Lord Geordie Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) Personally I am not in a position to comment for or against as I am not in full possession of facts. I don’t trust politicians! It’s that simple. Through the 70s 80s naughties and now they have ALWAYS lied to get into power, be it spin or plain old whoppers. But that aside, the vote was cast that the UK was to leave the EU. In my view we need to stop acting like spoiled children on both sides, and remember we have to work with that guy next to you, you probably drink next to him in the pub, your child is possibly being taught by him, or he could be the surgeon saving your life. Personally I would like to see us leave with nothing! Then after a period of collecting ourselves, see what deals are available not only with the rest of the world, but with Europe too. As Teal has said, a fresh start to the thread, why not to our negotiations with the EU? Edited August 28, 2019 by Lord Geordie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Teal said: The point is that there has been far worse on the topic. It has been removed from view. Speaking from a lot of experience on the Brexit topic, it always follows a familiar pattern, when insults start to be thrown, and it escalates. If we turn a blind eye, then others see it as being acceptable, and the insults get worse. It no longer becomes an interesting place of commentary, but slides into unpleasantness. It is pretty simple, we have a no insults policy. Then we don't have to decide on where exactly the line is crossed. I'd like to think people can respect that, at the umpteenth time of asking! Anyway clean slate, back to Brexit. Let's see what happens. Fair enough……. although I'm having a pound on handbags at ten paces🤪 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 37 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: A part of me hopes that Liz tells BoJo to do one but the reality appears to be that the only way out of this mess is through one undemocratic means or the other - if the means serves your agenda then it might still be prudent to acknowledge what an absolute shambles and mockery it makes of our once great union. It's going to be very difficult to ever regain our international standing after this debacle. You do know HM is a staunch Brexiteer , dont you ? I heard she was a fully paid up (secret) member of the Brexit party 😂 Seriously though, although there is 'outrage' at the 'undemocratic' means that Boris has employed, these unusual times call for unusual measures, and the loudest voices this morning are coming from those that have behaved in , by far , the most undemocratic way. Ive just been listening to soubry on local radio, screeching about how Boris doesnt have a mandate to do this. Does she have a mandate to oppose Brexit, against the wishes of her constituency ? Hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDon Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 I’m glad he’s is trying this, purely because the vacillation needs to end. No deal or revocation, I don’t care which but I want to get on with dealing with the wreckage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 24 minutes ago, Rewulf said: You do know HM is a staunch Brexiteer , dont you ? I heard she was a fully paid up (secret) member of the Brexit party 😂 Indeed, obvious from here choice of outfit in the pic. Seriously though, although there is 'outrage' at the 'undemocratic' means that Boris has employed, these unusual times call for unusual measures, and the loudest voices this morning are coming from those that have behaved in , by far , the most undemocratic way. Ive just been listening to soubry on local radio, screeching about how Boris doesnt have a mandate to do this. Does she have a mandate to oppose Brexit, against the wishes of her constituency ? Hypocrite. I don't think there's anything to be gained from going over the Soubry gig again - I fully understand how she has infuriated Brexiteers but maintain none of that justifies the abuse and threats she has been subjected to. And I believe someone is doing a five year stretch as a result of such threats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu64 Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 It must be plain to everyone by now that Europe won't give a deal that doesn't involve the Irish backdoor. Even then, what deal would it be? In the eyes of Europe, we can't be seen to be better off out of the E.U.- that would be a disaster for Brussels. I think if Boris agreed to the irish backstop they would come up with something else that he couldn't agree to just to make sure we don't get a deal. Time for talking is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: don't think there's anything to be gained from going over the Soubry gig again - I fully understand how she has infuriated Brexiteers but maintain none of that justifies the abuse and threats she has been subjected to. And I believe someone is doing a five year stretch as a result of such threats That's the thing, She's the one being vocal about it, she's the one who won't let it rest. She does not have the support of her constituency in this, and fully accepts her parliamentary career is over come next election. For the record, no one is doing a 5 stretch for threatening her, a man got 8 weeks for death threats against her last year, and Goddard who called her a nazi, got a suspended sentence. 1 minute ago, stu64 said: It must be plain to everyone by now that Europe won't give a deal that doesn't involve the Irish backdoor. Even then, what deal would it be? In the eyes of Europe, we can't be seen to be better off out of the E.U.- that would be a disaster for Brussels. I think if Boris agreed to the irish backstop they would come up with something else that he couldn't agree to just to make sure we don't get a deal. Time for talking is done. Exactly. The situation is a direct result of Brussels strategy, with the help of UK remainder mps. They expected us to give in, we didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said: I don't agree at all. If we had a referendum ........ and our leaders totally fail to carry out it's result - that would be true, but if we now get on and clearly leave we will be seen to be standing up for ourselves and siezing back the control that was promised. Well said. Agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 Parliament voted against the deal three times, let us not forget that fact. Now a bunch of political misfits think that if they can band together in sufficient numbers they can bring down parliament. Maybe they can - who knows? But if they succeed what are we all going to wake up to the following morning? Anarchy that's what, its not going to just go away like a bad dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, Rewulf said: For the record, no one is doing a 5 stretch for threatening her, a man got 8 weeks for death threats against her last year, and Goddard who called her a nazi, got a suspended sentence. I was referring to Jack Renshaw, sorry I should have used similar instead of such (threats) - I think Renshaw was actually sentenced to life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 The UK voted to leave. Parliament was getting in the way. Boris has removed the obstacle. Bravo ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 Corbyn steps up for democracy! https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/corbyn-queen-meeting-boris-johnson-suspend-parliament-prorogue-labour-a9082056.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1566995624 Something he doesn't actually believe in 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrycatcat1 Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 Interesting times ahead. If the remainers within parliament do prevent the suspension then Boris has few options. Having set the table nicely he will most likely call an election. The remainers within his party would probably be de-selected and farage would run against labour/libs elsewhere. This could lead to a smattering of labour from the south east and a conservative/brexit majority with a bit of snp knocking about to cherp about independence on slow news days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 The Queen has approved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Smokersmith said: The Queen has approved it. https://leftfootforward.org/2019/08/legal-challenge-to-pms-suspension-of-parliament-could-be-fast-tracked/ And the remainers have predictably put a legal challenge in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, GingerCat said: Having set the table nicely he will most likely call an election. Boris can't simply do that. He needs a 2/3 majority (I think) under the fixed term Parliament Act. If it looked like he might win (which if Farage plays ball is highly likely) - then Labour and SNP might not vote for an election ........ in which case I don't quite know what happens. I guess he has to get one of his own side to call a vote of no confidence - and loose it - then prevent anyone else being able to form a government within 14 days - at which time he gets an election. But he has to EITHER loose a vote of no confidence AND no one else be able to get confidence - OR get a 2/3 majority to disolve Parliament and call an election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, GingerCat said: And the remainers have predictably put a legal challenge in. The Courts CANNOT challenge the Queen (in her capacity as Sovereign) - as they are upholding her law as she is Head of State and Head of the Judiciary. They can only challenge the advice given to the queen. Incidentally, calling for the abolition of the Monarchy (as some might think to do) in print is still technically illegal - sentence life imprisonment under the Treason Felony Act of 1848. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 Whilst the focus of this planned prorogation appears to be around forcing through no deal could it not equally be used as a way of forcing through a modified version of the WA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: Boris can't simply do that. He needs a 2/3 majority (I think) under the fixed term Parliament Act. If it looked like he might win (which if Farage plays ball is highly likely) - then Labour and SNP might not vote for an election ........ in which case I don't quite know what happens. I guess he has to get one of his own side to call a vote of no confidence - and loose it - then prevent anyone else being able to form a government within 14 days - at which time he gets an election. But he has to EITHER loose a vote of no confidence AND no one else be able to get confidence - OR get a 2/3 majority to disolve Parliament and call an election. Labour has been calling for an election for the last 3 years, I strongly doubt they would back out now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, GingerCat said: Labour has been calling for an election for the last 3 years, I strongly doubt they would back out now. Labour backed leaving the EU at the last election. Labour has now decided to campaign for remain in a 'peoples vote' which they propose. Labour promised a vote of no confidence as soon as Johnson was elected - but didn't as they know they would probably loose a resultant election Labour cannot be trusted to do anything they say. They will not trigger an election unless they are pretty certain they can win. Corbyn's lefty masters (Momentum and Union bosses) know that they would likely loose votes and control of the party if they keep loosing elections. They have to be confident of a win if they trigger an election. Edited August 28, 2019 by JohnfromUK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 May end up being a last desperate throw of the dice .. like the aussie review of Leach's LBW that was clearly pitching outside leg!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgyrog Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 Queen has approved it! Woo Hoo excellent news! Stuff you lefties, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said: Labour backed leaving the EU at the last election. Labour has now decided to campaign for remain in a 'peoples vote' which they propose. Labour promised a vote of no confidence as soon as Johnson was elected - but didn't as they know they would probably loose a resultant election Labour cannot be trusted to do anything they say. They will not trigger an election unless they are pretty certain they can win. Corbyn's lefty masters (Momentum and Union bosses) know that they would likely loose votes and control of the party if they keep loosing elections. They have to be confident of a win if they trigger an election. I don't disagree with anything you've said however if bojo called for one they would find it harder to back out than of hitting a 90 yard driven pheasant in the dark with an airgun with their eyes closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 Just now, GingerCat said: I don't disagree with anything you've said however if bojo called for one they would find it harder to back out than of hitting a 90 yard driven pheasant in the dark with an airgun with their eyes closed. I like the analogy, but Corbyn could (and would) back out of anything and still claim he has 'the moral high ground' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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