Lead ban & BASC

[Teal]

 

1 hour ago, Smokersmith said:

It's called a 'soft launch' ...

 

16 minutes ago, wymberley said:

They often follow a hard lunch.

 🤣🤣... and if its the launch of a lead balloon, then a crash landing too... I don't often tune in to Fieldsports TV -but they have an episode tonight I believe, I'm guessing they'll have reps speaking, or is it all a big secret.

[lancer425]

50 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

Does the plastic in ITM/HW13/HW15 count as single use?

Good point.

[Old farrier]

21 minutes ago, Teal said:

I hope your source is right OF, but I've got to be honest for 2020 that's fairly backwards if it is the case. If they wanted to communicate it could be done in a instant, with a few taps on a keyboard. So, I hope what is printed is not just be a rehash of what is already out there. 

I'm waiting to see what extra information is given. There were 9 organisations on the statement, they can't all be waiting on the Voice of Shooting magazine to be printed before the big reveal can they? I mean that might have worked for Paul Daniels... but when the average shooter gets treated like a mushroom it's not great!!

Just finished spending half a hour on the phone with someone at Basc 

very poor indeed if it was known about before going to print there could have been some consulting with the members 

this is akin to the postman telling you news that you get confirmation of by post a week later 

[lancer425]

I wonder how many dropped out of BASC yesterday only to join another shooting org that were part of the joint statement.

[lancer425]

4 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Just finished spending half a hour on the phone with someone at Basc 

very poor indeed if it was known about before going to print there could have been some consulting with the members 

this is akin to the postman telling you news that you get confirmation of by post a week later 

If BASC had asked members , they would have only said NO fight to keep lead. Nothing has changed at all in law not one thing.

 It is a request from ALL those  shooting organisations not just BASC. Just a request to  voluntary stop using lead and plastic/wads.   Nothing more.

[clangerman]

8 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

If BASC had asked members , they would have only said NO fight to keep lead. Nothing has changed at all in law not one thing.

 It is a request from ALL those  shooting organisations not just BASC. Just a request to  voluntary stop using lead and plastic/wads.   Nothing more.

ignoring the people who pay your wages IS the problem all of the organisations do the same they don’t consult their members they push ahead with their OWN agenda then refuse to explain their actions i seen at least two people ask on here yesterday for a basc response then when the screaming dies down they all crawl back out like they have done nothing wrong that is NOT how you represent your members thinking about this today farmers are nobodys fool if lead was any threat farmers would have banned its use years ago so it’s all a load of old cobblers 

[Old farrier]

17 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

If BASC had asked members , they would have only said NO fight to keep lead. Nothing has changed at all in law not one thing.

 It is a request from ALL those  shooting organisations not just BASC. Just a request to  voluntary stop using lead and plastic/wads.   Nothing more.

That’s fine and I understand all of this 

however

book a day on the glorious 12th turn up to shoot with your lead and fibre wad cartridge 1/2 way there 🙄

and the agent says non toxic and bio wads or your not shooting we are entering into the voluntary ban what do you do? 
As yet there’s nothing for your pair of 28 bores or your 20 bores or your short chambered 12 bore 

we have 5 1/2 months until the start of the next season and I for one would like to be in a position to be able to comply with the voluntary rules and would like a bit of time to practice with the new cartridge combination 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

They often follow a hard lunch.

😂 Brilliant! 😂

[Scully]

53 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Just finished spending half a hour on the phone with someone at Basc 

very poor indeed if it was known about before going to print there could have been some consulting with the members 

this is akin to the postman telling you news that you get confirmation of by post a week later 

The NGO have acted no better in this respect. I learned of the proposed ‘ban’ ‘phasing out’,  call it what you will, on this forum. 
I have had three emails from NGO yesterday, but all were just responses to emails I initiated. Not impressed, and I still dispute the science ( as it is reported ) is as scary as we are being led to believe. 
In their defence; whether the science is as scary as they claim or not, if people refuse to buy meat shot with lead shot, then what else could they do to try to regenerate sales? 

[oowee]

Its so much more than just the lead. Single use plastics from wads to cases. It cant be right to claim to love the countryside and at the same time despoil it with waste. 

A voluntary bam is a start of the process of securing better more effective and cheaper alternatves to that which we have enjoyed for the last few decades. 

👍

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

Its so much more than just the lead. Single use plastics from wads to cases. It cant be right to claim to love the countryside and at the same time despoil it with waste.

I admit to guilt on the lead front. 

However I have not used a plastic wad from choice for many years on clays or game.  I say 'from choice' because I suspect I may have used the occasional one with my very occasional non toxic cartridge I have used.  I ALWAYS collect cases and don't quite know if they actually get recycled or not (I don't reload).  For some years I used paper cases, but really gave up due to the large price premium.  I can't recall ever having trouble with them swelling, but perhaps I was lucky.

[Guest cookoff013]

Now its the turn of the cartridge manufacturers and "market" adjustment

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, lancer425 said:

If BASC had asked members , they would have only said NO fight to keep lead. Nothing has changed at all in law not one thing.

 It is a request from ALL those  shooting organisations not just BASC. Just a request to  voluntary stop using lead and plastic/wads.   Nothing more.

And the green light for an outright ban in 5 years.

21 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I admit to guilt on the lead front. 

However I have not used a plastic wad from choice for many years on clays or game.  I say 'from choice' because I suspect I may have used the occasional one with my very occasional non toxic cartridge I have used.  I ALWAYS collect cases and don't quite know if they actually get recycled or not (I don't reload).  For some years I used paper cases, but really gave up due to the large price premium.  I can't recall ever having trouble with them swelling, but perhaps I was lucky.

