Swan shot on nest

[Rewulf]

20 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, i just googled,  foreign criminals caught in UK,  better still try to find the percentage of foreign against english in UK prisons, although you may get british born of foreign descent, another fact is the MET police have/ did have a team of officers just dedicated to Roma criminals, their foot soldiers came over 100s every year to assess possible criminal activities

Foreign citizens make up 9% of the general population and 12% of the prison population in England and Wales.

There are no readily available figures for those in prison who are born abroad.

 

[WalkedUp]

So statistically a foreign born individual in the UK is 38.5% more likely to be incarcerated than their British born equivalent? An interesting comparison that could be used by both liberals and hawks to justify contrary arguments. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

15 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Foreign citizens make up 9% of the general population and 12% of the prison population in England and Wales.

There are no readily available figures for those in prison who are born abroad.

 

Hello, if that is correct not as many as i thought, but add the 27% of minority nationals that is still a lot of non UK citizens

[Rewulf]

Just now, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, if that is correct not as many as i thought, but add the 27% of minority nationals that is still a lot of non UK citizens

Thats the ones that got put in prison.

Those that got caught and convicted and not put in prison is another story.

It has no relation really on the crime figures, and it has no relation on those that may have come to this country and obtained citizenship.

If you believe that proportionately those born outside of the UK commit more crime per capita than those born here , then you are quite likely correct.

But no government is going to publish such figures, its all about social cohesion and diversity 

[oowee]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Foreign citizens make up 9% of the general population and 12% of the prison population in England and Wales.

There are no readily available figures for those in prison who are born abroad.

 

So what? 

Try an analysis of the proportion of uk residents living in poverty and the proportion of those making up the prison population. Then take any racial group and look at what proportion of the population living in poverty they represent and then compare this to the coresponding proportion of the overall prison population.  

2 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, if that is correct not as many as i thought, but add the 27% of minority nationals that is still a lot of non UK citizens

? 

[old'un]

5 minutes ago, oowee said:

So what? 

Try an analysis of the proportion of uk residents living in poverty and the proportion of those making up the prison population. Then take any racial group and look at what proportion of the population living in poverty they represent and then compare this to the coresponding proportion of the overall prison population.  

? 

What has poverty got to-do with crime and what is poverty in the UK.

[Walker570]

 

10 minutes ago, oowee said:

So what? 

Try an analysis of the proportion of uk residents living in poverty and the proportion of those making up the prison population. Then take any racial group and look at what proportion of the population living in poverty they represent and then compare this to the coresponding proportion of the overall prison population.  

? 

Those I regularly see, who shout that they are in poverty are usually obese and have a grands worth of tattoos up their bodies.  I have known a fair few folks in the last 70yrs who are not 'wealthy' and have to think twice before they spend what money they have, but they where not criminals.

Do not even start me on the so called 'homeless'.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Walker570

[oowee]

7 minutes ago, old'un said:

What has poverty got to-do with crime and what is poverty in the UK.

There may be a correlation between the prison population and those living in poverty (or at the lower end of the income scale if you prefer) where the those from less financially secure backgrounds are disproportionately represented in the prison population. If there is a similar correlation between those from any minority background and the prison population you might draw the conclusion that it is the background of poverty that is the concern, rather than the minority group into which they are identified. 

2 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, if that is correct not as many as i thought, but add the 27% of minority nationals that is still a lot of non UK citizens

What does this mean?

 

13 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

I have known a fair few folks in the last 70yrs who are not 'wealthy' and have to think twice before they spend what money they have, but they where not criminals.

 

Most of us have, as most of those less wealthy will not be criminals. I guess that the majority of the UK population are not criminals (have no record)? Is the same not likely to be true of any grouping of UK indivduals, other than the prison population of course. 

[old'un]

18 minutes ago, oowee said:

There may be a correlation between the prison population and those living in poverty (or at the lower end of the income scale if you prefer) where the those from less financially secure backgrounds are disproportionately represented in the prison population. If there is a similar correlation between those from any minority background and the prison population you might draw the conclusion that it is the background of poverty that is the concern, rather than the minority group into which they are identified. 

