rbrowning2 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, David BASC said: Mick Are you genuinely unaware of what the larger supermarkets have been saying over the last several months 're no longer accepting game shot with lead? Are you genuinely unaware of what is happening in Europe that will impact on the UK? David, your last statement is still unknown quantity and was it not better to be part of the discussions rather than roll over and take it. why did you not implement this for the large commercial shoots selling game first then progress from their? Welcome back to the discussion. Edited March 9, 2020 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, David BASC said: Mick Are you genuinely unaware of what the larger supermarkets have been saying over the last several months 're no longer accepting game shot with lead? Are you genuinely unaware of what is happening in Europe that will impact on the UK? David, were BASC paid to promote the voluntary ban of lead shot? Was this all arranged before? If so, when? If so, why are BASC taking orders from organisations paying them, but not consulting or listening to the wishes of members? The ones who fund and basically are the organisation? These are some serious accusations going about. I am only noting what has been said, and would welcome you to clear it up please, especially if all untrue. If it is I will apologise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) David, so everyone else gets the sticky brown end of the stick to give commercial shooting a justification and outlet? I keep looking at it, that's the only way I see it. I cannot see any other angle. Then to dress it up with environmental concerns is both insulting and disingenuous in equal measure. It won't last anyhow, the first punter to break a tooth will kybosh the whole deal. I can see the red top headlines already. Tell me, what considerations have BASC given to everyone else that shoots to prevent the inevitable legislative creep? Because I would imagine its none. Or better still, the argument to be made to retain the use of lead in rifles, as now, in a bizarre about face, all lead, in any quantity, is unacceptable. Or what programs are in place to educate birds in the differences between lead, mistaken as grit or seed, collected from straw bale type clay shoots or those shooting grounds with ponds, lakes as opposed to lead shot collected from areas used for game shoots? As surely, that shot is just as deadly? (as per the quote from the GWCT in the supporting video). The better option, as already stated, would have been a move by commercial shoots or those passing on shot birds to game handling establishments, toward the use of steel, rather than forcing through change for walked up shoots and the shooter that eats, or shares for free, their shot birds. I would have broadly been supportive of that, as commercial reasons force the hand, but not one that will affect everyone else. Edited March 9, 2020 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 Not sure what the unknown quantity is you refer to, but we face a changing environment within which shooting operates, and we must adapt if we are going to thrive. No none of the organisations are being paid to encourage shooters to move away from lead and to move away from single use plastics. Yes there are plenty of false accusations floating about, with no actual evidence to back them up! That speaks volumes! I am sure the larger shoots will move to non lead shot and I am sure you are all aware of how many shooters have been using non lead shot successfully for years for years, and further developments in the coming years will see even more improvements in performance on the non lead options. Change is always tough, but if we want shooting to thrive we must adapt as I have said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 I would love to know how long it took to make this decision, hours, days or months because after a week or two on here we now seem to be tripping over common sense and practical solutions that will probably please most if not all shoots and shooter. Also David BASC did the government slip an envelope under a door somewhere say this is what is in the pipeline before the next election or is it all supermarket based. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 2 hours ago, rbrowning2 said: They are proving it in a niche way, relatively small quantise of expensive 12gauge cartridges only, if you think this is so easy and the cartridge manufactures are holding back why don’t you put your money or basc money into setting up your own cartridge loading business and let’s see where you are in five years time, boom or bust. The orgs suggesting a lead ban is not wrong the way they have gone about it is wrong, it should have been the large commercial shoots that sell the game first and then rolled out as the cartridge industry increases its capacity and investment to deliver the numbers and choice of cartridges required for a total move away from lead for live quarry shooting. Cartridge firms can do it, i said it more times than i care to remember on this thread. ITS WADS the big issue. Steel works no one can deny that, but if vwith these new wads its not patterning, its one saving grace its superb pattening is not there any more. Its about masking something tough enough and that does the job of the plasmids. I think its doable . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameking Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 18 minutes ago, 8 shot said: I would love to know how long it took to make this decision, hours, days or months because after a week or two on here we now seem to be tripping over common sense and practical solutions that will probably please most if not all shoots and shooter. Also David BASC did the government slip an envelope under a door somewhere say this is what is in the pipeline before the next election or is it all supermarket based. Is it coincidental that the former Head of Shooting for the CA (who has links to BASC) is now CEO of the BGA 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 17 minutes ago, 8 shot said: I would love to know how long it took to make this decision, hours, days or months because after a week or two on here we now seem to be tripping over common sense and practical solutions that will probably please most if not all shoots and shooter. Also David BASC did the government slip an envelope under a door somewhere say this is what is in the pipeline before the next election or is it all supermarket based. What you have here is 56 pages at the moment of KNEE JERK REACTION passion determination emotion fear misunderstanding & and sheer unadulterated bloody mindedness. And that’s from all sides. 