Cummings in the soup?

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

So did he NEED to drive to Durham or was it just his favoured choice

That is not up to me, you, or anyone else to decide.  It is his choice - and his alone - provided he obeys the law.  IF the Police and CPS believe he has not obeyed the law and chose to charge him ........ then it would be up to whatever court level applies, but he hasn't been even spoken to by the Police, let alone charged.

 

9 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

It seems now there are some quite major differences between the account that Cummings gave yesterday and one his wife published in the Spectator.

I have not read her account, but have it on hearsay that she was attempting to indicate they were in London because they didn't want the press to find them.  Remember that part of the reason for going to Durham was to avoid (alleged) threats of harm/disruption/harassment.  I can understand when both have been ill that they do  not need that.  I am not condoning what they did - which I consider 'unwise', or what they wrote about it - which I can understand, but believe it would have been better to say nothing.

 

14 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

It will be interesting to see how this thing plays out. 

I don't deny it is 'interesting', but really it is trivia in the grand scheme of things - a real mountain out of a molehill.

• Man acts in what he believes to be the best interests of his family
• No law was broken
• No one was put at risk
• Elements of the press 'have it in' for that man (for other reasons) - and make a huge issue out of one unwise (and rather trivial) series of events

[oowee]

53 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

 

I don't deny it is 'interesting', but really it is trivia in the grand scheme of things - a real mountain out of a molehill.

Mountain out of molehill? More a spot light on the way we our country is being run. 

[lancer425]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

Mountain out of molehill? More a spot light on the way we our country is being run. 

Agree the Media should be ashamed at the way it is attempting to run  our country. Thank god we have Boris Johnson .

[Danger-Mouse]

I've read a whole bunch of arguments. Some, perhaps many, are correct. 

For me it comes down to how much do the media want this? How much of it is a witch-hunt? Has Cummings done something so bad I desire him to lose his job over?

I do think the media are hounding him. They were looking for any opportunity and they seized upon this one.  Plus they're a bunch of hypocrites, cramming their photographers and reporters together looking for "that shot, that quote". Let them judge themselves so harshly then I'll support their cause.

Simple answer to the last question is "No, I don't desire him to lose his job over it". He didn't break the law and I'm not going to call him for playing a little fast with the rules because I did so myself. Ultimately I think he was doing the best he could for his family.

A tad hypocritical of me? Yes probably but honestly I don't care. Others have gotten away with more.

[clangerman]

mountain or mole hill must admit when it comes to outraging the general public cummings has no equal he might as well form his own hate party 

[Retsdon]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

More a spot light on the way we our country is being run. 

That's the issue really. The worry, for me anyway, isn't Cummings himself as a person, so much as that it has now become obvious that his influence and power far exceeds the influence and power that goes with the job of an advisor. It's not party political, it's constitutional. Britain's constitutional rules are a bit of a dog's breakfast - a mix of tradition and convention with a veneer of parliamentary legislation grafted on the top. But they're  full of holes and rely on people within the political system having a higher loyalty to this unwritten system than they do to their own political ambitions or aims. In other words the absence of a properly codified system leaves it open to abuse and the only thing that makes the system work is old fashioned honor and duty.

And here' my beef with Cummings and this government. Although I don't agree with their policies, it makes no difference  - I'd have the same concerns if it were a Labour SPAD addressing the country on national TV like some sort of Tsar.  This isn't how the system is supposed to work in Britain. The kind of power the Cummings obviously wields belongs to Crown ministers.  Ministers have privileges but they also have responsibility and personal accountability to Parliament. And i'ts  this accountability that keeps the system working and it's this  accountability that distinguishes the United Kingdom from places like Zimbabwe. Take it away and you're on a very slippery slope.

 Cummings, despite his obvious political power, apparently has no such accountability to Parliament. And that's dangerous because Britain is meant to be a parliamentary democracy. Yet at the moment it almost seems like ALL power has been concentrated in the hands of a very small clique who have very little regard, in fact contempt, for the constitutional traditions of the country.

