Brexit - merged threads

[oowee]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Sorry Sir ..didnt realise I had to report back as quick as that, hour drive to work and all that 😄

Ill say this, if the people on 6 figure salaries cant work out a simple solution to a fairly simple problem, maybe a lowly garage worker can point them in the right direction.

First of all Norway Sweden border.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–Sweden_border

'Both countries are members of the Schengen Area, and there are therefore no immigration controls. However, only Sweden is part of the European Union (and crucially the European Union Customs Union) and there are customs checks between the two countries. These checks are performed by the Norwegian Customs and Excise Authorities and the Swedish Customs Service.^[3] These checks are sporadic along the Norway–Sweden border. Cars are usually not forced to stop. To combat drug smuggling, the use of CCTV surveillance has recently been increased, with systems using Automatic number plate recognition being rolled-out in 2016 and 2017.'

Yep that would work with free movement of people, contributions to EU budget, agreement to follow EU rules (without input) and tariffs payable on Agri and fish. I guess the Brexitards wont go for it though.

[das]

On 01/08/2019 at 08:58, oowee said:

At last the Government has got the cheque book out. Better late than never. £2bn should help with marketing the Bexit prep and create 500 border force jobs too. If they are quick off the mark they may be able to fill the jobs with some of the returning Europeans. More good news in that it looks like Gove will be buying up lots of lamb but has nowhere to store it? I am sure we all have room in our freezers for some, i certainly do. We can at last tell those NZ farmers where to stuff it and start eating our own. 

 

👍👍👍

[Rewulf]

22 minutes ago, oowee said:

Yep that would work with free movement of people, contributions to EU budget, agreement to follow EU rules (without input) and tariffs payable on Agri and fish. I guess the Brexitards wont go for it though.

The question was about the NI border originally, and how it COULD work, rather than this weird doomsday scenario with armed guards and watch towers the lefty press seems to delight in.

But now we are here, why not ?
Free movement of people, YES , just no benefits claimants unless youve worked here so many years , and VICE VERSA.

Contributions to EU budget, what for , admin ? OK , and VICE VERSA.

Agreement to follow EU rules, if applicable to trade, YES , AND VICE VERSA.

Tariffs on agri and fish , YES ,BOTH WAYS.

Do you think Brussels will go for it ?
Dont be ridiculous, of course not , they want it all THEIR way, to protect their precious single market and customs union, you have to pay to use theirs, so once we leave without a free trade agreement, they are going to have to pay to use OURS.

It only seems fair.

These free ports will put the wind up them , a Singapore or Hong Kong style clearing house right on their doorstep, Junker will wet his pants..again.

[oowee]

11 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

The question was about the NI border originally, and how it COULD work, rather than this weird doomsday scenario with armed guards and watch towers the lefty press seems to delight in.

But now we are here, why not ?
Free movement of people, YES , just no benefits claimants unless youve worked here so many years , and VICE VERSA.

Contributions to EU budget, what for , admin ? OK , and VICE VERSA.

Agreement to follow EU rules, if applicable to trade, YES , AND VICE VERSA.

Tariffs on agri and fish , YES ,BOTH WAYS.

Do you think Brussels will go for it ?
Dont be ridiculous, of course not , they want it all THEIR way, to protect their precious single market and customs union, you have to pay to use theirs, so once we leave without a free trade agreement, they are going to have to pay to use OURS.

It only seems fair.

These free ports will put the wind up them , a Singapore or Hong Kong style clearing house right on their doorstep, Junker will wet his pants..again.

It's the EU administrative controls and legislation that obviates the need for the border controls. Agree to them and no border controls simples. 

[Rewulf]

20 minutes ago, oowee said:

It's the EU administrative controls and legislation that obviates the need for the border controls. Agree to them and no border controls simples. 

You mean, do whatever the EU says and they'll LET you TRADE with them. 

The border exists because they WANT it to, even when they didn't exist before, it FORCES membership, its doing it to Switzerland right now. 

Believe it or not trade can exist without the EU. 

If you stand back and look at it critically, what does the EU actually do? 

Retsdons question was how do we deal with the Irish border question? 

