BASC.

[JJsDad]

6 minutes ago, clangerman said:

basc MANAGEMENT have done no wrong

A few facts would probably enable us to answer your question. BASC have grasped the nettle over lead shot and single use plasic and are urging the UK cartridge industry to start a serious look at alternatives, I for one intend to still be shooting in 5 years time. Do you want to wait until the whole thing is forced on us by central government ?

[greylag]

If members are not happy with BASC management they have the chance to vote for new members of council in the forthcoming elections.Turn up at the AGM and have your say.The take up for votes is abysmal with only a very small percentage of the membership voting.I have been to AGMs and there are hardly any members there.Its all very well saying  the management needs changing ,it is your organisation do something to make it even stronger.

[clangerman]

7 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

A few facts would probably enable us to answer your question. BASC have grasped the nettle over lead shot and single use plasic and are urging the UK cartridge industry to start a serious look at alternatives, I for one intend to still be shooting in 5 years time. Do you want to wait until the whole thing is forced on us by central government ?

i’m sure everyone had enough of my view on this so i’m going to thank everyone for listening and your patience and pack my kit for tomorrow all i can do is give you a view the rest is up to you on this one thank you 

[lancer425]

1 hour ago, clangerman said:

i’m positive nobody wishs to play when shooting is at stake certainly not me there is more than enough complaints on here to prove basc management need to go NOT basc  and if you are happy thats not the case unfortunately time will prove me right in the same way as we will still be knee deep in unwanted steel shot game in due coarse 

Take that as a no gripe really then, just like to vent about BASC because others do. I am not surprised at this at all. See it all the time on such threads and posts here and elsewhere. You can take some solace, You are certainly not alone.

[Old farrier]

To be honest this whole thread was started with 

hold on wait a bit I’ve got news that I heard from a friend of a friend but I’m not going into details and I can’t say anything but something is happening 

that was 2 days ago 

perhaps the op can enlighten us ? 
 

or is his post similar to the leaked information that caused me and others to doubt the credibility of the organisations creating mayhem 

insted of having the facts honestly laid out before the members who then could decide whether to put it on social media or tidy it up a bit more first  

[Scully]

59 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

To be honest this whole thread was started with 

hold on wait a bit I’ve got news that I heard from a friend of a friend but I’m not going into details and I can’t say anything but something is happening 

that was 2 days ago 

perhaps the op can enlighten us ? 
 

or is his post similar to the leaked information that caused me and others to doubt the credibility of the organisations creating mayhem 

insted of having the facts honestly laid out before the members who then could decide whether to put it on social media or tidy it up a bit more first  

In his defence he is a BASC member......what did you expect? 😃

[theshootist]

On 02/03/2020 at 14:32, lancer425 said:

Further to the statement issued by the shooting organisations last Friday and, in light of speculation on social media, BASC would like to clarify its position:

BASC understands the manufacturers’ concerns for their commercial interests as expressed in their statement on Friday 28^th February.

The cartridge manufacturers were consulted before the publication by the shooting organisations of their initial joint statement on the proposed five-year transition to sustainable, non-lead ammunition.

Representatives of shooting organisations were in contact with cartridge manufacturers at meetings where that proposed joint statement by the shooting organisations was discussed. A copy of that statement was given to cartridge companies in advance and they had the opportunity to comment.

BASC is seeking government financial support for the cartridge manufacturers to underpin the future development of sustainable alternatives to lead shot and had held meetings with ministers and Downing Street advisors to secure this support.

A senior representative of one of the cartridge manufacturers gave a presentation on the sustainable alternatives to lead shot in January to members of the All Party Parliamentary Group for Shooting and Conservation.

The joint statement issued by the organisations last week was accompanied by material provided by the Gun Trade Association, of which the cartridge manufacturers are members.

BASC has always worked closely with cartridge manufacturers in delivering policy on ammunition and we will continue to do so. The shooting organisations are seeking an urgent meeting with the CEOs of the companies to agree the way forward.

BASC urges all members of the shooting community to stand together as we work through the detail of a transition that will ensure the long-term future of shooting.

I think this was the new info no? 

[Old farrier]

24 minutes ago, theshootist said:

I think this was the new info no? 

