Could you self isolate?

[old man]

Why have we gone our own direction on this instead of following the WHO scheme like all of the rest?

Does this put us at odds with the survival rates and global economics etc of the rest?

We must have some serious smarty's in charge? To be prepared to throw a large percentage of us oldies under the bus must have some great financial benefit for someone? Maybe the powers hope that we all die intestate so they can grab the money?

Thinking on, the herd survival of 60/70 % is not so good for the 40/30 %

Maybe we would have been better off under the non elected in Europe, at least they give the impression of giving a monkey's?  Have to laugh?

[Danger-Mouse]

13 minutes ago, old man said:

 

Maybe we would have been better off under the non elected in Europe, at least they give the impression of giving a monkey's?  Have to laugh?

Well yes the unity the nations of Europe has shown is amazing

Italy "Can we have some face masks, we don't make them"

Germany "Nein"

France "Non"

China "Yes of course"

[old man]

4 minutes ago, Mr_Nobody said:

Well yes the unity the nations of Europe has shown is amazing

Italy "Can we have some face masks, we don't make them"

Germany "Nein"

France "Non"

China "Yes of course"

😄

[Lloyd90]

On the news that Trump was offering a lot of money to a german pharma company for exclusive access to the vaccine... made him sound like a right villain. 
 

It didn’t emphasise much that the Germans who already doing the same thing. 
 

 

[AVB]

Why do the over 70’s have to self isolate? Surely it should be up to the individual. My brother is 72 and is as fit as a fiddle. He is more than willing to to carry on as normal and take his chances. He doesn’t want to be cooped up for four months. 

Edited March 16, 2020 by AVB

[oldypigeonpopper]

33 minutes ago, AVB said:

Why do the over 70’s have to self isolate? Surely it should be up to the individual. My brother is 72 and is as fit as a fiddle. He is more than willing to to carry on as normal and take his chances. He doesn’t want to be cooped up for four months. 

hello, i quite agree AVB, it would be more important to help those over 70s with health issues,

[grrclark]

So much speculation and conjecture on a measure not yet announced, but widely trailed by the media.

There is a POTENTIAL that the elderly will be asked to isolate, there is still a POTENTIAL that we will ALL be asked to isolate.  What is the difference if we take measures to ask the elderly to be abundantly cautious to isolate versus asking everyone to isolate?

What would the naysayers rather have happen?  If we ALL have to isolate that still leaves the elderly in exactly the same position that they would be in anyway.

The reason that there may be a favoured approach in asking the elderly to isolate is that they are the most vulnerable, it would be asking the younger and less vulnerable element of the population to carry the burden of risk.  Why is this a bad thing, please explain?

[39TDS]

Over 70's isolating is so they don't get it. Isn't the death rate amongst the over 70's something like 20%?

The NHS is not going to cope anyway, if you can keep the ones most likely to need help away from infection the benefit is to everybody.

Both my parents are fit, well and active and in their late 70's. I'd like to keep them that way.

[AVB]

48 minutes ago, grrclark said:

So much speculation and conjecture on a measure not yet announced, but widely trailed by the media.

There is a POTENTIAL that the elderly will be asked to isolate, there is still a POTENTIAL that we will ALL be asked to isolate.  What is the difference if we take measures to ask the elderly to be abundantly cautious to isolate versus asking everyone to isolate?

What would the naysayers rather have happen?  If we ALL have to isolate that still leaves the elderly in exactly the same position that they would be in anyway.

The reason that there may be a favoured approach in asking the elderly to isolate is that they are the most vulnerable, it would be asking the younger and less vulnerable element of the population to carry the burden of risk.  Why is this a bad thing, please explain?

If we are all asked to isolate it would be because the health experts feel it is the best way to control the spread of the virus at that point in time. I get that. But asking a small proportion of the population to isolate is not about slowing the spread.  It is about protecting them. What if the don’t want protecting? What if they want to carry on living their life and and managing the risks associated with that themselves? If they want to go sky diving (which is dangerous) then let them. 

[Deker]

1 hour ago, AVB said:

Why do the over 70’s have to self isolate? Surely it should be up to the individual. My brother is 72 and is as fit as a fiddle. He is more than willing to to carry on as normal and take his chances. He doesn’t want to be cooped up for four months. 

 

He may be fine but some of his over 70's friends who he is in contact with may not be so if he doesn't self isolate then he could be the one who passes the virus on to them.

[grrclark]

6 minutes ago, AVB said:

If we are all asked to isolate it would be because the health experts feel it is the best way to control the spread of the virus at that point in time. I get that. But asking a small proportion of the population to isolate is not about slowing the spread.  It is about protecting them. What if the don’t want protecting? What if they want to carry on living their life and and managing the risks associated with that themselves? If they want to go sky diving (which is dangerous) then let them. 

