Coronavirus (Covid-19) Is this it?

[grrclark]

 

12 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I cannot vouch for how 'true' it is, but it is in several places, this being one https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-australia-queensland-researchers-find-cure-want-drug-trial/news-story/93e7656da0cff4fc4d2c5e51706accb5

Great, at least there is an attributable source in that article so it already elevates it above the "shared from a friend" nonsense on social media.

The article is heavily caveated, but fantastic if drugs with proven efficacy elsewhere are effective in treating the disease, however compare a caveated article that suggests and promotes further research with a named and verifiable source versus the "i've heard that anti-malarial drugs are the cure and China has been buying them up".

I simply wish that people actually consider things a little more critically.  Our government today announced an unprecedented level of monetary and fiscal support, in peacetime, to mitigate against the massive socia-economic turmoil this pandemic is causing, but someone on facebook has the simple answer...

[grrclark]

11 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

In the space of an hour you have stropped off about two posts that are on topic with at least some merit.

Its looking Mr dot Expert might need to take some calming measures.

On topic maybe, but stupid all the same.

12 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Someone mentioned to me today that we do not seem to have heard any news of this virus in Russia. Their eastern border is not that far from the original outbreak.

As of yesterday the WHO are showing 63 cases in the Russian Federation.  It does seem an unlikely low number given the volume of international travel between the major European centres where there is a significant volume of virus sufferers and Russia, at least up until travel was suspended.

[Mice!]

23 minutes ago, grrclark said:

On topic maybe, but stupid all the same.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-17/covid-19-confusion-over-ibuprofen-guidance/

Seems these stupid comments are all over the internet,  even scientists and government bodies are spouting these stupid comments. 

[12gauge82]

I'm happy to read any non sourced opinions or information which is on topic.

I'm not sure why some on here are taking it upon themselves to be the forum police, I'm sure if there is an issue With any of the posts a mod will step in.

From what I can see, although the original info regarding ibuprofen was factually incorrect or at least unproven, it appears to at least have some relevance at its core, which is that it would be wise to avoid it at the moment.

Edited March 17, 2020 by 12gauge82

[grrclark]

This ^^^ is a stupid post.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-17/covid-19-confusion-over-ibuprofen-guidance/

That one isn't.

There is a huge amount of difference between them.  

[Dave-G]

3 minutes ago, grrclark said:

This ^^^ is a stupid post.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-17/covid-19-confusion-over-ibuprofen-guidance/

That one isn't.

There is a huge amount of difference between them.  

You keep missing the point - that the topic has been raised for discussion and the collective membership has got some more factual information from it.

[grrclark]

3 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

You keep missing the point - that the topic has been raised for discussion and the collective membership has got some more factual information from it.

What factual information is that then?

The one thing that is abundantly clear from all the posts above is an absolute lack of certainty (fact).  It is suggestion and supposition and nothing more.

[12gauge82]

10 minutes ago, grrclark said:

This ^^^ is a stupid post.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-17/covid-19-confusion-over-ibuprofen-guidance/

That one isn't.

There is a huge amount of difference between them.  

True, but at its core was correct information, which is ibuprofen could be harmful if you have contacted Corona virus. I am (as are most people) intelligent enough to filter what is relevant and what isn't.

I can't see the issue with posting anything on topic, let those who read it decide if they want to listen to it. 

[Mice!]

11 minutes ago, grrclark said:

This ^^^ is a stupid post.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-17/covid-19-confusion-over-ibuprofen-guidance/

That one isn't.

There is a huge amount of difference between them.  

Last chance, if I had only put the shared from a friend screenshot then yes, it would be a stupid post, but I didn't,  seeing that made me Google the information and I put it on here once it had been on the NEWS.

How many people would now take Ibuprofen????

I'm guessing nobody unless their doctor told them to.

Still a stupid post?

[Dave-G]

11 minutes ago, grrclark said:

What factual information is that then?

The one thing that is abundantly clear from all the posts above is an absolute lack of certainty (fact).  It is suggestion and supposition and nothing more.

Hmm - OK a slightly bad choice of words from this partially dyslexic member, as was (I assume) the person who wrote the the original facebook post, but the well meaning Ibuprofen alert was there.