2 minutes ago, Gameking said: Is it coincidental that the former Head of Shooting for the CA (who has links to BASC) is now CEO of the BGA 🙄 People change jobs ..Happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 No envelopes under doors , but as I said, if you look at what's been going on re lead in Europe over the last few years, it will come as no surprise! But add to that the pressure for food sellers to remove heavy metals etc from foods, again that's been on the agenda for ages...and lets not forget single use plastics and the bad PR that have had... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 2 hours ago, David BASC said: Mick Are you genuinely unaware of what the larger supermarkets have been saying over the last several months 're no longer accepting game shot with lead? Are you genuinely unaware of what is happening in Europe that will impact on the UK? David, Speaking to you as an official of the gang of nine and the only one brave enough to put his head above the parapet and not use his loaf instead and if we ignore for a minute all this highfalutin entreprenaurial talk of supermarkets; a question. On an area where there is no standing water and no 'fowl and where I only shoot pigeon and corvids - none of which go into the public food chain - could you possibly explain where is the science that the gang deemed it necessary for me - albeit it voluntarily at the moment - to refrain from using lead shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 24 minutes ago, 8 shot said: I would love to know how long it took to make this decision, hours, days or months because after a week or two on here we now seem to be tripping over common sense and practical solutions that will probably please most if not all shoots and shooter. Also David BASC did the government slip an envelope under a door somewhere say this is what is in the pipeline before the next election or is it all supermarket based. I don't think any of us lot will know the actual ins and outs of what went on. As was said further back in the thread, if the EU decide they aren't going to be buying game from the UK, BASC and the other orgs have created a rather large mountain from a particularly small mole hill. Yes 100% get rid of single use plastic's, as for lead id imagine a large proportion of the game sold is to those who couldn't care less if it had been shot with lead because in reality its not something to worry about 🥱. If a shoot wants to supple Waitrose for example and they insist on non toxic then by all means do so. We've all be stuck on one sinking ship and life raft places look pretty expensive to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, wymberley said: David, Speaking to you as an official of the gang of nine and the only one brave enough to put his head above the parapet and not use his loaf instead and if we ignore for a minute all this highfalutin entreprenaurial talk of supermarkets; a question. On an area where there is no standing water and no 'fowl and where I only shoot pigeon and corvids - none of which go into the public food chain - could you possibly explain where is the science that the gang deemed it necessary for me - albeit it voluntarily at the moment - to refrain from using lead shot? +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, David BASC said: No envelopes under doors , but as I said, if you look at what's been going on re lead in Europe over the last few years, it will come as no surprise! But add to that the pressure for food sellers to remove heavy metals etc from foods, again that's been on the agenda for ages...and lets not forget single use plastics and the bad PR that have had... do me a favour and leave to come on here without so much as a apology is not only offensive in the extreme it is arrogant your organisation is a disgrace to shooting and anyone who takes part it has stained and damaged the entire world of shooting these chaps don’t trust you a inch now as for the public thanks to basc shooters have no credibility whatsoever basc is a disgrace and should be banned from the forum apologies to you chaps but to crawl on here with no apology is disgusting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 From my farming experience, I believe Waitrose source there own meat lamb, beef etc. and get farmers the rear these to there own requirements. So as said before let the retailer set his requirements and those who can and will meet them, supply as required but also make them all traceable as again the same in farming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, 8 shot said: From my farming experience, I believe Waitrose source there own meat lamb, beef etc. and get farmers the rear these to there own requirements. So as said before let the retailer set his requirements and those who can and will meet them, supply as required but also make them all traceable as again the same in farming. That would have a saved a whole heap of fuss. But you couldn't possibly do something like that, it's far to simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gameking Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 36 minutes ago, lancer425 said: What you have here is 56 pages at the moment of KNEE JERK REACTION passion determination emotion fear misunderstanding & and sheer unadulterated bloody mindedness. And that’s from all sides. People change jobs ..Happens. Just like the ex Friends of the earth TJ going to NE ....................😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsDad Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, clangerman said: do me a favour and leave to come on here without so much as a apology is not only offensive in the extreme it is arrogant your organisation is a disgrace to shooting and anyone who takes part it has stained and damaged the entire world of shooting these chaps don’t trust you a inch now as for the public thanks to basc shooters have no credibility whatsoever basc is a disgrace and should be banned from the forum apologies to you chaps but to crawl on here with no apology is disgusting As David is the only one from the shooting organisations with the guts to stick his head over the top of the trench and try to answer the questions raised on this forum, your hysterical comments are ill judged and ill informed. Quite how you consider the entire shooting world is stained and damaged is totally beyond me. If you want out of BASC, fine; stop paying your subs and find another organisation to represent you, but do spare us your hysterics because you are actually helping no one. The vast majority in the shooting world knew plastics and lead shot were under the microscope; better off we look at doing something positive now rather than wait until goverment legislation is forced on us. Edited March 9, 2020 by JJsDad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Gameking said: Just like the ex Friends of the earth TJ going to NE ....................😁 Exactly. I really wish you had not mentioned him he does not walk he slithers and tastes the air with his tongue. yuk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 Well, if we weren't already divided, we appear to be now. A big slap on the back all round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 28 minutes ago, clangerman said: do me a favour and leave to come on here without so much as a apology is not only offensive in the extreme it is arrogant your organisation is a disgrace to shooting and anyone who takes part it has stained and damaged the entire world of shooting these chaps don’t trust you a inch now as for the public thanks to basc shooters have no credibility whatsoever basc is a disgrace and should be banned from the forum apologies to you chaps but to crawl on here with no apology is disgusting Apologise for what exactly. Get real will you get a grip man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 Just now, JJsDad said: As David is the only one from the shooting organisations to stick his head over the top of the trench and try to answer the questions raised, your hysterical comments are ill judged and ill informed. Quite how you consider the entire shooting world is stained and damaged is totally beyond me. If you want out of BASC fine, stop paying your subs and find another organisation to represent you, but do spare us your hysterics because you are actually helping no one. The vast majority in the shooting world knew plastics and lead shot were under the microscope; better off we look at doing something positive rather than wait until goverment legislation is forced on us. no hysteria here just the truth people were calling for him to reply and he IGNORED them it has been PROVED basc lied and if you think this has not damaged our name as shooters there is something wrong my friend 2 minutes ago, lancer425 said: Apologise for what exactly. Get real will you get a grip man. me get a grip you posted on here more than anyone mate when people call for you to appear and you ignore them a APOLOGY is called for as for the rest of the farce your in denial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, clangerman said: no hysteria here just the truth people were calling for him to reply and he IGNORED them it has been PROVED basc lied and if you think this has not damaged our name as shooters there is something wrong my friend me get a grip you posted on here more than anyone mate when people call for you to appear and you ignore them a APOLOGY is called for as for the rest of the farce your in denial Lokk i could seee this ****** was deep i just folded up my waders and went for it its what you have to do to get through deep stuff like this, if you stop your DOWN then you have to roll out. It is deep around here i needed chest waders. But like any mucky job just hold your nose and get it done, a mucky job but some one had to do it. At page one of this we were blowing guns up with steel. my oh my i genuinely think we are over that now, so we might just have moved on a incy weency bit. Dont you think. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) Clangerman, if you do not like what I post then simply don't bother reading it! No one at BASC lied, but I guess you will keep sticking to this false fact because it fits with your argument. Wymberley ete al, if you do not want to engage in the voluntary schemes endorsed by 9 organisations so be it, if you want to ignore the evidence about the impacts of lead, then so be it. Working together to find the best way forward will be the big win for shooting, failing to engage as failing to be open to evolving and changing will put shooting on the back foot - which one would you prefer? Edited March 9, 2020 by David BASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, David BASC said: Clangerman, if you do not like what I post then simply don't bother reading it! No one at BASC lied, but I guess you will keep sticking to this false fact because it fits with your argument. Wymberley ete al, if you do not want to engage in the voluntary schemes endorsed by 9 organisations so be it, if you want to ignore the evidence about the impacts of lead, then so be it. Working together to find the best way forward will be the big win for shooting, failing to engage as failing to be open to evolving and changing will put shooting on the back foot - which one would you prefer? Tell you what I’d like to see. BASC (+all others) & Cartridge boss’ (particularly lylevale and gamebore) get together and have an online debate so we can all decide who’s telling ‘porkies’ Can’t be that hard to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, David BASC said: Clangerman, if you do not like what I post then simply don't bother reading it! No one at BASC lied, but I guess you will keep sticking to this false act because it fits with your argument. Wymberley ete al, if you do not want to engage in the voluntary schemes endorsed by 9 organisations so be it, if you want to ignore the evidence about the impacts of lead, then so be it. Working together to find the best way forward will be the big win for shooting, failing to engage as failing to be open to evolving and changing will put shooting on the back foot - which one would you prefer? i had my say i will both read and comment on basc posts make no mistake there and you still owe this forum a apology for ignoring calls to explain your self Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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