Lead ban & BASC

[wymberley]

Just now, Smokersmith said:

Read you post twice .... can you check that's really what you meant?

Well spotted - many thanks - will sort it.

[GingerCat]

51 minutes ago, motty said:

BASC should be promoting game meat far more than they do. It should be part of most families' diets. 

100% agree. I've got a freezer full (actually full to be honest) of pigeon, pheasant, partridge and now muntjac (any good recipes for muntjac?). It's leaner, greener and somewhat cleaner than any farmed meat and a lot tastier too. It's also all from less than a few miles from my house. The muntjac and pigeon are arguably a by product of farming crops also. The pheasant and partridge benefit the locality via conservation and jobs. 

Why isint basc (and others) promoting this outside of their limited audiences? It wouldn't take a lot to get the word out. 

As it stands a game keeper friend struggles to get rid of birds. He gets 5p a partridge and the pheasants he gives to the dealer for free. No local butcher wants them. He has them made oven ready to give to the guns as he has found them in ditches after a shoot otherwise. He as admitted to me that he had to dispose of some birds he couldn't shift previously as no where would take them as his freezers and friends freezers were full. 

The business models of shoots needs to change to remain sustainable however the marketing of game meat needs direction and some input from these organisations to promote their benefit. If not then it will be a lot more than lead shot and plastic wads that becomes the issue. 

Edited March 18, 2020 by GingerCat

[lancer425]

What is a wetland, and how do we determine if Lead fall on any given land area will not eventually end up in an adjacent or even a considerable distance away water course or wetland. ?

The oft quoted lead shot in Scotland In Land away from wetlands draining etc. How much land is this a possibility on up there.?

It is about starting the change the move away, the science aspect has been debated for byears, Lead is lead its toxic , like it or not we have to stop putting it out there, like we do. If it takes a thousand years to get to a waterway its still not good that we keep on throwing it about like we do anymore. If the EHCA erc are the ultimate killer of LEAD is to be seen, but a move away has to be on the cards at some point if we like it or not. Is now the right time. I really have no idea, but looks as good a time as any and given the moves in europe possibly a good time to be gaining time to get it done right now. But just my opinion.

 

[clangerman]

Just now, motty said:

But you DID use it by choice!!

oh if it’s a free choice basc are not calling for a voluntary ban then so i can sling the steel in the skip and stick with lead nice one happy days NOT! 

[motty]

Just now, clangerman said:

oh if it’s a free choice basc are not calling for a voluntary ban then so i can sling the steel in the skip and stick with lead nice one happy days NOT! 

I'm afraid I don't understand that!

[David BASC]

Phase out over 5 years not a ban now! Why cant you understand this clangerman?

[andrewluke]

3 minutes ago, David BASC said:

Phase out over 5 years not a ban now! Why cant you understand this clangerman?

and you think this wont get lead banned

[lancer425]

10 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

100% agree. I've got a freezer full (actually full to be honest) of pigeon, pheasant, partridge and now muntjac (any good recipes for muntjac?). It's leaner, greener and somewhat cleaner than any farmed meat and a lot tastier too. It's also all from less than a few miles from my house. The muntjac and pigeon are arguably a by product of farming crops also. The pheasant and partridge benefit the locality via conservation and jobs. 

Why isint basc (and others) promoting this outside of their limited audiences? It wouldn't take a lot to get the word out. 

As it stands a game keeper friend struggles to get rid of birds. He gets 5p a partridge and the pheasants he gives to the dealer for free. No local butcher wants them. He has them made oven ready to give to the guns as he has found them in ditches after a shoot otherwise. He as admitted to me that he had to dispose of some birds he couldn't shift previously as no where would take them as his freezers and friends freezers were full. 

The business models of shoots needs to change to remain sustainable however the marketing of game meat needs direction and some input from these organisations to promote their benefit. If not then it will be a lot more than lead shot and plastic wads that becomes the issue. 