There, my political rant over....

 

 

[oisin og]

I’m intrigued that none of the many supporters of the Tory party who regularly post have raised the issue of Dominic Cummings.

Do people consider that his story is credible?

Were his actions in driving to his fathers home place justified?

Should the PM continue to support him or sack him?
 

What do you think?

[AVB]

2 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

That's the issue really. The worry, for me anyway, isn't Cummings himself as a person, so much as that it has now become obvious that his influence and power far exceeds the influence and power that goes with the job of an advisor. It's not party political, it's constitutional. Britain's constitutional rules are a bit of a dog's breakfast - a mix of tradition and convention with a veneer of parliamentary legislation grafted on the top. But they're  full of holes and rely on people within the political system having a higher loyalty to this unwritten system than they do to their own political ambitions or aims. In other words the absence of a properly codified system leaves it open to abuse and the only thing that makes the system work is old fashioned honor and duty.

And here' my beef with Cummings and this government. Although I don't agree with their policies, it makes no difference  - I'd have the same concerns if it were a Labour SPAD addressing the country on national TV like some sort of Tsar.  This isn't how the system is supposed to work in Britain. The kind of power the Cummings obviously wields belongs to Crown ministers.  Ministers have privileges but they also have responsibility and personal accountability to Parliament. And i'ts  this accountability that keeps the system working and it's this  accountability that distinguishes the United Kingdom from places like Zimbabwe. Take it away and you're on a very slippery slope.

 Cummings, despite his obvious political power, apparently has no such accountability to Parliament. And that's dangerous because Britain is meant to be a parliamentary democracy. Yet at the moment it almost seems like ALL power has been concentrated in the hands of a very small clique who have very little regard, in fact contempt, for the constitutional traditions of the country.

There, my political rant over....

 

 

But they have always been around. Cameron had Hilton, Blair had Campbell, Heath had Armstrong. Some were more well known than others but they have been around for years. Perhaps more high profile nowadays but that’s just the nature of politics nowadays. 

[grrclark]

You’ve missed the 18 pages so far...

[Yellow Bear]

look here

 

[Raja Clavata]

All things being equal, Cummings would be gone by now. Things are clearly not equal.

I must admit I’d forgotten about the whole Savid Javid fiasco, an oversight on my part.

I was all for giving Boris time but this episode has done it for me. He can’t let Cummings go because he’d be finished as PM, I get that but it doesn’t make it right. This is the start of Boris’ undoing, we haven’t even scratched the surface of the whole COVID gig yet and his ratings are tumbling. 

Boris needs to get Brexit over the line and then make way for someone who can win the next election, in part by allowing people like me to return to voting Tory again. 
 

Lastly on Cummings again, I’m hearing on one hand he’s a strategic genius because he got the public to vote leave but on the other hand the same public were manipulated by a half witted press to turn on him. Strange logic.

 

[Retsdon]

2 minutes ago, AVB said:

Perhaps more high profile nowadays but that’s just the nature of politics nowadays. 

Well,  I agree they've always been around. But I think Cummings has moved the job. In the past, people like those you mention were almost wholly political strategists whose influence on policy was mostly about giving advice on spinning appearances. Cummings is different. He's basically running the country and that's not the same thing at all.

2 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I must admit I’d forgotten about the whole Savid Javid fiasco

There you go. A SPAD  engineering the resignation of the Chancellor, one of the Great Officers of State.  What's that all about?

[oisin og]

I’m sorry, I completely missed that.

Mea culpa.

[Diver One]

Just now, oisin og said:

I’m sorry, I completely missed that.

Mea culpa.

You could go on an uneccesary car trip to see if your eyes are working correctly

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Mountain out of molehill? More a spot light on the way we our country is being run. 

Yes, a mountain out of a molehill, and whatever spotlight you shine on it, it will remain a molehill.