The answer is easy, imagine the EU never existed, and base the solution upon that premise. 

 

[oowee]

14 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

You mean, do whatever the EU says and they'll LET you TRADE with them. 

The border exists because they WANT it to, even when they didn't exist before, it FORCES membership, its doing it to Switzerland right now. 

Believe it or not trade can exist without the EU. 

If you stand back and look at it critically, what does the EU actually do? 

Retsdons question was how do we deal with the Irish border question? 

The answer is easy, imagine the EU never existed, and base the solution upon that premise. 

 

This is obfuscation. The border exists because the EU members want to protect our market. We are now choosing to step outside of this arrangement.

Accept the border with no controls or accept the controls with no border, it could not be more simple. 

At the moment it's for the kipper to decide. 

It's the UK that wants to step out so that it can take advantage of the fantastic trade opportunities that exist outside of the EU. Trade opportunities that currently exist but which lack profitability, because WTO terms currently apply. At the same time we are going to take the very profitable trading that we have with the EU and opt out in favour of trading on WTO terms. Electing for the very terms that make some trading outside of the EU unprofitable. Sounds like a good move. 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

This is obfuscation. The border exists because the EU members want to protect our market. We are now choosing to step outside of this arrangement.

Accept the border with no controls or accept the controls with no border, it could not be more simple

Protect it from what? Cheap imports from China, Taiwan, India or Brazil? 

It's a good job it stops all them isn't it 🤣

All it does is exact a tariff, and we still buy them by the bucket load, and the EU makes money.. Off us.. Because the Chinese ect, slap it on the price of the product! 

How is this protecting us. 

The whole border issue is a smoke and mirrors fallacy, in virtually every scenario. 

[oowee]

It will be easier to protect our market from open competition when we are alone.  Fortunately we have plenty of fat in our system. 

[Rewulf]

 

1997

[ditchman]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

It will be easier to protect our market from open competition when we are alone.  Fortunately we have plenty of fat in our system. 

and most of it is from the belly button down to the hips in the House of Lords....

[Yellow Bear]

3 minutes ago, ditchman said:

and most of it is from the belly button down to the hips in the House of Lords....

and amongst senior civil servants

[Capt Christopher Jones]

10 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Gordon Bennet, men of principle I see!

they wi8ll then get a pension too

[Retsdon]

19 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Both countries are members of the Schengen Area, and there are therefore no immigration controls.

So anyone from Europe could come into the UK as long as they come in through N Ireland? The Schengen thing works ( or is supposed to work) because the EU has a hard external border.

 

16 hours ago, oowee said:

and there are customs checks between the two countries.

Let's leave it there shall we...

Edited August 4, 2019 by Retsdon

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, Retsdon said:

So anyone from Europe could come into the UK as long as they come in through N Ireland. 

Are you being serious? After even the hardest brexit, people can still come to the UK from Europe, we aren't closing our borders! 

 

2 hours ago, Retsdon said:

 The Schengen thing works ( or is supposed to work) because the EU has a hard external border.

Yeah right! 😂

[Scully]

I am informed by a friend who regularly travels to Sweden, that the trains are regularly boarded by police patrolling the border areas, and many would be immigrants are removed from those trains and returned to their country of origin without delay. 

 

[armsid]

just watched the video put up by rewulf  absolutely spot on! just one question what type of border does turkey have with EU Transit vans are made there but not a word was said when the factory closed BEFORE BREXIT 

[Vince Green]

Nobody cares about Ireland, its just a red herring. If Ireland is worried about its border its up to Ireland to do something about it not us. Its not our problem

 

 

10 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Do you have any coherent input on this conversation? 

What else do you have but insults, trolling, and rambling analogies that make no sense? 

It's all a bit weird frankly. 

His incoherent trolling activities usually take place late evening, reading between the lines, I think we can work out why  

Edited August 5, 2019 by Vince Green

[Nuke]

23 hours ago, Scully said:

I am informed by a friend who regularly travels to Sweden, that the trains are regularly boarded by police patrolling the border areas, and many would be immigrants are removed from those trains and returned to their country of origin without delay. 

 

True but it is only the commuter trains from Denmark that are being checked.

