Newbie to this Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 33 minutes ago, oowee said: Panoma. I agree with you certainly in regards to party. I think if we had PR there would be far less party and far more working together for the country. It could well almost be the way things will go, with a 3 or 4 party coalition, being the only way to form a government. That is unless the parties sail their voters down the river, like the lib dems did when they were in coalition with the Conservatives. Politics in the UK is about to change drastically in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 12 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: It could well almost be the way things will go, with a 3 or 4 party coalition, being the only way to form a government. That is unless the parties sail their voters down the river, like the lib dems did when they were in coalition with the Conservatives. Politics in the UK is about to change drastically in my opinion. I do hope so but we are a long way from PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armsid Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 i voted to leave and all the mp,s do is argue about terms and the best for the uk .pity they didn,t argue about all the job losses in the steel industry engineering etc but not a whimper the specials brought out a song ghost town all about the death of coventry as an industrial city .what have we got on the old factory sites kfc b&q carpet kingdom and houses .we as a country should have kept some skills back but no the butts tech closed along with the high skilled staff this happened over 20 yrs ago what did gov do go to eastern europe to recruit lower paid workers and pay tax credits all done by brown why? to drive wages down .we cannot make a nut and bolt let alone a decision that could change the country .we are doomed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 14 hours ago, oowee said: To leave yes. They did not vote for a no deal brexit / WTO it was not on the ballot paper. We seem to be going round in circles here. 🤔 They voted for one of only two options available. There was no WTO option or a no deal or any other option you care to mention, possibly because we were expected to vote to remain. You can't now with hindsight continually claim the people didn't know what they were voting for because they did, and despite all the scaremongering of a collapsing housing market, and everything in between.....including the possibility of World war 3 which even you have to admit is a bit scarier than a no deal brexit, the majority STILL voted to leave. 5 hours ago, oowee said: If we leave without a deal we will be going back cap in hand to get one. We will then sign up for the things that we are, at the moment, prepared to give away. It is nonsense. Just opinion, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, armsid said: i voted to leave and all the mp,s do is argue about terms and the best for the uk .pity they didn,t argue about all the job losses in the steel industry engineering etc but not a whimper the specials brought out a song ghost town all about the death of coventry as an industrial city .what have we got on the old factory sites kfc b&q carpet kingdom and houses .we as a country should have kept some skills back but no the butts tech closed along with the high skilled staff this happened over 20 yrs ago what did gov do go to eastern europe to recruit lower paid workers and pay tax credits all done by brown why? to drive wages down .we cannot make a nut and bolt let alone a decision that could change the country .we are doomed! 🙂 In the 1700's under the land reform act the mayor of london evicted my family from land at Stratford upon Avon and they moved to Coventry to make ribbon. In the 1800's they made bikes, in the 1900's they made cars and then armoured vehicles. Times change and over time markets get undercut. The only way out is be more competitive and knowledge is the way to do it. Much of the old industrial centre of the city is Coventry university this has to be the focus for change. 9 minutes ago, Scully said: We seem to be going round in circles here. 🤔 They voted for one of only two options available. There was no WTO option or a no deal or any other option you care to mention, possibly because we were expected to vote to remain. You can't now with hindsight continually claim the people didn't know what they were voting for because they did, and despite all the scaremongering of a collapsing housing market, and everything in between.....including the possibility of World war 3 which even you have to admit is a bit scarier than a no deal brexit, the majority STILL voted to leave. No circle here. Yes we voted to leave the EU pure and simple. We did not vote to leave the customs union or the single market. 9 minutes ago, Scully said: Just opinion, nothing more. So one reason to leave was to agree new trade deals around the world whilst leaving our biggest market without one Give me a break pls. Edited March 31, 2019 by oowee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 10 minutes ago, oowee said: No circle here. Yes we voted to leave the EU pure and simple. We did not vote to leave the customs union or the single market. Were they options? We didn't agree to remain either but it's looking like a distinct possibility. Round and round and round......... So one reason to leave was to agree new trade deals around the world whilst leaving our biggest market without one Give me a break pls. What is to stop us agreeing new trade deals around the world and in europe? I doubt the German or French car industry will be too chuffed if their respective governments close the British market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 Nothing to stop us agreeing trade deals with the EU but If we leave without a deal we will be going back cap in hand to get one. We will then sign up for the things that we are, at the moment, prepared to give away. Which is a nonsense. If we want to trade with the EU and have a trade deal later it's far better to get one from the inside than it is from the outside. It's not the trade in goods that matters so much as the trade in services. 