What does this mean?

 

Most of us have, as most of those less wealthy will not be criminals. I guess that the majority of the UK population are not criminals (have no record)? Is the same not likely to be true of any grouping of UK indivduals, other than the prison population of course. 

I would like to know what this “living in poverty” is? Is it a reason to commit crime? Do people in the UK know what real poverty is?

[Rewulf]

43 minutes ago, oowee said:

So what? 

You can bring in any and all correlations you like, but it is fairly widely accepted that per capita , foreign migrants commit more crime than our own 'home grown' scumbags.

Its widely accepted (by the police) that most sex trafficking , and many aspects of the hard drug trade are controlled by Albanian gangs, are all Albanians criminals ? No.
Its not arguable that over the past 20 years , most Islamic terrorism in the UK has been committed by people who were not born of this country.Are all Muslims terrorists? No.
Do you want to argue that most pickpockets are not Roma's ? Are all Romanians bad ? No.

We live with it, there isnt a point, it just 'is' 

So , back to the OP , do you think it was teenage boys , Travs or Foreign nationals who maimed the swan ?

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

We live with it, there isnt a point, it just 'is' 

So , back to the OP , do you think it was teenage boys , Travs or Foreign nationals who maimed the swan ?

Surely the point is to understand the root of an issue then we can tackle the cause. 

Someone with access to an 8mm ball bearing that has ignored UK law, is surely all we know. Maybe drawing other assumptions merely reflects our own prejudice's and insecurities? 

 

[Rewulf]

5 minutes ago, oowee said:

Surely the point is to understand the root of an issue then we can tackle the cause. 

The patient needs to recognise it is sick before it asks for the cure.
We as a nation , and many others in the first world, see the crime, and blame it on poverty, or poor education, but in reality , poverty is just a series of numbers that someone has come up with.
Were we not recently told some 15 million of us live in poverty because those households dont earn £xxx K  per annum ?
Thats a lot of potential criminals we are going to do nothing about except to try and pacify them with more (benefit) money ?

Education in this country is excellent, and free, it gives EVERYONE an opportunity to better oneself, so why do some flatly refuse to take advantage of it ?
To chase some 'get rich or die tryin' modus operandi, be a bad *** or gangsta ?

13 minutes ago, oowee said:

Someone with access to an 8mm ball bearing that has ignored UK law, is surely all we know. Maybe drawing other assumptions merely reflects our own prejudice's and insecurities? 

Now were talking, someone who has gone to the trouble to acquire the most lethal and accurate catapult ammo.
Kids being little scumbags, or someone with intent to kill the swan ?

Leaving prejudice at the door, what is the more likely scenario ?

[oowee]

15 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

The patient needs to recognise it is sick before it asks for the cure.
We as a nation , and many others in the first world, see the crime, and blame it on poverty, or poor education, but in reality , poverty is just a series of numbers that someone has come up with.
Were we not recently told some 15 million of us live in poverty because those households dont earn £xxx K  per annum ?
Thats a lot of potential criminals we are going to do nothing about except to try and pacify them with more (benefit) money ?

Education in this country is excellent, and free, it gives EVERYONE an opportunity to better oneself, so why do some flatly refuse to take advantage of it ?
To chase some 'get rich or die tryin' modus operandi, be a bad *** or gangsta ?

Now were talking, someone who has gone to the trouble to acquire the most lethal and accurate catapult ammo.
Kids being little scumbags, or someone with intent to kill the swan ?

Leaving prejudice at the door, what is the more likely scenario ?

I would not put the blame on poverty alone but a combination of the flaws of the society within which we live. The greater the prosperity the greater the number at the margins. What would you blame crime on? Genes or maybe some divine intervention? I would rather look at the facts and decide action as a result. 

[grrclark]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

Surely the point is to understand the root of an issue then we can tackle the cause. 

Someone with access to an 8mm ball bearing that has ignored UK law, is surely all we know. Maybe drawing other assumptions merely reflects our own prejudice's and insecurities? 

 

A truer word never said.

 

[derbyduck]

so did anyone get to eat the swan ?