Likewise. I have only used plastic wads where there has been no alternative, i.e. steel wildfowling loads.

[markm]

1 hour ago, lancer425 said:

I wonder how many dropped out of BASC yesterday only to join another shooting org that were part of the joint statement.

Some organisations are not there to support / defend shooting. EG - NGO.  I know a number of keepers who never use a shotgun other than limited vermin control. 

Just thinking. Mis-sold pensions, mortgages, PPI, holidays, cars. All claim back £££££
 

Have we been mis-sold memberships? I feel I have.

 Is there a claim here? 

Edited February 26, 2020 by markm

[clangerman]

6 minutes ago, markm said:

Some organisations are not there to support / defend shooting. EG - NGO.  I know a number of keepers who never use a shotgun other than limited vermin control. 

Just thinking. Mis-sold pensions, mortgages, PPI, holidays, cars. All claim back £££££
 

Have we been mis-sold memberships? I feel I have.

 Is there a claim here? 

if anyone thinks we been supported or defended so far by shooting organisations i’m selling chocolate tea pots at a grand each cash only please 

[markm]

2 minutes ago, clangerman said:

if anyone thinks we been supported or defended so far by shooting organisations i’m selling chocolate tea pots at a grand each cash only please 

I’m sure we’d also have a claim on the mis-management front. Look at the fiasco a few years ago at the mill
 

 

[spurs 14]

Anyone who didn’t think that a lead ban was on its way at some point in the future is dreaming ! What all the groups did was get together and pre emp  this ! Nothing in law has changed at the moment , it’s voluntary and gives the shooting community time to adjust , to try different alternatives and to give all the cartridge makers time to find , develop , test and manufacture new carts

it’s no good jumping up and down blaming basc or who ever would you rather have a four year breathing space or a complete ban in a year or so , done overnight , and leaving us in a situation like the withdrawal of the general licenses ! 

No one likes change , I don’t , I’d rather have the huge choice of carts we have now but give the cart manufacturers time , we will have that choice back ! And this is why this voluntary solution has come in ! 

[clangerman]

yes consulted everyone except the the good folk paying their wages the members and nobody is in a better position to decide if a ban is needed than farmers i spoke to a feed maker today who owns five farms and has farmed his entire life his take on it was quote someone’s pulling a fast one if lead was a problem i would stop you using it quick time unquote so who’s word would you take a expert in producing feed and farming or the shooting organisations i know who i’m with 

[Smokersmith]

4 minutes ago, clangerman said:

nobody is in a better position to decide if a ban is needed than farmers

Unfortunately that is not where our current and future challenges lie.

[Scully]

12 minutes ago, clangerman said:

yes consulted everyone except the the good folk paying their wages the members and nobody is in a better position to decide if a ban is needed than farmers i spoke to a feed maker today who owns five farms and has farmed his entire life his take on it was quote someone’s pulling a fast one if lead was a problem i would stop you using it quick time unquote so who’s word would you take a expert in producing feed and farming or the shooting organisations i know who i’m with 

Believe you me, if lead prevented farmers from selling their produce they would be calling for an immediate ban!

[Conor O'Gorman]

I have sent direct messages to people that tagged/quoted me in this thread. If I missed anyone please message me. If you are a BASC member and want to put your concerns on record with BASC then I would suggest you email lead@basc.org.uk or phone 01244 573057.

[clangerman]

5 minutes ago, Scully said:

Believe you me, if lead prevented farmers from selling their produce they would be calling for an immediate ban!

thanks that’s what i was trying to get across think i’m wasting my time alerting people we are doing the antis work for them 

[oowee]

53 minutes ago, spurs 14 said:

Anyone who didn’t think that a lead ban was on its way at some point in the future is dreaming ! What all the groups did was get together and pre emp  this ! Nothing in law has changed at the moment , it’s voluntary and gives the shooting community time to adjust , to try different alternatives and to give all the cartridge makers time to find , develop , test and manufacture new carts

it’s no good jumping up and down blaming basc or who ever would you rather have a four year breathing space or a complete ban in a year or so , done overnight , and leaving us in a situation like the withdrawal of the general licenses ! 

No one likes change , I don’t , I’d rather have the huge choice of carts we have now but give the cart manufacturers time , we will have that choice back ! And this is why this voluntary solution has come in ! 

👍

[wymberley]

51 minutes ago, spurs 14 said:

Anyone who didn’t think that a lead ban was on its way at some point in the future is dreaming ! What all the groups did was get together and pre emp  this ! Nothing in law has changed at the moment , it’s voluntary and gives the shooting community time to adjust , to try different alternatives and to give all the cartridge makers time to find , develop , test and manufacture new carts

it’s no good jumping up and down blaming basc or who ever would you rather have a four year breathing space or a complete ban in a year or so , done overnight , and leaving us in a situation like the withdrawal of the general licenses ! 

No one likes change , I don’t , I’d rather have the huge choice of carts we have now but give the cart manufacturers time , we will have that choice back ! And this is why this voluntary solution has come in ! 

It's been mentioned more than once now. As the government are the only people who can initiate a ban, when taking into account manufacturing, supply chains, etc, etc how would this overnight ban be implemented?

[Piebob]

1 hour ago, spurs 14 said:

 What all the groups did was get together and pre emp  this !

I'm not sure it was quite like that.  I've heard that BASC informed some other organisations at the eleventh hour of the forthcoming release. The other orgs felt they had little option but to go along with it, showing solidarity.  I've no idea about the accuracy of that, but I've no reason to disbelieve it.