5 minutes ago, Scully said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 I disagree. Leave first, then negotiate. Cap in hand is again, just your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 I thought Camerons referendum offered stay in or leave, out of customs union and single market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 2 hours ago, oowee said: 🙂 In the 1700's under the land reform act the mayor of london evicted my family from land at Stratford upon Avon and they moved to Coventry to make ribbon. In the 1800's they made bikes, in the 1900's they made cars and then armoured vehicles. Times change and over time markets get undercut. The only way out is be more competitive and knowledge is the way to do it. Much of the old industrial centre of the city is Coventry university this has to be the focus for change. No circle here. Yes we voted to leave the EU pure and simple. We did not vote to leave the customs union or the single market. So one reason to leave was to agree new trade deals around the world whilst leaving our biggest market without one Give me a break pls. Cameron and his leaflet even mentioned leaving the customs Union and single market and they are two of four key rules that form the very core of what being an EU member is, so if we don't leave them, what exactly have we left? You can keep repeating we didn't know what we voted for, but it won't make it true? It's nothing more than rhetoric, designed by remainiac MPs to frustrate Brexit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 From that very leaflet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 2 hours ago, oowee said: Yes we voted to leave the EU pure and simple. We did not vote to leave the customs union or the single market. Are you for real? It was made absolutely clear by both sides that leaving the EU meant leaving the customs union, single market, ECJ and all other EU institutions. The leave campaign claimed this to be a good thing, and remain said it would be bad... but make no mistake EVERYBODY (who was paying attention) knew exactly what they were voting for. To say people didn't vote to leave the CU/SM/ECJ is pure unadulterated rubbish, as you well know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 13 hours ago, Retsdon said: https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2019/03/20/invitation-letter-by-president-donald-tusk-to-the-members-of-the-european-council-ahead-of-their-meetings-on-21-and-22-march-2019/ From Tusk's invitation letter to the members of the council...... In the light of the consultations that I have been conducting over the past days, I believe that we could consider a short extension conditional on a positive vote on the Withdrawal Agreement in the House of Commons. ...........We will discuss it in detail tomorrow. When it comes to the approval of the Strasbourg agreement, I believe that this is possible, and in my view it does not create risks.....At this time I do not foresee an extraordinary European Council. If you were to approve my recommendations, and if there were a positive vote in the House of Commons next week, we could finalise and formalise the decision on the extension using a written procedure....... The European Council will start on Thursday afternoon with our usual exchange with President Tajani. We will then turn to Prime Minister May who will share her assessment of the latest developments regarding Brexit. After this, we will discuss the next steps concerning Brexit at 27. We will reconvene at 28 for dinner to discuss our relations with China..... It's all there for anyone who cares to look. You just need to broaden your reading range beyond your own side's propaganda The whole thing was decided in an hour or so, going by the schedule of the meeting. As for Macron, the Italians, etc, while they might in theory have disapproved an extension they quite obviously didn't feel strongly enough to make it an issue. They've all got more important things on their plates and their worlds don't revolve around the Brexit soap...unlike some others..... I'm sorry, still can't see the the bit where they all sat down and voted UNANIMOUSLY to extend, that's the difference. Did they meet? Did they vote.? Or did they just agree to Tusks extension IF May got her vote through, which she didn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Rewulf said: I'm sorry, still can't see the the bit where they all sat down and voted UNANIMOUSLY to extend, that's the difference. Did they meet? Did they vote.? Or did they just agree to Tusks extension IF May got her vote through, which she didn't? I've had a look (admittedly not spent too much time) and couldn't find anything but the agenda. The minutes of the meeting I can't seem to source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: From that very leaflet! still got my voting card....im going to bloody frame it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 58 minutes ago, poontang said: Are you for real? It was made absolutely clear by both sides that leaving the EU meant leaving the customs union, single market, ECJ and all other EU institutions. The leave campaign claimed this to be a good thing, and remain said it would be bad... but make no mistake EVERYBODY (who was paying attention) knew exactly what they were voting for. To say people didn't vote to leave the CU/SM/ECJ is pure unadulterated rubbish, as you well know! I hear what you are saying but the vote was to leave the EU and about 500+ mp's agree. There were 17m versions of leave many of them different it was not clear to people what they were voting for hence the debate. I can only go by what was on the paper Leave the EU or stay. Everything else, bus, ww3 easy deals, world crying out for business everything but what was on the paper BS. Everybody paying attention knew that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 Err how hard is it to accept that being in the eu gives us access to customs union, trade, free