Brexit - merged threads

[TIGHTCHOKE]

6 minutes ago, motty said:

Exactly. I believe the constant remoaner bleating has helped hamper the path to democracy.

It certainly has.

[scouser]

If only UKIP was still around, that was a one trick pony,and that was to get us OUT.

[12gauge82]

I think farage may well be making a reappearance if a true brexit is not delivered, I and I'm sure many other will not forget when the polling stations open.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

6 minutes ago, scouser said:

If only UKIP was still around, that was a one trick pony,and that was to get us OUT.

It did exactly what it said on the tin, it was instrumental in getting the referendum.

[Retsdon]

21 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Under the terms of leave, it's really very simple, we voted to leave the customs union,

OK fine. So under what terms do you propose to trade with the EU, or the rest of the world come to that considering that when we leave the single market we'll no longer be under the umbrella of previously EU negotiated arrangements. The modern world works in trade blocs. Which one are we going to join?

I really don't mean to be difficult here, But 'facts are chiels that w'inna ging' ' as the old Scottish bard said,

Edited July 9, 2018 by Retsdon

[ShootingEgg]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

reality of the vote dawned on the dim witted slow learners that supported it.

Good to see your veiw in people who voted to leave as dim witted and slow learners. 

 

[oowee]

43 minutes ago, besty57 said:

Bit of a cheek you lot have spent over two years moaning about the result,

Yep you got me there ??

[Bazooka Joe]

10 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think farage may well be making a reappearance if a true brexit is not delivered, I and I'm sure many other will not forget when the polling stations open.

Farage has just said that if brexit doesn't get back on track he'll back campaigning & Ukip back in the limelight.

[Newbie to this]

52 minutes ago, oowee said:

 

Just out of curiosity, 

Why do you wish the UK to remain in the EU?

Do you have a vested interest in the EU?

Because I personally can't see one good reason for the UK to stay in the EU.

I'm not having a pop, I'm genuinely curious, I personally know people who wanted the UK to remain, but they had a vested interest with their businesses.

[12gauge82]

11 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

OK fine. So under what terms do you propose to trade with the EU, or the rest of the world come to that considering that when we leave the single market we'll no longer be under the umbrella of previously EU negotiated arrangements. The modern world works in trade blocs. Which one are we going to join?

I really don't mean to be difficult here, But 'facts are chiels that w'inna ging' ' as the old Scottish bard said,

That's not for me to work out, the referendum was held and the country decided to leave, if Europe want to trade with us after we leave then that's good for both of us, but if the government had no intention of delivering what they promised when they held the referendum they shouldn't have held it, but they did so it's time to leave.

[Scully]

3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

That's not for me to work out, the referendum was held and the country decided to leave, if Europe want to trade with us after we leave then that's good for both of us, but if the government had no intention of delivering what they promised when they held the referendum they shouldn't have held it, but they did so it's time to leave.

Fair comment, but at the time I doubt very much Cameron had considered the possibility of the vote being OUT. 

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said:

That's not for me to work out, the referendum was held and the country decided to leave, if Europe want to trade with us after we leave then that's good for both of us, but if the government had no intention of delivering what they promised when they held the referendum they shouldn't have held it, but they did so it's time to leave.

Like i said, the devil is in the detail. I'm an emotional Brexiter btw, and although being non-resident so not having a vote, I'd probably have voted with my heart had I had one. But that said, the sheer lack of awareness of reality from this government and the media in general about the consequences of crashing out of the EU is actually really scary.

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, Scully said:

Fair comment, but at the time I doubt very much Cameron had considered the possibility of the vote being OUT. 

Nail on the head mate, which leads me back to my point, you can't hold a referendum if your not prepared to abide by the outcome, it has clearly been a propaganda exercise where leave was never meant to be able to win so that "democracy" could be seen to be done.

[Retsdon]

3 minutes ago, Scully said:

doubt very much Cameron had considered the possibility of the vote being OUT. 

In one. There was no plan planned.

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, Retsdon said:

Like i said, the devil is in the detail. I'm an emotional Brexiter btw, and although being non-resident so not having a vote, I'd probably have voted with my heart had I had one. But that said, the sheer lack of awareness of reality from this government and the media in general about the consequences of crashing out of the EU is actually really scary.

Your of course spot on, the real point here is the government has looked at the people as a bunch of idiots to be manipulated, they should have been prepared for a leave outcome but they arrogantly thought they could fix the result for remain, well they need to deliver no or face the consequences at the polling booth.

[Retsdon]

2 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

or face the consequences at the polling booth.

You mean Corbyn's Labour?

But my apologies, bed time here.....

Edited July 9, 2018 by Retsdon

[12gauge82]

4 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

You mean Corbyn's Labour?