Ah the seeking financial support from the government ( the money and backhanders ) for the cartridge manufacturers 

[theshootist]

If they manage to get financial support from a UK government to develop new types of civilian shotgun cartridge then they will earn my eternal admiration!

[mick miller]

8 hours ago, theshootist said:

If they manage to get financial support from a UK government to develop new types of civilian shotgun cartridge then they will earn my eternal admiration!

Precisely, the first thing I'm going to do is shoot those pigs that keep passing over the house, very annoying when they start so early in the morning.

[Old farrier]

1 minute ago, mick miller said:

Precisely, the first thing I'm going to do is shoot those pigs that keep passing over the house, very annoying when they start so early in the morning.

And I’ll train my dog to retrieve them 👍😊😊

[mick miller]

Job jobbed!

[Scully]

10 hours ago, theshootist said:

If they manage to get financial support from a UK government to develop new types of civilian shotgun cartridge then they will earn my eternal admiration!

This is what makes me think the shooting orgs were told ‘lead is dead, get used to it ‘ by government ministers. I realise of course, that the consumer is king, especially in today’s climate of being ‘green’, and as such can’t think where else this has come from. 

Isnt Simon Hart ( ex CA head honcho ) now a member of the cabinet? I assume BASC have the ear of several high profile ministers, who will inform them as to what is pending, what is doable and what isn’t. 
If course I may be totally wrong, but am highly suspicious because of the fact we have been Iied to by our shooting orgs. Why would they tell us they had consulted with cartridge manufacturers when it is apparently ( seemingly ) untrue? They not only didn't consult the cartridge manufacturers, ( but told their members they did ) they couldn’t even be bothered to inform the very people who pay their wages...the members! 
The entire episode is highly suspect, unprofessional to the point of appearing amateurish, and weakens their argument. 
If nothing is forthcoming I’m going either Gunplan or CC at next renewal, not because of the lead shot issue ( I seriously doubt it will effect me ) but because of being treated like a mushroom. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Scully

[lancer425]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

This is what makes me think the shooting orgs were told ‘lead is dead, get used to it ‘ by government ministers. I realise of course, that the consumer is king, especially in today’s climate of being ‘green’, and as such can’t think where else this has come from. 

Isnt Simon Hart ( ex CA head honcho ) now a member of the cabinet? I assume BASC have the ear of several high profile ministers, who will inform them as to what is pending, what is doable and what isn’t. 
If course I may be totally wrong, but am highly suspicious because of the fact we have been Iied to by our shooting orgs. Why would they tell us they had consulted with cartridge manufacturers when it is apparently ( seemingly ) untrue? They not only didn't consult the cartridge manufacturers, ( but told their members they did ) they couldn’t even be bothered to inform the very people who pay their wages...the members! 
The entire episode is highly suspect, unprofessional to the point of appearing amateurish, and weakens their argument. 
If nothing is forthcoming I’m going either Gunplan or CC at next renewal, not because of the lead shot issue ( I seriously doubt it will effect me ) but because of being treated like a mushroom. 

This is my view too, Boris johnson has the green bit between his teeth and i think The organisations could well have had the heads up on what was needed to meet the Governments expectations. I also think there might have been some outside threat of some kind , who knows but perhaps word of a Pending legal challenge by WJ . The issue is here we may never get to know the whole story exactly.  Any unproven scenarios Pro or against Lead, are largely academic, i think Lead has gone beyond defending when basc Did there utmost for lead over the last couple of years. Its reached the point of No return now, which brings us back to the Voluntary ban statement by the orgs, This option is at least a slow run up to a EXPECTED BAN, This is a master stroke in fighting an effective rear guard action. Giving us The government and the cartridges Companies AND COMPONENT INDUSTRIES of the WORLD Time to Bring out alternatives necessary to fulfil the requirements of any expectation in Non Lead Legislation.

  This is giving all of us the time of a smooth transition, where any Challenge to us by any other third parties on this matter is unlikely to get any consideration from the government as we are in effect in the process of change right now after the 9 organisation Announcement.