I am very much in agreement about the right to choose whether you wish to be risk averse or not, however as well as the increased mortality rate amongst the 70+ age groups there is also a significantly higher requirement for critical care and it is this that causes the pressure on the system.  If someone dies you change the bed sheets, give stuff a wipe down and you have a free bed.  If someone is in critical care for weeks then that bed is denied for weeks.

People dying quickly isn't a logistical challenge for care providers, temporary cold stores to allow the funeral business to play catch up aside, people requiring continual acute care is the challenge.  All the while this virus is going on the normal every day critical care needs are not lessened any.

So in asking the most vulnerable groups to take on additional measures to ensure their safety also has a much wider societal benefit.  It is not about the individual, it is about the group.

The government asking the elderly to isolate so they don't die is an emotional plea to individuals and family members to put pressure on them to behave in a predetermined way, but the gain is less pressure on critical care staff over an extended period, not a reduction in mortality. 

 

[AVB]

37 minutes ago, Deker said:

 

He may be fine but some of his over 70's friends who he is in contact with may not be so if he doesn't self isolate then he could be the one who passes the virus on to them.

I don’t think you know my brother. 😃he doesn’t have friends over 70. All of his mates are young. That said if the people he mixed with wanted to isolate then obviously he wouldn’t go forcing himself on them. If that’s how they what to manage the risk then so be it. Let the old uns live their life how they want to I say. 

[Deker]

Just now, AVB said:

I don’t think you know my brother. 😃he doesn’t have friends over 70. All of his mates are young. That said if the people he mixed with wanted to isolate then obviously he wouldn’t go forcing himself on them. If that’s how they what to manage the risk then so be it. Let the old uns live their life how they want to I say. 

 

fully agree, my dad (who is 80 and currently undergoing chemo) has said the same but we've had to point out that the people who he socialises with may not feel the same way so he may find the social group gets smaller for a while

[Retsdon]

2 hours ago, AVB said:

Why do the over 70’s have to self isolate?

How it works in every other country in lockdown is that it is a CIVIC DUTY to stay isolated for everyone. Only by people staying isolated can the chain of infection be broken. So it's your civic duty NOT TO GET INFECTED even if you don't think it might not damage you yourself. And it works.  It took more than a month but they did it in China, and they're on their way to doing it in South Korea where recoveries now outnumber new cases by an increasingly large margin.

But I suppose in Britain that's not the plan so why shouldn't 70 year olds go and  take their chances if they want. And then if they pass on the infection - that's just unlucky for some other poor so and so.

[Vince Green]

11 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

It has no option as ten years of a Tory Government has so underfunded the NHS that it cannot now function as it should to deal with this national emergency. Years ago we could have used all those beds as isolation wards in all the cottage hospitals that were closed.

But even before that if this crisis had come in the late 1980s I doubt we could have coped either. We could have used the redundant wards in all the old asylums before they were closed and sold off to the mantra of Thatcher's "care in the community". The NHS had enormous infrastructure assets in hospital facilities and so had a built in slack to be used in time of emergency. Those old tuberculosis hospitals are and example. All of it was disposed of to give tax cuts to Thatcher's cronies.

But it'd be wrong merely to berate the Tories. The closure of Haslar Hospital by Gordon Brown under Labour. Again a huge asset that could have been used today. All gone. Short term gain for what?

The only flaw in your case is that most of the hospitals that were sold off under PPI were sold off by Labour. Blair and Brown to be specific. Like more coal mines closed under Wilson than closed under Thatcher

[AVB]

57 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

How it works in every other country in lockdown is that it is a CIVIC DUTY to stay isolated for everyone. Only by people staying isolated can the chain of infection be broken. So it's your civic duty NOT TO GET INFECTED even if you don't think it might not damage you yourself. And it works.  It took more than a month but they did it in China, and they're on their way to doing it in South Korea where recoveries now outnumber new cases by an increasingly large margin.

But I suppose in Britain that's not the plan so why shouldn't 70 year olds go and  take their chances if they want. And then if they pass on the infection - that's just unlucky for some other poor so and so.

So by isolating 20% of the population this will stop the spread? Of course not. This is supposedly about protecting them when many don’t want protecting. 

If it was about everybody isolating I could understand (and the government have said that they may do this when the time is right) but this is only about the over 70’s at the moment. 

[henry d]

Well I am now officially self isolating.

I may have shingles and spoke to the doctor earlier as they are closed to everything except emergencies, no repeat scrips etc however I also have a temperature (fever?) of 39 ish and no other covid19 symptoms, but the advice is to self isolate, so I will. It`s actually a relief as I was working as much as possible due to me finishing working/retiring again in a few weeks time and I`m petty much done in and as much of that work was in school or McD`s then there will always be a possibility of transmition, in both directions, of all kinds of viruses etc when working in those places. Now how do I get my Mrs to get as much beer in as possible when she doesn`t drive... hmmmmm?