Up until this evening I've assumed you were a fairly reasonable bloke - you have now changed that perception with your nit picking.

[grrclark]

3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

True, but at its core was correct information, which is ibuprofen could be harmful if you have contacted Corona virus. I am (as are most people) intelligent enough to filter what is relevant and what isn't.

I can't see the issue with posting anything on topic, let those who read it decide if they want to listen to it. 

It could as equably be non harmful too.  The actual core of the information was that there is no scientific consensus whether it is or is not contributive to a poorer outcome for some people.

4 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Last chance, if I had only put the shared from a friend screenshot then yes, it would be a stupid post, but I didn't,  seeing that made me Google the information and I put it on here once it had been on the NEWS.

How many people would now take Ibuprofen????

I'm guessing nobody unless their doctor told them to.

Still a stupid post?

As i said above there is no scientific consensus and for certain conditions ibuprofen is a hugely effective treatment.  I take it every day to help alleviate the symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis and i will continue to take it as it gives a significant improvement to quality of life in helping to manage the RA as opposed to it might or might not be impactful should i contract covid19.

The point being that there is an absolutely identifiable and quantifiable benefit in taking the drug versus no identified or quantified detrimental factor in not taking it just in case i catch a disease I don't currently have.  There will be millions like me who get a far greater benefit from taking the drug than would be had by not taking it just in case something that the scientific community cant agree on might be true.

The reason I get humpty about the sharing of rumour or misinformation is that people do act on that, especially when they are frightened or scared.  There is a massive amount of misinformation, or fake news, spread on social media.  One of the earliest things the government initiated when covid19 started to impact on the UK was to aggressively target misinformation because it is dangerous.

I think in many ways the mainstream media have been irresponsible in some of their reporting around Covid19 too, but sensation sells copy.  People are terrified about this disease and posts, articles or commentary that spread fear in an unfounded way are part of the reason why.  Likewise there are a number of social media articles i have seen that are irresponsible in promoting snake oil cures too and the scared and vulnerable fall for it, especially if they are given some air of authority or credibility because it was in a newspaper or on a website.

An example, although not referenced on PW, there was a phone in guest on LBC last week advocating the use of homemade hand sanitiser using cheap vodka and aloe vera and nothing was said to challenge that, so folk believe it.  The scientific guidance is that a minimum ABV of 70% is required to break down the virus structure, but folk are splashing themselves with something that will be 30%-35% abv at best and thinking they are safe.

The reason that i challenge the posts that I have is because they deserve to be challenged.  I have no issues at all if folk want to challenge me back, i don't expect to put my head above the parapet and not be shot at.

 

[grrclark]

20 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Hmm - OK a slightly bad choice of words from this partially dyslexic member, as was (I assume) the person who wrote the the original facebook post, but the well meaning Ibuprofen alert was there.

Up until this evening I've assumed you were a fairly reasonable bloke - you have now changed that perception with your nit picking.

I'm sure we will both survive regardless eh?

[12gauge82]

5 minutes ago, grrclark said:

It could as equably be non harmful too.  The actual core of the information was that there is no scientific consensus whether it is or is not contributive to a poorer outcome for some people.

As i said above there is no scientific consensus and for certain conditions ibuprofen is a hugely effective treatment.  I take it every day to help alleviate the symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis and i will continue to take it as it gives a significant improvement to quality of life in helping to manage the RA as opposed to it might or might not be impactful should i contract covid19.

The point being that there is an absolutely identifiable and quantifiable benefit in taking the drug versus no identified or quantified detrimental factor in not taking it just in case i catch a disease I don't currently have.  There will be millions like me who get a far greater benefit from taking the drug than would be had by not taking it just in case something that the scientific community cant agree on might be true.

The reason I get humpty about the sharing of rumour or misinformation is that people do act on that, especially when they are frightened or scared.  There is a massive amount of misinformation, or fake news, spread on social media.  One of the earliest things the government initiated when covid19 started to impact on the UK was to aggressively target misinformation because it is dangerous.