One of the main reasons i hunt is meat, its not the reason, but it is very important to me.  I will admit to Just breasting out a good few pigeons in my time, when i could have done a more through job, and ditto with geese etc. But i really do have to try and justify to myself why i do this. I do try to place and pelts and skins i get off fax and deer, and have a mate has made it a hobby of his tanning them. I have never done it but do feel it hight time i did try and eat crows too, the yanks do. I think if the general public were introduced to game meat they would take to it like wioldfire, health is big news these days and whatever a persons ethics are game is healthy.

[GingerCat]

Just now, lancer425 said:

One of the main reasons i hunt is meat, its not the reason, but it is very important to me.  I will admit to Just breasting out a good few pigeons in my time, when i could have done a more through job, and ditto with geese etc. But i really do have to try and justify to myself why i do this. I do try to place and pelts and skins i get off fax and deer, and have a mate has made it a hobby of his tanning them. I have never done it but do feel it hight time i did try and eat crows too, the yanks do. I think if the general public were introduced to game meat they would take to it like wioldfire, health is big news these days and whatever a persons ethics are game is healthy.

I've yet to met someone who has tried one of my homemade pigeon sausages, pigeon burgers or pigeon jerky that hasn't liked it. If i make some its difficult to not give it all away such is it's popularity.  It's not hard to make either.  Game pies and stews are fantastic. Game curries fantastically (pheasant curry is more popular than chicken in it house by some margin). Deer is incredibly easy to substitute for beef. To be fair if you mince pigeon and mix a little with beef it's fantastic in a chilli or spay bog and better for you. 

My neighbours didn't know it was pigeon when I served a Moroccan pigeon pie. They were sure it was beef. 

Partridge is a lovely meat. As is duck and goose. None are ready meals and none are promoted outside of this forum or other shooting forums. If it were I'm sure the popularity would increase. Butchers may want some and our hobbies would be viewed in a more favourable light by a more enlightened public. 

[old'un]

32 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

100% agree. I've got a freezer full (actually full to be honest) of pigeon, pheasant, partridge and now muntjac (any good recipes for muntjac?). It's leaner, greener and somewhat cleaner than any farmed meat and a lot tastier too. It's also all from less than a few miles from my house. The muntjac and pigeon are arguably a by product of farming crops also. The pheasant and partridge benefit the locality via conservation and jobs. 

Why isint basc (and others) promoting this outside of their limited audiences? It wouldn't take a lot to get the word out. 

As it stands a game keeper friend struggles to get rid of birds. He gets 5p a partridge and the pheasants he gives to the dealer for free. No local butcher wants them. He has them made oven ready to give to the guns as he has found them in ditches after a shoot otherwise. He as admitted to me that he had to dispose of some birds he couldn't shift previously as no where would take them as his freezers and friends freezers were full. 

The business models of shoots needs to change to remain sustainable however the marketing of game meat needs direction and some input from these organisations to promote their benefit. If not then it will be a lot more than lead shot and plastic wads that becomes the issue. 

This whole lead, steel debate does seem to revolve mainly around game shooting and the saleability of lead shot game, but there is also a big problem with moving large amounts of game into the food chain, well that’s how I see it.

So this might not go down well with the big shoots who regularly shoot bags of 300, 400 or more.

Ok, lets say next season all game is shot with steel, now before the game season begins these large shoots and game dealers could agree on the number of birds they will take for the season, once this limit is reached and the dealer is unwilling to take more birds, the shoot either stops shooting or finds another outlet for the birds.

It may mean large shoots have to reduce the number of birds shot per shoot or the number of days per season, this would at least stop the glut and may help stabilise the price for shot birds throughout the season, supply and demand.

 

I am sure someone will be along to tell me this is not practical, if so why and do you have any better ideas?