[Smokersmith]

Good luck with the shingles … bl**dy painful in my experience … a lack of beer will be the last thing you're worried about.

Try to get some co-codamol, and pain relief ….

[12gauge82]

6 minutes ago, henry d said:

Well I am now officially self isolating.

I may have shingles and spoke to the doctor earlier as they are closed to everything except emergencies, no repeat scrips etc however I also have a temperature (fever?) of 39 ish and no other covid19 symptoms, but the advice is to self isolate, so I will. It`s actually a relief as I was working as much as possible due to me finishing working/retiring again in a few weeks time and I`m petty much done in and as much of that work was in school or McD`s then there will always be a possibility of transmition, in both directions, of all kinds of viruses etc when working in those places. Now how do I get my Mrs to get as much beer in as possible when she doesn`t drive... hmmmmm?

Online shopping, simples.

Good luck with your recovery 👍

[grrclark]

18 minutes ago, henry d said:

Well I am now officially self isolating.

I may have shingles and spoke to the doctor earlier as they are closed to everything except emergencies, no repeat scrips etc however I also have a temperature (fever?) of 39 ish and no other covid19 symptoms, but the advice is to self isolate, so I will. It`s actually a relief as I was working as much as possible due to me finishing working/retiring again in a few weeks time and I`m petty much done in and as much of that work was in school or McD`s then there will always be a possibility of transmition, in both directions, of all kinds of viruses etc when working in those places. Now how do I get my Mrs to get as much beer in as possible when she doesn`t drive... hmmmmm?

If you didn't have the potential of shingles I'd help out with a beer run for you, Fife isn't so very far away and i could stop in at Perth cash and carry.

Regrettably shingles is much more likely to do me serious mischief than the threat of covid19.

39 minutes ago, AVB said:

So by isolating 20% of the population this will stop the spread? Of course not. This is supposedly about protecting them when many don’t want protecting. 

If it was about everybody isolating I could understand (and the government have said that they may do this when the time is right) but this is only about the over 70’s at the moment. 

As my post above, it isn't about stopping or slowing the spread of infection, it is that 20% of the population that will take up the vast majority of the critical care beds if they get poorly with this disease.

It's not about the dying either, it is about isolating the people that will be the greatest burden to the care system.

[henry d]

20 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

Good luck with the shingles … bl**dy painful in my experience … a lack of beer will be the last thing you're worried about.

Try to get some co-codamol, and pain relief ….

So far it has been mildly irritating and a single paracetamol seems to work

19 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Online shopping, simples.

Good luck with your recovery 👍

Good point

6 minutes ago, grrclark said:

If you didn't have the potential of shingles I'd help out with a beer run for you, Fife isn't so very far away and i could stop in at Perth cash and carry.

Regrettably shingles is much more likely to do me serious mischief than the threat of covid19.

I`m sure I won`t die from a lack of beer and appreciate the thought, the last thing I want to do is pass on any kind of cough, cold, virus never mind anything more dangerous. We have 2 pregnant women at church, so I didn`t go yesterday even though transmitting it is highly unlikely and saw them both in the local supermarket and my wife and I ended up playing a demented pacman game trying to avoid them.

[Smokersmith]

3 minutes ago, henry d said:

I ended up playing a demented pacman game trying to avoid them

Now that's funny.

[henry d]

Very! They saw us a couple of times but we just dodged them down another aisle but we sent a text later to explain

[AVB]

58 minutes ago, grrclark said:

If you didn't have the potential of shingles I'd help out with a beer run for you, Fife isn't so very far away and i could stop in at Perth cash and carry.

Regrettably shingles is much more likely to do me serious mischief than the threat of covid19.

As my post above, it isn't about stopping or slowing the spread of infection, it is that 20% of the population that will take up the vast majority of the critical care beds if they get poorly with this disease.

It's not about the dying either, it is about isolating the people that will be the greatest burden to the care system.

I get that and it makes some sense. My response was to Retsdon’s normal rant about how the U.K. government isn’t doing enough (which is rich coming from somebody who lives in Saudi) and his statement was that the isolation of over 70’s was to slow the spread. 

There was a sensible doctor on Radio 2 at lunch time who said it was all about risk management. A fit, active 71 year old was lower risk than a 95 year old with health problems (and also compared with a 65 year old with health problems).  So saying that 70 is the cutoff seems a blunt instrument to me. 

[johnphilip]

6 hours ago, Mr_Nobody said:

Well yes the unity the nations of Europe has shown is amazing

Italy "Can we have some face masks, we don't make them"

Germany "Nein"

France "Non"

China "Yes of course"

So true they asked for help , and both those countries  said no , so much for the EU .