  This also gives us five years to get ready for negotiations at the end of the transition period, but it also gives us all that time to sound out the government on ideas too.  Only slight negative aspect is the government have five years too. Overall i think we are in a strong position way stronger than we would have been without it in any pending changes.  I think we still do not have all the facts but this may not make any difference.

[8 shot]

21 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

This is my view too, Boris johnson has the green bit between his teeth and i think The organisations could well have had the heads up on what was needed to meet the Governments expectations. I also think there might have been some outside threat of some kind , who knows but perhaps word of a Pending legal challenge by WJ . The issue is here we may never get to know the whole story exactly.  Any unproven scenarios Pro or against Lead, are largely academic, i think Lead has gone beyond defending when basc Did there utmost for lead over the last couple of years. Its reached the point of No return now, which brings us back to the Voluntary ban statement by the orgs, This option is at least a slow run up to a EXPECTED BAN, This is a master stroke in fighting an effective rear guard action. Giving us The government and the cartridges Companies AND COMPONENT INDUSTRIES of the WORLD Time to Bring out alternatives necessary to fulfil the requirements of any expectation in Non Lead Legislation.

  This is giving all of us the time of a smooth transition, where any Challenge to us by any other third parties on this matter is unlikely to get any consideration from the government as we are in effect in the process of change right now after the 9 organisation Announcement.

  This also gives us five years to get ready for negotiations at the end of the transition period, but it also gives us all that time to sound out the government on ideas too.  Only slight negative aspect is the government have five years too. Overall i think we are in a strong position way stronger than we would have been without it in any pending changes.  I think we still do not have all the facts but this may not make any difference.

Well, if that is the case, what a shambolic way of going about it, know wonder WJ run rings around them on the GL fiasco. These people are supposed to be the representatives we “pay” to look after our way of life. When one small crowd funded group of activists can back several multi million pound organisations in to a corner and they nearly wave the white flag, perhaps its time to spend our money else where. I’ve known 2 regional reps and both have left within a few years, both because of the way money they raised through The Young shots was spend. The BASC are not alone in this, but they are I guess the biggest and who I spend my money with so an alternative will have to be sort as I don’t see them as value for money. I wonder how many game shooting syndicates will continue with them ? As for negotiations, well we know how they’ll go, I hope to god they’re not going it lone and some of these” executives” are long gone before the nitty gritty starts.They think they are the oracle on shooting and conservation, they’re not, there are far better small organisations out there, some prepared to fight for perhaps not the ideal world but the best of what we have. 

[lancer425]

7 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

Well, if that is the case, what a shambolic way of going about it, know wonder WJ run rings around them on the GL fiasco. These people are supposed to be the representatives we “pay” to look after our way of life. When one small crowd funded group of activists can back several multi million pound organisations in to a corner and they nearly wave the white flag, perhaps its time to spend our money else where. I’ve known 2 regional reps and both have left within a few years, both because of the way money they raised through The Young shots was spend. The BASC are not alone in this, but they are I guess the biggest and who I spend my money with so an alternative will have to be sort as I don’t see them as value for money. I wonder how many game shooting syndicates will continue with them ? As for negotiations, well we know how they’ll go, I hope to god they’re not going it lone and some of these” executives” are long gone before the nitty gritty starts.They think they are the oracle on shooting and conservation, they’re not, there are far better small organisations out there, some prepared to fight for perhaps not the ideal world but the best of what we have. 

SHAMBOLIC,  WJ run rings around  & GL fiasco. its like being swished in the face with a BASC sucks  feather duster.  BASC "NOBODY" saw that coming with the GLs. Last year. WJ Juniper in place it was a match made in heaven for them, couple that with marian Sprains little girl lost performance at the Enquirey and we were lucky to get where we did then. Sprain missed her vocation she would have won an oscar for that ****** in Hollywood if it was not so sickeningly transparent to all present. WJ GOT LUCKY that’s all. 

They bring to bear a knowledgable experienced staff, who know the day to day requirements of keeping many shoots and clubs accross the country informed and reminded in the running of their organisations. Represent us in a myriad of groups and boards. Provide advice based on years od logged recorded related scenarios shooters and clubs can find themselves in. build relationships with government bodies organisations and law enforcement legal bodies. Loby on our behalf. keep abreast with any pending emerging issues like this very lead shot one currently.  They are a superb organisation. Had issues internally last few years, but even then at the business end  undaunted the BASC kept on providing support through all this.