[clangerman]

34 minutes ago, David BASC said:

Phase out over 5 years not a ban now! Why cant you understand this clangerman?

five years or not the ban is down to BASC forcing us to jump before being pushed the whole thing is the fault of BASC 

[lancer425]

18 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

I've yet to met someone who has tried one of my homemade pigeon sausages, pigeon burgers or pigeon jerky that hasn't liked it. If i make some its difficult to not give it all away such is it's popularity.  It's not hard to make either.  Game pies and stews are fantastic. Game curries fantastically (pheasant curry is more popular than chicken in it house by some margin). Deer is incredibly easy to substitute for beef. To be fair if you mince pigeon and mix a little with beef it's fantastic in a chilli or spay bog and better for you. 

My neighbours didn't know it was pigeon when I served a Moroccan pigeon pie. They were sure it was beef. 

Partridge is a lovely meat. As is duck and goose. None are ready meals and none are promoted outside of this forum or other shooting forums. If it were I'm sure the popularity would increase. Butchers may want some and our hobbies would be viewed in a more favourable light by a more enlightened public. 

I do like partridge i must admit.

[andrewluke]

5 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

I do like partridge i must admit.

*** something we agree on

Edited March 18, 2020 by andrewluke

[Old farrier]

10 minutes ago, old'un said:

This whole lead, steel debate does seem to revolve mainly around game shooting and the saleability of lead shot game, but there is also a big problem with moving large amounts of game into the food chain, well that’s how I see it.

 

 

So this might not go down well with the big shoots who regularly shoot bags of 300, 400 or more.

Ok, lets say next season all game is shot with steel, now before the game season begins these large shoots and game dealers could agree on the number of birds they will take for the season, once this limit is reached and the dealer is unwilling to take more birds, the shoot either stops shooting or finds another outlet for the birds.

It may mean large shoots have to reduce the number of birds shot per shoot or the number of days per season, this would at least stop the glut and may help stabilise the price for shot birds throughout the season, supply and demand.

 

 

I am sure someone will be along to tell me this is not practical, if so why and do you have any better ideas?

It’s a good idea 👍

however for it to work from the start of the season we need a good affordable fibre steel cartridge combination that will kill game birds in the 2.3/4 2.1/2 12 bore size and something for the 20 bore Available for the start of the this season 

many game shooters don’t have a heavy wild Fowling gun nor wish to use one 

I also feel that the guns (I’m one of them) should take more responsibility for the game they shoot it saddens me on a day when a gun doesn’t take away a proportion of the bag 

I personally never have a problem with taking and using left over game and there’s always a que at my door when I’m giving it out 

[lancer425]

4 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

*** something we agree on

Face it with the amount you throw around something gota stick.

[andrewluke]

6 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Face it with the amount you throw around something gota stick.

but at least it's not bull**** on my part

[panoma1]

To paraphrase President John Fitzgerald Kennedy..........ask not what shooting can do for me, but what I can do for shooting! 
 

In other words, it serves no shooting persons interests to sow further discontent by continually criticising our representative bodies, irrespective of your own feelings, if shooting is to survive, shooting people should get behind shootings representative bodies now!

United as a group, we stand a good chance.................as a bunch of individuals we’re ******!

[lancer425]

2 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

To paraphrase President John Fitzgerald Kennedy..........ask not what shooting can do for me, but what I can do for shooting! 
 

In other words, it serves no shooting persons interests to sow further discontent by continually criticising our representative bodies, irrespective of your own feelings, if shooting is to survive, shooting people should get behind shootings representative bodies now!

United as a group, we stand a good chance.................as a bunch of individuals we’re ******!

Amen to that.

[lancer425]

17 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

It’s a good idea 👍

however for it to work from the start of the season we need a good affordable fibre steel cartridge combination that will kill game birds in the 2.3/4 2.1/2 12 bore size and something for the 20 bore Available for the start of the this season 

many game shooters don’t have a heavy wild Fowling gun nor wish to use one 

I also feel that the guns (I’m one of them) should take more responsibility for the game they shoot it saddens me on a day when a gun doesn’t take away a proportion of the bag 

I personally never have a problem with taking and using left over game and there’s always a que at my door when I’m giving it out 

Next week if Shooting star get their order they were expecting some Joker bio steel, and had other options too. mate rang then a week or so ago.