[oldypigeonpopper]

On 28/04/2020 at 16:14, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, could not read the link but often happens on the Thames, EU nationals like eating swan, i think Windsor  way they shot quite a few one night in 2017, yes killed 2 10 wounded

hello, all i can see in local paper is those at windsor were shot by a gang for fun, and sadly 2 died, they count all the swans on the Thames every year so a fall in numbers from last year may account for more being taken and not reported as most happens at night

[fse10]

On 30/04/2020 at 10:29, henry d said:

Racist rubbish

What planet do you live on? See it every day and always non British. How can it be racist if it's true and they are non British EU immigrants. You sure you're not a snowflake as you seem to get upset a lot.

[panoma1]

Just because someone comes from a poor, underprivileged background, does not mean they are destined to be a criminal! Not if they are bought up properly!.....On the other hand, for example......a well known, high profile, career labour politician paid for her son to attend private schools, received a university education, then presumably on merit, got a well paid government job, in fact it seems he received all the privilege and advantages, influence and money from the public purse could provide.....he then turns out to be a violent criminal with a problem with authority!............Criminality has little to do with poverty or wealth!.......It’s more to do with someone’s nature and a reflection of the way they are bought up!

To the politically correct, revealing a criminals ethnicity would bring immediate accusations of racism! To others it’s important data, vital when allocating resources into targeted crime prevention!

[Rewulf]

50 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

To the politically correct, revealing a criminals ethnicity would bring immediate accusations of racism! To others it’s important data, vital when allocating resources into targeted crime prevention!

This .
 

[old man]

On 01/05/2020 at 16:37, oowee said:

Surely the point is to understand the root of an issue then we can tackle the cause. 

 

 

That would be a start but where would we ever find the actual truth in this age of smoke and mirrors?

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by old man

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, well i know fish theft is true as seen it happen myself, also some time back from a trout fishery only to be discovered being sold in a certain foreign national shop

Edited May 3, 2020 by oldypigeonpopper

[henry d]

On 02/05/2020 at 12:05, fse10 said:

What planet do you live on? See it every day and always non British. How can it be racist if it's true and they are non British EU immigrants. You sure you're not a snowflake as you seem to get upset a lot.

This one, and I see it differently here, 99.999% white british/scottish. Nope, just redressing the racist toot that gets trotted out.

[Rewulf]

13 minutes ago, henry d said:

This one, and I see it differently here, 99.999% white british/scottish. Nope, just redressing the racist toot that gets trotted out.

Apparently its now racist to speculate it MIGHT have been someone not born of this country, classic 

[grrclark]

4 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Apparently its now racist to speculate it MIGHT have been someone not born of this country, classic 

I think that the outright claim of it being a foreign national without any of the detail does lend itself even more towards it being a racist comment, almost every other comment posted since by the same contributer follows that theme.

Of course we can use sophistry to try and argue otherwise, but as HenryD says there is a lot of racist toot trotted out on this forum, or if it is not racism it is unbridled stupidity and wilful ignorance.

Edited May 4, 2020 by grrclark

[Rewulf]

10 minutes ago, grrclark said:

I think that the outright claim of it being a foreign national without any of the detail does lend itself even more towards it being a racist comment, almost every other comment posted since by the same contributer follows that theme.

Im not sure that anyone could say it definitely was a foreign national , any more than they could say it was a white English kid, but plenty speculated it was.

To point the finger at ANYONE without proof is wrong, but there are some that rear up out of their cages every time someone mentions that it might have been someone from a minority.
 

13 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Of course we can use sophistry to try and argue otherwise, but as HenryD says there is a lot of racist toot trotted out on this forum, or if it is not racism it is unbridled stupidity and wilful ignorance.

So sophistry aside, does henry have to remind us every now and again how 'racist' we all are on here ?
As you mention , there is plenty of stupidity and ignorance , that is a reflection of the world we live in, just because anothers world view differs though, does not make them particularly stupid, some were born in different times and different places, and pointing out that their view is no longer 'popular' will not sway them from that view.

Especially when you say their view is born of ignorance.