive or Negative!

?

Exactly, as would everyone else I know who voted out.

[Westley]

Has anyone heard that we will be driving on the right after Brexit       For the last few months I seem to have been meeting more and more drivers who are trying it out  !

[TIGHTCHOKE]

4 minutes ago, Westley said:

Has anyone heard that we will be driving on the right after Brexit       For the last few months I seem to have been meeting more and more drivers who are trying it out  !

Why would we change? We are leaving!

[Westley]

1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Why would we change? We are leaving!

Yes, it was written rather 'tongue in cheek', having just experienced yet another near miss !

[Yellow Bear]

1 hour ago, Westley said:

Has anyone heard that we will be driving on the right after Brexit       For the last few months I seem to have been meeting more and more drivers who are trying it out  !

Out here we used to drive on the left of the road  --  Now we drive on what is left of the road    ----    however nowt to do with Brexit except we may have money to repair them once we leave.

[Westley]

1 hour ago, Yellow Bear said:

Out here we used to drive on the left of the road  --  Now we drive on what is left of the road    ----    however nowt to do with Brexit except we may have money to repair them once we leave.

NOT by the time we have paid the redundancy to our MEP's   !

[Rewulf]

6 hours ago, oowee said:

It would be and i would argue could have been possible to leave without risk of a financial hit if the process had been conducted in a different way. With a clear plan there may well have been many others (myself included) that would have voted to leave. 

If you believe that, I've got some geese for you that lay golden eggs.. honest !

[Good shot?]

We don't have a clear plan now after two years, what was the chance of it at the beginning.

Just leave, full stop.

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

If you believe that, I've got some geese for you that lay golden eggs.. honest !

Negotiated exit. Talk to the monkey. Better odds maybe than throw the whole thing up in the air and hold whilst holding our breath.

Duck eggs wont help. 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2018 by oowee

[Gordon R]

EU are not interested in negotiating. Is there anyone in the UK who believes that they are? Seriously?

The concept is laughable.

[oowee]

30 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

EU are not interested in negotiating. Is there anyone in the UK who believes that they are? Seriously?

The concept is laughable.

Laugh all you like. It must have been a better option than the pile of ...... we are in now.

[Gordon R]

How can you negotiate with the EU who refuse to negotiate? I do laugh at your view, as nothing has changed. The pile of whatever might turn out to be gold dust, it might not. The point is that no-one knows - not you - not anyone, so how can you say it would be better?

Short answer is that you can't.

[Rewulf]

28 minutes ago, oowee said:

Laugh all you like. It must have been a better option than the pile of ...... we are in now.

Gordon is absolutely correct, we started off with our negotiations thinking that they wanted to deal, they don't , it's been a waste of time from the start. They never wanted a deal, THEY want hard Brexit.

You lack the ability to see them for who they are, this is why you crave to reverse our decision, no matter what the consequences.

Do you seriously believe that stopping or reversing Brexit is less harmful than Brexit itself?

You fail to see the implications.

[oowee]

6 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Gordon is absolutely correct, we started off with our negotiations thinking that they wanted to deal, they don't , it's been a waste of time from the start. They never wanted a deal, THEY want hard Brexit.

You lack the ability to see them for who they are, this is why you crave to reverse our decision, no matter what the consequences.

Do you seriously believe that stopping or reversing Brexit is less harmful than Brexit itself?

You fail to see the implications.

For the last time.

The EU is a collection of governments it is not an amorphous body. You lack the ability to recognise that its is not a being in its own right. You are incapable of having a rational discussion on the subject without immediately jumping on the reverse the referendum argument. 

 

Edited July 29, 2018 by oowee

[Rewulf]

7 hours ago, oowee said:

For the last time.

The EU is a collection of governments it is not an amorphous body. You lack the ability to recognise that its is not a being in its own right. You are incapable of having a rational discussion on the subject without immediately jumping on the reverse the referendum argument. 

 

And again , you prove that you don't really know what the EU is.

And what it aspires to be.

Why does it get representation at NATO meetings, G20 ect, if it's not a being in its own right, why does it want its own army , why does it seek a common tax policy, why does it refuse to call its members nations , refering to them as 'states', it already has its own laws and constitution, did we get a say in that ?

If you can't see it ,I can't help you.

Just keep believing theyre a trading bloc, and not really the 4th reich.

 

[Gordon R]

Rewulf - you can't make it more plain, but some will refuse to se the truth.

[12gauge82]

9 hours ago, oowee said:

For the last time.

The EU is a collection of governments it is not an amorphous body. You lack the ability to recognise that its is not a being in its own right. You are incapable of having a rational discussion on the subject without immediately jumping on the reverse the referendum argument. 

 

So what is the purpose to the EU commission then? unelected leaders heading the organisation with it's own courts and desperately perusing it's own army.

[old man]

15 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

Out here we used to drive on the left of the road  --  Now we drive on what is left of the road    ----    however nowt to do with Brexit except we may have money to repair them once we leave.

No money after we have left sadly, just more for them to give away to people who have never contributed and nice bungs to their shadowy sponsors. 

I too, believe the EU has aspirations to become a hybrid of a 4th Reich and Napoleonic aims using financial enslavement as a most effective tool. All about subjugation?

Edited July 29, 2018 by old man

[Rewulf]

Next April , according to ' Those who would rather preferred to stay in the EU ' AKA Remainers.