/M

[Rewulf]

50 minutes ago, Nuke said:

True but it is only the commuter trains from Denmark that are being checked.

/M

Between Denmark and Sweden ? Theres only one I believe, over the Oresund bridge ?

There are many train crossings between Norway and Sweden, and are supposedly subject to random checks ?

What Im saying is , the movement of people between the 2 borders, is an agreement that doesnt require a hard border, with checks ect.
Ireland had this agreement long before the EU existed, its only the EU who talk of 'hard borders' no one else wants or needs it.

You could say that a soft Irish border makes entry into the UK easy for EU citizens ?
But no one is suggesting that EU citizens wont be able to visit he UK after we leave with no deal, they just wont have the 'rights' to come over, settle, and use public and social services, the 'free movement' defined by being a member.
Its fairly simple, no guard towers, no armed border force pointing weapons at you, just the same kind of checks you get when you visit Turkey, and probably less than when you visit the US, or return to a UK airport , and no one seem to moan about that.

[Zapp]

More posts have been removed because of name calling.  If you want this thread to continue, debate without making it personal, as I believe we have had cause to say twice within a week.

[Retsdon]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

just the same kind of checks you get when you visit Turkey, and probably less than when you visit the US, or return to a UK airport ....

That's funny...

[Rewulf]

7 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

That's funny...

Good input as usual 

[Retsdon]

8 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Good input as usual 

Well, the whole idea of the backstop is to do away with a need for any kind of a border at all. Because, as Patrick Cockburn points out in the Independent, aside from anything else any kind of border construction that delineates north from south will almost certainly be a target for sabotage. So then it will need defending, and if you're not very careful you will end up with the scenario of armed security forces manning a political border across the island of Ireland.  And we all know how that finished up the last time?

The examples you cited in your post are, in fact, very hard borders indeed. 

1) The US - Canada border 2) The Bulgarian -Turkish border 3) Heathrow airport

Good luck with putting anything like these up between Armagh and Monaghan!

That's why I said your post was funny ....

 

[Rewulf]

22 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Well, the whole idea of the backstop is to do away with a need for any kind of a border at all. Because, as Patrick Cockburn points out in the Independent, aside from anything else any kind of border construction that delineates north from south will almost certainly be a target for sabotage. So then it will need defending, and if you're not very careful you will end up with the scenario of armed security forces manning a political border across the island of Ireland.  And we all know how that finished up the last time?

Is there a 'hard' border there now ? No

Was there a 'hard'  border there before , Yes , but only due to the troubles.
There has never been  a customs border between the North and South.

Who is talking about putting a hard border up ?

And whats this about armed security 'manning a political border' ?
Whos going to do that ? And why ?

Does Eire want a hard border? No
Does NI want a hard border ? No
Does the UK want a hard border ? No

So again, who is talking about hard borders ? The EU .
And please dont start with the 'integrity' of its borders rubbish.
Its a whipping post to try to make our exit as difficult as possible, and nothing more.

At least admit that.

[Rewulf]

'This will probably take a few days to filter down into main stream news.

The President of the European Central Bank, Mario Draghi, has announced a series of monetary stimulus packages aimed at keeping the eurozone alive. It comes as major criticism has been placed on the eurozone, as many now argue that monetary union is not possible without fiscal alliance.

Mario Draghi said: “This outlook is getting worse and worse,” Draghi said in Frankfurt on Thursday after a meeting of the ECB’s Governing Council. “It’s getting worse and worse in manufacturing, especially, and it’s getting worse and worse in those countries where manufacturing is very important.”.

Interest rates are to be kept notoriously low and a fresh round of quantitative easing (QE) is expected. The ECB has pumped in an extra €2 trillion of QE since 2016 with limited results. Many are now suggesting that the ECB needs to look at its policy ideas more closely.

The eurozone is facing increasing pressure with extremely high budget deficits in Southern European countries, high youth unemployment and sluggish economic growth, it’s now clear to see why the United Kingdom is jumping ship.'

Expect the fiscal alliance issue  to be pushed hard in the coming months.

As always, its not about reform, its about MORE EU.