But my apologies, bed time here.....

No I mean someone like farage starting a new party, there'll be plenty of disgruntled Brexiters looking for a new party to defect to if May continues her current course.

[Mice!]

Don't think a new party is going to help, you would end up with the other parties rejects, they would have brexit as there goal but then what?

Labour getting in is far to scary to think about another election surely??

18 minutes ago, Scully said:

Fair comment, but at the time I doubt very much Cameron had considered the possibility of the vote being OUT. 

Yep, probably thought give them a choice they will bottle it, and i will rein supreme.

whoops.

[12gauge82]

Well I'm at the point I would vote a donkey in if they would deliver brexit, at least that would be democratic, I refuse to accept a dictatorship as my government, it's disgraceful how May is treating the millions who voted to leave.

[Good shot?]

The PM is looking for a deal that Brussels will accept.She has obviously took her eye off the ball, she should be looking for a deal that the electorate voted for and failing that walk away.

Or is she still the remainer she always was and is going for a 'soft' exit. Now Gove is telling us how good it is, he is strictly following his PM's line and is totally unbelievable.

I for one know exactly what I voted for even though we are regularly told by the remoaners that no one knew what was entailed and twist the facts to suit.

This proposed deal is a betrayal of what is needed and is worse than a 'No Deal' in my opinion.

We should walk away as I don't believe the EU would concede any of our red line points.

[12gauge82]

6 minutes ago, Good shot? said:

The PM is looking for a deal that Brussels will accept.She has obviously took her eye off the ball, she should be looking for a deal that the electorate voted for and failing that walk away.

Or is she still the remainer she always was and is going for a 'soft' exit. Now Gove is telling us how good it is, he is strictly following his PM's line and is totally unbelievable.

I for one know exactly what I voted for even though we are regularly told by the remoaners that no one knew what was entailed and twist the facts to suit.

This proposed deal is a betrayal of what is needed and is worse than a 'No Deal' in my opinion.

We should walk away as I don't believe the EU would concede any of our red line points.

Spot on

[Paul1440]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

Well I'm at the point I would vote a donkey in if they would deliver brexit, at least that would be democratic, I refuse to accept a dictatorship as my government, it's disgraceful how May is treating the millions who voted to leave.

At least one vote for Boris then. ?

[oowee]

4 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

Just out of curiosity, 

Why do you wish the UK to remain in the EU?

Do you have a vested interest in the EU?

Because I personally can't see one good reason for the UK to stay in the EU.

I'm not having a pop, I'm genuinely curious, I personally know people who wanted the UK to remain, but they had a vested interest with their businesses.

For me it's an easy one. The West has grown economically on the back of it's exploitation of labour and resources from around the world. Our wealth is now under threat from lower cost economies that will out compete the West on price. We compete on quality, innovation and style. Over time the margins in these areas will be eroded. One way to resist this erosion is through protectionism which we can do through standards of safety in manufacture process, quality standards for products and through enforced environmental standards. It's easier to do this in a larger trading group of nations. The EU is an ideal vehicle for this. It's policy of bringing new nations in and then assisting them to modernise and become more effective trading nations, increases its economic mass. The larger the market the easier it is to raise the internal standards.  

[Mice!]

4 hours ago, oowee said:

For me it's an easy one. The West has grown economically on the back of it's exploitation of labour and resources from around the world. Our wealth is now under threat from lower cost economies that will out compete the West on price. We compete on quality, innovation and style. Over time the margins in these areas will be eroded. One way to resist this erosion is through protectionism which we can do through standards of safety in manufacture process, quality standards for products and through enforced environmental standards. It's easier to do this in a larger trading group of nations. The EU is an ideal vehicle for this. It's policy of bringing new nations in and then assisting them to modernise and become more effective trading nations, increases its economic mass. The larger the market the easier it is to raise the internal standards.  

I kind of see what your saying, but manufacturing is already being done at lower cost abroad, there aren't many companies that aren't already using India and china, plus others to produce parts at a fraction of the cost compared to being made in Britain, so i don't see how us leaving Europe affects this.

 

[12gauge82]

8 hours ago, oowee said:

For me it's an easy one. The West has grown economically on the back of it's exploitation of labour and resources from around the world. Our wealth is now under threat from lower cost economies that will out compete the West on price. We compete on quality, innovation and style. Over time the margins in these areas will be eroded. One way to resist this erosion is through protectionism which we can do through standards of safety in manufacture process, quality standards for products and through enforced environmental standards. It's easier to do this in a larger trading group of nations. The EU is an ideal vehicle for this. It's policy of bringing new nations in and then assisting them to modernise and become more effective trading nations, increases its economic mass. The larger the market the easier it is to raise the internal standards.  

what industry do you work in oowee?