 As i said before if your not happy, running them down on here is not the way . BASC is yours set about changing BASC. Put it this way, if i felt they were not serving me as strongly as you and others on here apparently do. I would change BASC without a doubt.  Get busy Change BASC.

 No other organisation in the uk has anywhere near the knowledge accumulated experience BASC can bring to bear on a problem or need.

Dont gripe get on and Change BASC.

 

[Dave-G]

I consider it along the lines of the 12ftlb limit and no semi auto air rifles. I don't think either of those issues got a legal challenge which would have been lost at massive expense.

The organisations have possibly been told its going to happen - we'll give you some time if you show willing. 

[harkom]

On 02/03/2020 at 14:32, lancer425 said:

BASC is seeking government financial support for the cartridge manufacturers to underpin the future development of sustainable alternatives to lead shot and had held meetings with ministers and Downing Street advisors to secure this support.

 

I wonder if the bascet cases will have the same success in this --- as they did with "prevention/ management" on the introduction of charge costs on medical certificates for licence renewal..??

[lancer425]

3 minutes ago, harkom said:

I wonder if the bascet cases will have the same success in this --- as they did with "prevention/ management" on the introduction of charge costs on medical certificates for licence renewal..??

Probably just as baD.

[McSpredder]

22 hours ago, 8 shot said:

..... WJ run rings around them on the GL fiasco ....... When one small crowd funded group of activists can back several multi million pound organisations in to a corner and they nearly wave the white flag,

Perhaps that is being a bit hard on the shooting organisations.   The GL case was not WJ versus BASC et al, it was WJ versus UK Government.  

Ordinary people involved in litigation usually want to win, and instruct their lawyers accordingly, knowing that losing the case could cost them a lot of money.

Might senior NE staff have given lawyers the impression (accidentally, of course) that they would actually prefer to yield immediately to WJ demands, rather than attempt any defence of the GLs?   Conceding defeat would have cost those NE staff nothing, the entire bill being charged to the UK taxpayers.

Edited March 7, 2020 by McSpredder

[grahamch]

On 06/03/2020 at 08:39, theshootist said:

If they manage to get financial support from a UK government to develop new types of civilian shotgun cartridge then they will earn my eternal admiration!

They should be seeking financial aid from those in the shooting game itself, some of the richest folk on the planet/from the UK are billionaires and should be approached. But guess no one has the balls to approach them.

[Scully]

12 minutes ago, grahamch said:

They should be seeking financial aid from those in the shooting game itself, some of the richest folk on the planet/from the UK are billionaires and should be approached. But guess no one has the balls to approach them.

This. For all I know the wealthiest of the wealthiest are already funding shooting and developlment. I know a billionaire who owns a local commercial shoot. Yes, a billionaire, not a mere millionaire. 🙂

The money is there, I simply cannot believe we undergo the problems we do, which is why I believe governmental priorities are at play here. It has always been predominantly the playground of the wealthy,  perhaps that is the way it is preferred? 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Scully

[mick miller]

On 06/03/2020 at 23:31, lancer425 said:

Don't gripe get on and Change BASC.

 

Hopefully, if most of its subscribers (that's all they are now) leave, it'll go bust and stop ******* everything up with its ill informed oar poking. 

That's all the change I want to see, nature hates a vacuum, something better will be borne from the collapse. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by mick miller

[lancer425]

3 hours ago, mick miller said:

Hopefully, if most of its subscribers (that's all they are now) leave, it'll go bust and stop ******* everything up with its ill informed oar poking. 

That's all the change I want to see, nature hates a vacuum, something better will be borne from the collapse. 

  I do not agree with you i think without BASC the shooting world would be a very scary and dark wood indeed,  and i think we would be wolf fodder in double quick time. Ill tell you another fairy story tomorrow Mick but you be a good lad now and no more swearing your frightening the Budgie. .

[Teal]

Enough of this squabbling. There is another topic regarding this already running:

 - this one has run its course.