Lead ban & BASC

[panoma1]

5 minutes ago, Salopian said:

I am led to believe that Hevi-shot is no longer available here in the UK because it became too expensive .

Do any of you know if it is available and how expensive it may be , asking because I believe it is the nearest equivalent to lead shot .

Is that both the original Micky mouse and the later sintered hevishot?.....I don’t think either is available for homeloading, but they may be selling it in made up factory shells?

[rbrowning2]

Their is also nice shot, but again very expensive

http://www.niceshotinc.com

https://www.claygame.co.uk/nice-shot-pd10

think it has the advantage that it can also be used with traditional fibre wads.

 

 

[Salopian]

Thank You maybe I will have to stand corrected .

What is the nearest equivalent to Lead shot please ? Heavishot , Niceshot or what have you and the cost please ?

Then maybe if there is no equivalent or it is too expensive maybe we could remind BASC of their previous Press releases from their very expensive , under utilised Media Centre , paid for with Members subscriptions , gifts and fund raising about embracing change when an efficient , affordable alternative to Lead shot becomes available.

[Guest cookoff013]

Niceshot went kaput.

[panoma1]

32 minutes ago, Salopian said:

Thank You maybe I will have to stand corrected .

What is the nearest equivalent to Lead shot please ? Heavishot , Niceshot or what have you and the cost please ?

Then maybe if there is no equivalent or it is too expensive maybe we could remind BASC of their previous Press releases from their very expensive , under utilised Media Centre , paid for with Members subscriptions , gifts and fund raising about embracing change when an efficient , affordable alternative to Lead shot becomes available.

Probably bismuth? But it’s expensive! at about £55 per kilo! At Claygame!.........Ouch!

[Salopian]

Panoma ,

 That is only £1571-50p + powder+wads +primers + time per thousand homeloaded 1ounce cartridges .

Why would anyone complain about banning Lead shot ?

[stagboy]

Can't find this posted before (apologies if it has) but it's a very good (if rather lengthy) listen:

https://www.thepacebrothers.com/post/140-the-great-lead-debate-lead-ammunition-toxicity-birds-of-prey-shooting-community

 

[Salopian]

Stagboy ,

 Thank you for that , I listened to it all and although everyone gave their honest opinion it was interesting to note that the BASC good Doctor would like us to roll over and not use lead in any shape or form really only Diggory talked any sense at all regarding embracing the future . 

It seems to me that many of these so called scientists and environmentalists would like us to behave totally like sheep , not protest and once we have rolled over onto our backs we are totally incapacitated .

I find it interesting that not one person appears to have read about the toxicity of alternatives to lead shot and commented  and no meaningful data has been published about mortality in humans from the consumption of lead pellet contaminated game?

[enfieldspares]

On 26/04/2020 at 17:42, rbrowning2 said:

If only life was that simple, Eley don’t make the plastic Eco-wads they are made in Spain by a Spanish company and they are not made from any biomass used to make compostable plastic bags.
The Spanish manufacture, probably given we are no longer part of the EU, may not give a monkey about what the UK may or may not be doing, especially if they can sell all they make to cartridge manufactures in the EU.

  

 

Eley-Hawk (which is the "Eley" that makes shotgun cartridges) is, like BSA, Spanish owned. Yet the myth continues of it being a traditional British cartridge manufacturer.

Edited May 6, 2020 by enfieldspares

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, i dare say the price of cartridges will go up and blame covid 19

[REDINGTON]

In the likely event of many being forced to give up shotgun shooting due to the inevitable rising costs of alternatives to lead and plastic, and coupled with the resultant losses in cartridge makers profits, whats left,? and perhaps more worrying, whats next?

[Smokersmith]

2 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, i dare say the price of cartridges will go up and blame covid 19

Chances are with 3 months 'down' they will have lost 1/4 of their revenue, and will not have been able to reduce their costs proportionately.

If they have to put their prices up to stay in business … so be it !

[Salopian]

So Smoker , 

The cartridge manufacturers as well as coping with Lead ban will have to cope with Kanban or Just in Time ?

[Smokersmith]

Good manufacturing practice no doubt … but not a replacer of revenue.

[Westley]

I keep reading about how harmful lead is to humans and I wonder how I and many others of the same trade,  have ever made it into mid to late seventies and older  ? The reason why  ?  I am a time served gasfitter and plumber, which I started in 1960. Although copper was being used for all new installations, there was still a lot of lead piping both existing and being installed. ALL domestic gas meters were installed with lead pipe, ALL but the very large water mains (which were iron) were lead. So, I handled and installed lead pipes on a daily basis. The only safety equipment we had was a pair of overalls and steel toe cap shoes and NOTHING else. When bending or working with lead pipe in any way, my hands would be black from the deposits off the pipes.  I worked for some 12 months on new build high rise flats, installing new gas meters, each installed using lead piping. Because of a lack of electricity in the blocks, everything had to be carried from the ground floor to whatever floor we were working on. At lunch time 1 apprentice would be sent down to a nearby chip shop with a 'shipping order'. This food would then be eaten where we were working in the block, there was no hand wash facilities as there was no water in the block. There would be as many as 20 fitters and 10 apprentices eating in this way. I then took up a new career and eventually became authorized  to carry a firearm. The ammunition for these weapons was er..... lead  !  .38 calibre ammo with a lead head. This ammo would be handled at least twice every week either training or  occasionally for real. Again on training days there was not always the facility for hand washing. I have been a fisherman for nearly 70 years again using lead on both sea and freshwater. The lead shot was put on and removed by using my teeth (most of which I still have). One of my shooting pals is a retired GP and Police Surgeon and we both agree that all of those that we have seen that died from ingesting lead,  had the muzzle of the gun either in, or in very close proximity to their mouth. In fact we both know of several people who have been carrying lead shot in their bodies for some considerable years and are still going strong. So I am sorry if I appear to be sceptical about all the damage that lead is doing to both birds and humans, BUT until someone can show me some positive  proof and NOT just written works, I shall remain so.  Oh, and to those that have paid to have new plastic water service pipes installed and believe that they are living lead free, well, ALL of those 'plastic' pipes that I have encountered, have been joined to the water main by er.................LEAD   ! 