movement ECJ etc. So leaving means we are not part of them.. Christ i thought voting leave made us dumb but come on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 10 minutes ago, poontang said: Are you for real? It was made absolutely clear by both sides that leaving the EU meant leaving the customs union, single market, ECJ and all other EU institutions. The leave campaign claimed this to be a good thing, and remain said it would be bad... but make no mistake EVERYBODY (who was paying attention) knew exactly what they were voting for. To say people didn't vote to leave the CU/SM/ECJ is pure unadulterated rubbish, as you well know! Spot on. To add, the original referendum to stay in what was then the customs Union had absaloutly no information of what it would turn into and it was sealed under the official secrets act, so if ever we didn't know what we voted for, it was the original common market and by many of the remainers reasoning, we should have left years ago as we didn't know what we voted for. 16 minutes ago, oowee said: I hear what you are saying but the vote was to leave the EU and about 500+ mp's agree. There were 17m versions of leave many of them different it was not clear to people what they were voting for hence the debate. I can only go by what was on the paper Leave the EU or stay. Everything else, bus, ww3 easy deals, world crying out for business everything but what was on the paper BS. Everybody paying attention knew that. The core of the EU is made of 4 rules, if we don't leave them weve left nothing, you can't leave a club and set up a new one exactly the same and claim we've left. We'll you could, but it would be silly and not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said: Err how hard is it to accept that being in the eu gives us access to customs union, trade, free movement ECJ etc. So leaving means we are not part of them.. Christ i thought voting leave made us dumb but come on.... Thats incorrect. We have access by virtue of our full membership. Others have access without membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, oowee said: Thats incorrect. We have access by virtue of our full membership. Others have access without membership. Our current deal does that, but leaving means we'd drop out of all Of that, and that WAS told to everyone leading up to thd vote.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 20 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said: Our current deal does that, but leaving means we'd drop out of all Of that, and that WAS told to everyone leading up to thd vote.. Take a look at this for some of the things that we were told that did not happen. The choice was leave the EU or stay. We chose leave the EU nothing more. End of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said: To add, the original referendum to stay in what was then the customs Union had absaloutly no information of what it would turn into and it was sealed under the official secrets act, so if ever we didn't know what we voted for, it was the original common market and by many of the remainers reasoning, we should have left years ago as we didn't know what we voted for. I watched something last week about the Tories and how Maggie Thatcher tried getting us out before being knifed in the back, and how ever since the Tories have been trying to get someone to lead the party whilst being tough on Europe, Seems were still waiting. 3 hours ago, poontang said: Are you for real? It was made absolutely clear by both sides that leaving the EU meant leaving the customs union, single market, ECJ and all other EU institutions. The leave campaign claimed this to be a good thing, and remain said it would be bad... but make no mistake EVERYBODY (who was paying attention) knew exactly what they were voting for. To say people didn't vote to leave the CU/SM/ECJ is pure unadulterated rubbish, as you well know! bang on, we wanted out of Europes control in all areas, then we deal with who we want how we want, without having to except ridiculous rules for the privilege. 3 hours ago, Newbie to this said: I've had a look (admittedly not spent too much time) and couldn't find anything but the agenda. The minutes of the meeting I can't seem to source. Probably already decided between Germany and France, few phone calls and everyone told "this is what's happening" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 38 minutes ago, oowee said: Take a look at this for some ALL of the things that we were told by remoaners that did not happen. We could go round in circles on this this....all this immediately after June 23rd '16... project fear Cretin Osbournes Emergency budget recession £4k per household scotland leave the UK Back of the queue Planes grounded economic meltdown after ref the city ceasing to exist large scale unemployment bank of england-technical recession-http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/05/bank-england-admits-michael-fish-moment-dire-brexit-predictions/ WW3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Bazooka Joe said: We could go round in circles on this this....all this immediately after June 23rd '16... project fear Cretin Osbournes Emergency budget recession £4k per household scotland leave the UK Back of the queue Planes grounded economic meltdown after ref the city ceasing to exist large scale unemployment bank of england-technical recession-http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/05/bank-england-admits-michael-fish-moment-dire-brexit-predictions/ WW3 That is exactly the point I am making 👍. None of it was on the ballot paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 48 minutes ago, oowee said: That is exactly the point I am making 👍. None of it was on the ballot paper. Maybe not, but all that project fear was in evidence prior to and during the referendum, after the referendum project fear continued, it was the start of the establishments fight to overturn Brexit!....it continues today unabated!....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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