Not sure if joker are doing 20s he did not ask, but the chap did mention, they would be looking at 16s or 10s next.

[rbrowning2]

2 hours ago, lancer425 said:

 

I understand where your coming from, but that’s my attitude to it at this stage.

 If you have livestock around etc ok use lead most will be doing until fibre steel shows up. Shooting star are suposed to be getting some Jokers in this next week he told my mate other day. This virus might steady things i supose but hey ho.

 Fact is right now in areas they can practically use plaswdsds, suitable capable loads for pigeon and game do exist.

But if needing fibre just keep going with lead.

 

Lancer25, it is a big ask to expect pigeon shooters to spend around an additional £200.00 buying cartridges. Can you really see this happing voluntarily? £400 plus to shoot pigeons and limited to 12ga only.

lead will continue to be the go to shot type until, if and when a total lead ban is legally introduced and then unlike BASC thinks I bet it will be introduced over say a five year period just like REACH was for propellants.

27 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

United as a group, we stand a good chance.................as a bunch of individuals we’re ******!

Sadly it will never happen, never happened for the pistol ban, never happened for the semi auto ban, and it will never happen now.

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by rbrowning2

[clangerman]

24 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

To paraphrase President John Fitzgerald Kennedy..........ask not what shooting can do for me, but what I can do for shooting! 
 

In other words, it serves no shooting persons interests to sow further discontent by continually criticising our representative bodies, irrespective of your own feelings, if shooting is to survive, shooting people should get behind shootings representative bodies now!

United as a group, we stand a good chance.................as a bunch of individuals we’re ******!

basc affects my sport and i’m supposed to suck it up? no chance! 

[Old farrier]

25 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Next week if Shooting star get their order they were expecting some Joker bio steel, and had other options too. mate rang then a week or so ago.

Not sure if joker are doing 20s he did not ask, but the chap did mention, they would be looking at 16s or 10s next.

Would you know what shops nationwide would be stocking them? 

[rbrowning2]

Just now, Old farrier said:

Would you know what shops nationwide would be stocking them? 

I would expect any shop that stocks RC cartridges, but the same supplier will soon also have the Bioammo cartridges as they had on display as the recent shooting show.

expect to pay around £400 to £450 per 1000

 

[southeastpete]

The game shoots should be he ones pushing game meat to the public. They are the ones making huge sums of money from killing the bloody things. They should never be dumping them.

They should turn them into products which will a) enhance their profit and b) enhance the saleability.

instead of trying to sell birds in the feather they should turn them into curries and pies and bags of diced etc etc 

they should also put some of their huge profits into advertising game meat and making it more common place.

but it seems they aren’t really bothered as they still get paid either way 🤷‍♂️

12 minutes ago, clangerman said:

basc affects my sport and i’m supposed to suck it up? no chance! 

So when would you be happy to give up lead?

and why are you being so weird about this. You’re like a child. No one has said you have to stop using lead. And in 5 years time it might not even happen. And if it does and there is a suitable alternative, then it doesn’t matter because there will be a suitable alternative!

there is a negligible chance that in 5 years a legal ban will be slapped in place immediately and still no alternative, in which case yes that will be bad. But it’s so unlikely, and that’s what you’re crying about.

how old are you out of curiosity?

[8 shot]

5 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

I would expect any shop that stocks RC cartridges, but the same supplier will soon also have the Bioammo cartridges as they had on display as the recent shooting show.

expect to pay around £400 to £450 per 1000

 

That’s a very decent introductory price, but am I right in thinking that the bio wad takes 18 months to degrade ? Wouldn’t be accessible on some of my shoots with livestock. Nice try, but back to the drawing board fellas