[Salopian]

Westley ,

HOW DARE YOU ! As a BASC member and shotgun coach HOW DARE YOU  go against everything that BASC is pushing for ?

Do you not realise that we BASC members must continue the push for the abolition of lead ammunition as soon as possible even though it may fly in face of what  BASC has always said "No Evidence =No Change".

The whole mess is a fiasco not helped by BASC continually banging the drum. 

[Westley]

Well said Sir  !   W.

[wymberley]

19 hours ago, Salopian said:

So Smoker , 

The cartridge manufacturers as well as coping with Lead ban will have to cope with Kanban or Just in Time ?

Had to google Kanban - resembled a war-cry for WJ. And I've frequently found that JIT more often than not turns into JTL. However, as I'm the guy that usually moved in when the clever momey was moving out, I'm going to gloat. I've always wanted an OU that didn't feel like a canon - finally found one. Fancied changing my 2&1/2" chambered SbS for a 2&3/4" version in order to widen the cartridge choice - found a cracker. Tripped over a 56e in 20 flavour at UKGR and couldn't put it down. Having found out which cartridges all three preferred, I stocked up. I never have to buy another cartridge. 😀

[Salopian]

Wymberley , good for you enjoy when you can .

Reading my BASC magazine yesterday , letters page a member asks how to dispose of unused lead cartridges? He has a large stock which he can no longer use and the same can be said for cartridges he uses for shooting clays. 

Question :- How much more disinformation are BASC members and members of the other 8 Judas organisations going to be fed ?

You can shoot lead to your hearts content , the recommendation is for a VOLUNTARY restraint from using lead shot  for  Game and clayshooting has not even been mentioned .

[Stonepark]

On 03/05/2020 at 15:30, stagboy said:

 

 

"The profit for the year after taxation amounted to £1,865,755 (2017 - £1,866,414). The company's net current assets position is £9,954,759 and the net balance sheet total remains strong at £12,624,076."

 

The British profit is only a proportion of the Maxam profit, as profits are drawn back to Spain through internal charges for finance and components if all the profit was reported through the UK, it would be many times the above.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Stonepark

[rbrowning2]

20 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

The British profit is only a proportion of the Maxam profit, as profits are drawn back to Spain through internal charges for finance and components if all the profit was reported through the UK, it would be many times the above.

Stonepark, you missed the Part of the post which said the report of accounts was for Gamebore,  Gamebore is owned by the American kent cartridge company as far as I know, not the Spanish Maxam group.

Here are two parts of the strategic statement accompanying Gamebore's last report and accounts, from Companies House  (emphasis in bold by me): 

"The profit for the year after taxation amounted to £1,865,755 (2017 - £1,866,414). The company's net current assets position is £9,954,759 and the net balance sheet total remains strong at £12,624,076."

[Stonepark]

2 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

Stonepark, you missed the Part of the post which said the report of accounts was for Gamebore,  Gamebore is owned by the American kent cartridge company as far as I know, not the Spanish Maxam group.

Here are two parts of the strategic statement accompanying Gamebore's last report and accounts, from Companies House  (emphasis in bold by me): 

"The profit for the year after taxation amounted to £1,865,755 (2017 - £1,866,414). The company's net current assets position is £9,954,759 and the net balance sheet total remains strong at £12,624,076."

Apologies but the same applys, both companies syphon profits back to their parent companies.

[London Best]

In the June issue of ‘The Field’ there is a letter from a Danish shooter responding to last month’s article on steel shot cartridges. 
He says that Denmark has had a lead ban since 1996. Since then the Danes have been shooting game through vintage guns ( inc. Damascus) with 2 1/2 inch steel loads of 30 grams. All these cartridges have bio-degradable wads, not plastic. He is surprised that these cartridges are not available in the U.K. as they are widely available in Denmark, and are made by GAMEBORE and ELEY specially for vintage guns.

Go figure!

[Salopian]

Gamebore interview with Paul James CEO he says 2 1/2" Gamebore Steel have plastic wads at the moment .

 

[London Best]

11 minutes ago, Salopian said:

Gamebore interview with Paul James CEO he says 2 1/2" Gamebore Steel have plastic wads at the moment .

 

I did not think any 2 1/2 in steel were available in U.K.  Thought they were all 2 3/4 (70mm),