LIFTING THE LOCKDOWN!

[AVB]

5 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

How are you "Not going to accept that?"

I suppose I should have said given the choice of having a tracking app or just ending the lockdown I would choose ending the lockdown. 

[Rewulf]

11 minutes ago, AVB said:

The state tracking your movements. No way would I accept that. 

They already do, your phone , the sat nav in your car.
The only difference with the app , if you can call it that, is you are giving permission to be tracked for the purposes of isolating the disease.

You have probably given permission on phone apps to all kinds of entities.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

The ability to track you by your mobile phone has been with us for years!

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, AVB said:

I suppose I should have said given the choice of having a tracking app or just ending the lockdown I would choose ending the lockdown. 

Aah , got you. 

[AVB]

4 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

They already do, your phone , the sat nav in your car.
The only difference with the app , if you can call it that, is you are giving permission to be tracked for the purposes of isolating the disease.

You have probably given permission on phone apps to all kinds of entities.

As far as I am aware The State (the police or any other government appointed body) doesn’t sit and actively monitor my movements and if I were to go somewhere I am not supposed to be immediately come and arrest me. 
I don’t buy the “ah it only impacts you if you have something to hide” argument and the thought of no go zones and  active monitoring of movements rather sinister. It wouldn’t be accepted by the majority of people imo. 

[clangerman]

9 minutes ago, AVB said:

As far as I am aware The State (the police or any other government appointed body) doesn’t sit and actively monitor my movements and if I were to go somewhere I am not supposed to be immediately come and arrest me. 
I don’t buy the “ah it only impacts you if you have something to hide” argument and the thought of no go zones and  active monitoring of movements rather sinister. It wouldn’t be accepted by the majority of people imo. 

if you were pinched when you are up to no good the government would have to admit they do monitor almost every move we make 

[Rewulf]

10 minutes ago, AVB said:

As far as I am aware The State (the police or any other government appointed body) doesn’t sit and actively monitor my movements and if I were to go somewhere I am not supposed to be immediately come and arrest me. 

Probably not, but it CAN ,if it chooses to.
For this , it doesnt need your acceptance, or any one elses.
All it needs to do is follow due process, ie 'reason to suspect' ect.

 

12 minutes ago, AVB said:

I don’t buy the “ah it only impacts you if you have something to hide” argument and the thought of no go zones and  active monitoring of movements rather sinister. It wouldn’t be accepted by the majority of people imo.

You buy into tech these days ,and being monitored is part of that buy in, call it enriching the user experience if you will , but its possibility of abuse is VAST.

There is a common theme running at the moment about Huawei tech, and the security holes supposedly therein , but we have millions of pieces of Huawei tech , phones , routers and dongles in this country , and have had for years.
Its a drop in the ocean, 90 % of the people in this country are 'connected' and can be monitored, IF the state so desires.

[Zapp]

The use of anonymised mobile phone data to monitor compliance with restrictions was authorised in March.

This can be used to provid things like a time-lagged (12 to 24 hour) view on movements to provide a view on things like how many trips out per day people are taking, averaged across the population.

That in turn can inform thinking around whether measures can be eased, how quickly and in what order.

[Old farrier]

13 minutes ago, clangerman said:

if you were pinched when you are up to no good the government would have to admit they do monitor almost every move we make 

Do you not have any cctv in your local town? 
it’s already out there the capability to monitor your everyday movements is vastly underestimated 

[clangerman]

17 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Do you not have any cctv in your local town? 
it’s already out there the capability to monitor your everyday movements is vastly underestimated 

probably more than most towns every lamppost seems to have a camera 

[Old farrier]

3 minutes ago, clangerman said:

probably more than most towns every lamppost seems to have a camera 

Then you’re being monitored weather the government admits it or not 😂

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Watch out, they are watching your every move!

[Mice!]

41 minutes ago, Zapp said:

This can be used to provid things like a time-lagged (12 to 24 hour) view on movements to provide a view on things like how many trips out per day people are taking, averaged across the population.

I trick them and leave my phone at home, they'll never suspect anyone would do that 😉

[Raja Clavata]

We have a UK based division who deal in data analytics - the rest of us aren't even allowed to know the full list of all the agencies they do work for - all I know is most of us haven't got a clue about the extent of data that is being generated, and subsequently analysed, based on the various "footprints" we leave as a function of going about ordinary life.

[Lord v]

15 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

We have a UK based division who deal in data analytics - the rest of us aren't even allowed to know the full list of all the agencies they do work for - all I know is most of us haven't got a clue about the extent of data that is being generated, and subsequently analysed, based on the various "footprints" we leave as a function of going about ordinary life.

It's huge. Living and breathing in the western world generates massive data. 

Unless I have been reading the wrong articles the tracking app doesn't track your location, just the digital handshakes. 

So you download the app and this generates your individual 'hand'. For example abc.123. (probably generated by your phone number/Bluetooth id/random number) 

Your phone pings this out every 5 minutes (say) . If there is a reply from another 'hand' this generates a handshake stored locally in your phone with time and date data. In this case say abc.123 = def.456 (TaD). 

It seems 15 minutes contact is the magic number. Therefore if this is repeated every 5 minutes if two instances of the same code (abc.123 = def.456) is recorded this is pinged to a central database as well as stored for two weeks on your phone. 

Other than the individual code and time and date data nothing is required. 