I think in many ways the mainstream media have been irresponsible in some of their reporting around Covid19 too, but sensation sells copy.  People are terrified about this disease and posts, articles or commentary that spread fear in an unfounded way are part of the reason why.  Likewise there are a number of social media articles i have seen that are irresponsible in promoting snake oil cures too and the scared and vulnerable fall for it, especially if they are given some air of authority or credibility because it was in a newspaper or on a website.

An example, although not referenced on PW, there was a phone in guest on LBC last week advocating the use of homemade hand sanitiser using cheap vodka and aloe vera and nothing was said to challenge that, so folk believe it.  The scientific guidance is that a minimum ABV of 70% is required to break down the virus structure, but folk are splashing themselves with something that will be 30%-35% abv at best and thinking they are safe.

The reason that i challenge the posts that I have is because they deserve to be challenged.  I have no issues at all if folk want to challenge me back, i don't expect to put my head above the parapet and not be shot at.

 

Fair enough. That's your choice but I'll make my own, I'm sure you don't have issue with that as I assume we're both adults.

 

[Dave-G]

Have you tried Turmeric for that RA? I have painful shoulder and hip joints if I stop taking mine which also has black pepper in its makeup.

 

I got the tip to try it despite no strong evidence it works - but found it works brilliantly for me - and two of my brothers, one finds it helps his eyesight too. 

[Jim Neal]

7 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Have you tried Turmeric for that RA? I have painful shoulder and hip joints if I stop taking mine which also has black pepper in its makeup.

 

I got the tip to try it despite no strong evidence it works - but found it works brilliantly for me - and two of my brothers, one finds it helps his eyesight too. 

Did your auntie's next-door neighbour re-post the idea on facebook so you took a chance?! 😂 😂

[Dave-G]

7 minutes ago, Jim Neal said:

Did your auntie's next-door neighbour re-post the idea on facebook so you took a chance?! 😂 😂

Ner - one of my brothers. 

 

[grrclark]

3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Fair enough. That's your choice but I'll make my own, I'm sure you don't have issue with that as I assume we're both adults.

None at all.  I''m not promoting that everyone should take it either, i would simply rather people make an informed choice based on credible sources of information rather than social media conjecture.

4 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Have you tried Turmeric for that RA? I have painful shoulder and hip joints if I stop taking mine which also has black pepper in its makeup.

I got the tip to try it despite no strong evidence it works - but found it works brilliantly for me - and two of my brothers, one finds it helps his eyesight too. 

I have tried it and regrettably it doesn't make a difference for me.  I believe there is an evidential base of the properties of turmeric for joint maintenance, but not really looked into it.

I was mostly OK for about 6 years with the disease and then it went a bit mental after getting bitten by a fierce looking caterpillar thing in Italy in 2016, within 6 hours of that bite there was a huge reaction in the symptoms that i had with RA.  Now i have to use a biological drug that heavily suppresses my immune system to keep it in check.  I really wish turmeric did work for me, evidence or not.

[Dave-G]

2 minutes ago, grrclark said:

None at all.  I''m not promoting that everyone should take it either, i would simply rather people make an informed choice based on credible sources of information rather than social media conjecture.

I have tried it and regrettably it doesn't make a difference for me.  I believe there is an evidential base of the properties of turmeric for joint maintenance, but not really looked into it.

I was mostly OK for about 6 years with the disease and then it went a bit mental after getting bitten by a fierce looking caterpillar thing in Italy in 2016, within 6 hours of that bite there was a huge reaction in the symptoms that i had with RA.  Now i have to use a biological drug that heavily suppresses my immune system to keep it in check.  I really wish turmeric did work for me, evidence or not.

Strewth, did you ever find out what that caterpillar thingy was? Sorry to hear about what its done to your immune system.

My immunity got wrecked by way too many antibiotic treatments for lung and throat infections - aggravated by smoking and and glass fibre dust and fumes so no complaints there. Since I retired from cab driving with no morons coughing over my shoulder I have not had any more - three years now but the damage is done.

Seems we are both in the higher risk group who might be passing on earlier than we thought.

[grrclark]

3 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Strewth, did you ever find out what that caterpillar thingy was? Sorry to hear about what its done to your immune system.