Now say 'def.456' gets sick. They log onto the app and tell it so. (personally I would add an authentication code provided when you have a test for covid, this would help prevent anyone gaming the system) 

'def.456' is then red flagged on the central database. 

This bit seems a bit hazy but the system either then runs that id through and pushes a message out to the opposing id (abc.123) and/or 'abc.123' app runs a check every few hours for Red flagged ids against its internal list of hand shakes. 

'abc.123' could then either go receive a test (if the contact was early enough in the two week period for this to be effective) or start a period of self isolation. (this could then be backed up by authentication codes from a positive/negative test if required)

The hand shake data can expire after two weeks. 

There is no need to constantly track a physical location. The system will only track who the phone has been in close contact with so there is no need to store or record personal information beyond a phone number. The rest is easily anomanysed. 

In all honesty it will record far less data than Google and Facebook generally do anyway. It maybe a bit of a ****** for crims who's phone numbers are known but they can get round that by, you know, leaving the phone at home if they are going to be naughty. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, did i hear Boris is going to address the nation Sunday with his easing of lock down proposals,

[Old Boggy]

4 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, did i hear Boris is going to address the nation Sunday with his easing of lock down proposals,

I have just been notified of a 5 phase easing of lock down giving dates commencing 18th May through to 10th August. Sorry cannot do a link.

OB

[TIGHTCHOKE]

N. Ireland have a plan.......

With those dates......

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52532143

Edited May 5, 2020 by TIGHTCHOKE

[oldypigeonpopper]

3 minutes ago, Old Boggy said:

I have just been notified of a 5 phase easing of lock down giving dates commencing 18th May through to 10th August. Sorry cannot do a link.

OB

hello, cheers, as long as we can get out i will be happy, by that my usual routine shooting/fishing/shopping/cooking/sleep

[Scully]

2 hours ago, Old farrier said:

Do you not have any cctv in your local town? 
it’s already out there the capability to monitor your everyday movements is vastly underestimated 

They put up CCTV in my local town many moons ago because of ‘increased activity’ during Fair week. They are of the dome variety  which hang down similar to street lamps. If there are cameras in there ( which may dispute ) then they’re underwater as all you can see in them is rainwater. 
Cameras are put in place prior to each Fair, but usually outside each pub, and they are removed at Fairs end. 

[Old Boggy]

11 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

N. Ireland have a plan.......

With those dates......

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52532143

That makes me now wonder if someone has sent me NI’s version as we weren’t to find out until Sunday !!

Yep, just checked and they are indeed NI’s version. Sorry about that. Have to wait until Sunday now. Got quite excited there.

OB

Edited May 5, 2020 by Old Boggy

[TIGHTCHOKE]

8 minutes ago, Old Boggy said:

That makes me now wonder if someone has sent me NI’s version as we weren’t to find out until Sunday !!

Yep, just checked and they are indeed NI’s version. Sorry about that. Have to wait until Sunday now. Got quite excited there.

OB

Sorry to rain on your parade Mate.

[AVB]

2 hours ago, Lord v said:

It's huge. Living and breathing in the western world generates massive data. 

Unless I have been reading the wrong articles the tracking app doesn't track your location, just the digital handshakes. 

So you download the app and this generates your individual 'hand'. For example abc.123. (probably generated by your phone number/Bluetooth id/random number) 

Your phone pings this out every 5 minutes (say) . If there is a reply from another 'hand' this generates a handshake stored locally in your phone with time and date data. In this case say abc.123 = def.456 (TaD). 

It seems 15 minutes contact is the magic number. Therefore if this is repeated every 5 minutes if two instances of the same code (abc.123 = def.456) is recorded this is pinged to a central database as well as stored for two weeks on your phone. 

Other than the individual code and time and date data nothing is required. 

Now say 'def.456' gets sick. They log onto the app and tell it so. (personally I would add an authentication code provided when you have a test for covid, this would help prevent anyone gaming the system) 

'def.456' is then red flagged on the central database. 

This bit seems a bit hazy but the system either then runs that id through and pushes a message out to the opposing id (abc.123) and/or 'abc.123' app runs a check every few hours for Red flagged ids against its internal list of hand shakes. 

'abc.123' could then either go receive a test (if the contact was early enough in the two week period for this to be effective) or start a period of self isolation. (this could then be backed up by authentication codes from a positive/negative test if required)

The hand shake data can expire after two weeks. 

There is no need to constantly track a physical location. The system will only track who the phone has been in close contact with so there is no need to store or record personal information beyond a phone number. The rest is easily anomanysed. 

In all honesty it will record far less data than Google and Facebook generally do anyway. It maybe a bit of a ****** for crims who's phone numbers are known but they can get round that by, you know, leaving the phone at home if they are going to be naughty. 

I don’t have a problem with this sort of ‘tracking’. It was the proposal made on here that you should only be allowed to stay within your allocated zone and active tracking used to monitor people going outside of ‘their zone’.  

[SpringDon]

Track and trace will be anonymised unlike all the data which is kept by service providers for 12 months. Only persons of interest are actively monitored. I notice recent dramas on tv where suspects had to explain why their phone was switched off

[Old farrier]

33 minutes ago, AVB said:

I don’t have a problem with this sort of ‘tracking’. It was the proposal made on here that you should only be allowed to stay within your allocated zone and active tracking used to monitor people going outside of ‘their zone’.  

Well the topic title is lifting the lockdown 

your quite happy to have a coach load of people down from the city for the weekend?