My immunity got wrecked by way too many antibiotic treatments for lung and throat infections - aggravated by smoking and and glass fibre dust and fumes so no complaints there. Since I retired from cab driving with no morons coughing over my shoulder I have not had any more - three years now but the damage is done.

Seems we are both in the higher risk group who might be passing on earlier than we thought.

Nope, not a clue what it was or why it might have had the impact it did.  Just bad luck i guess.  I have read quite a bit about triggers for RA, but i think it is pretty much if you are genetically pre-disposed to it then anything that upsets the balance can cause it.  I think the same is true for really horrific diseases like MND too.

I have no plans to expire anytime soon and i hope that you don't either    It is mad what the human body can put up with, we can be remarkably resilient and survive horrific trauma, yet we are also so fragile at times too.

[Docleo]

8 hours ago, grrclark said:

Now i have to use a biological drug that heavily suppresses my immune system to keep it in check.  I really wish turmeric did work for me, evidence or not.

If it is Tocilizumab you might be "lucky". The italian agency for drug discovery has just announced that the drud is being tested for corona and the trial is promising...🤞

More in general, I agree that everyone is entitled to post whatever he wants on a forum but in a moment like this, we should think before reposting any news coming from facebook and the likes. Please, lets try to stick to verified and reputable sources. 

Science is not democratic. 

[ditchman]

i have been told that ibrufen supresses the imune system....whereas paracetamol dosnt..............is that correct ?

[bruno22rf]

Might be worth mentioning that ,although the death rate so far in Italy is worrying at 2,500, during the 2016/2017 winter period just under 25,000 died of normal Flu. Ibuprofen can dampen the immune system ,ditchman, but may have other negative side effects - I'm a Transplant patient and cannot take it whereas Paracetamol has saved me a whole heap of woes over the years - it was my main painkiller during recovery from surgery.

Edited March 18, 2020 by bruno22rf

[chrisjpainter]

36 minutes ago, ditchman said:

i have been told that ibrufen supresses the imune system....whereas paracetamol dosnt..............is that correct ?

This is slightly complicated! Essentially, no it's not been proved and the evidence is sketchy. However, there are things that should be considered with ibup. prolonged useage can exacerbate underlying health concerns, obviously not great anyway, but CV-19 affects the respiratory system primarily, and ibup can make conditions like asthma worse, so the combination of those two factors could be very serious. There are a few myths and legends floating around, but the vast majority of them are nonsense, whilst a few have just distorted truths grafted into them - as usual!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51929628

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by chrisjpainter

[SpringDon]

11 hours ago, grrclark said:

The thing that really baffles me about when people so willingly share information that even 5 seconds of rational thought would dismiss as nonsense, is why are they so keen to demonstrate so very publicly that they are either stupid or wilfully ignorant?

Well done for trying to shine the light of rationality but I fear you’re wasting your time. Because they always come back with “yeah, but what if? You don’t know for sure”.

I call this the “man in the pub syndrome”. Years ago one had to sit next to a drunken idiot, listening to rubbish. This stuff was not disseminated because it was either forgotten with a hangover or withered with the application of thought.

Today rubbish is propagated by sober people on the internet where rubbish carries the same weight as truth. It’s a depressing thought that there is now unprecedented access to information but ignorance is even more widespread. It is now informed ignorance rather than simply “I don’t know”.

[AVB]

24 minutes ago, SpringDon said:

Well done for trying to shine the light of rationality but I fear you’re wasting your time. Because they always come back with “yeah, but what if? You don’t know for sure”.

I call this the “man in the pub syndrome”. Years ago one had to sit next to a drunken idiot, listening to rubbish. This stuff was not disseminated because it was either forgotten with a hangover or withered with the application of thought.

Today rubbish is propagated by sober people on the internet where rubbish carries the same weight as truth. It’s a depressing thought that there is now unprecedented access to information but ignorance is even more widespread. It is now informed ignorance rather than simply “I don’t know”.

Absolutely. Great analogy with ‘idiot in pub’. 

On the subject of Tumeric. I take turmeric as one of my vitamin supplements. I have noticed that muscle soreness after a workout is greatly reduced. May be nothing in it but I’m sucker for supplements.