29 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

addressing the country on national TV like some sort of Tsar

He was answering a series of allegations made by the national press by giving his side of the story ........ and he made it crystal clear at the start he was speaking in a personal capacity - not on behalf of any party, or in any official capacity.  I imagine national TV needed no persuasion and fell over themselves to show it

[AVB]

3 hours ago, TRINITY said:

GUYS

for what it's worth, I have been talking to someone in the Tory party this afternoon and learnt quite a few facts about this incident that I was not aware of. The media have known about this for weeks but have held back to cause maximum damage. Cummings is a side issue to cause maximum damage to the government. More stuff is coming and it's all down to stopping Brexit. 

For instance, I did not know,and it's never been mentioned the little boy is autistic . I have an autistic boy in my family and I can assure you they are very difficult to care for. Getting child care would have been a nightmare, in all fairness to Cummings he has not used that to defend his actions. 

More stuff has gone on that opened my eyes into the whole background of the affair, so watch this space. For those who are brexiteers, let's hope the Tories can close ranks and hold on to the point of no Brexit return at the end of June, with or without a deal.

Mark Sedwill by any chance? 

[TRINITY]

20 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Well,  I agree they've always been around. But I think Cummings has moved the job. In the past, people like those you mention were almost wholly political strategists whose influence on policy was mostly about giving advice on spinning appearances. Cummings is different. He's basically running the country and that's not the same thing at all.

 

That's the opposite from what I am hearing. Whitehall spend more time briefing EU than they do the British government. Cummings got amongst them and spoiled their little remaining plots. No coincidence Frost is getting the upper hand on Barnier, and those Whitehall remainers dont like it. I suspect that's what stirred up the poo at the foreign office.

[Retsdon]

3 minutes ago, AVB said:

Mark Sedwill by any chance? 

He's in the Tory party? 😮

[TRINITY]

Just now, Retsdon said:

He's in the Tory party? 😮

So was Teresa may ,look at her phoney attempt to quit EU, then heseltine, major etc. 

Cummings is not running the country you are miles off !  What he is doing ,is stopping others running the country and they dont like it ! 

All Cummings is doing is making sure the country is being run by the correct and legitimate people.

[Retsdon]

8 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

.... and he made it crystal clear at the start he was speaking in a personal capacity -

Of course. Cummings driving to stay with his parents is hardly a matter of State.  So why from the rose garden of Number 10? What affords his personal affairs that kind of status?

3 minutes ago, TRINITY said:

So was Teresa may ,look at her phoney attempt to quit EU, then heseltine, major etc.

They're all against us! And they're all in it together!

As I pointed out yesterday, once the bunker mentality has set in there's only ever one outcome.

[The Heron]

So I am not prepared to trawl through nineteen pages on here but if DC is so important to Boris how come he is not more prominent in the government apparently Boris cannot function without him but he is a shadow figure Margaret Thatcher would have dealt with this in five minutes now there was a woman with balls. 

[oowee]

23 minutes ago, The Heron said:

So I am not prepared to trawl through nineteen pages on here but if DC is so important to Boris how come he is not more prominent in the government apparently Boris cannot function without him but he is a shadow figure Margaret Thatcher would have dealt with this in five minutes now there was a woman with balls. 

Because the Govt and civil service is full of people that have been doing things in a certain way. They know how its done and what works and doesn't work. Along comes Brexit (disruptive politics) and we need a new way of doing things. There is very limited capacity to think differently (including BJ) without someone like DC. He is the brains behind the bluster.

[lancer425]

OH!  ****!  the Lab  is swimming now Its geeing deep round here roll up your boots .

[clangerman]

9 minutes ago, oowee said:

Because the Govt and civil service is full of people that have been doing things in a certain way. They know how its done and what works and doesn't work. Along comes Brexit (disruptive politics) and we need a new way of doing things. There is very limited capacity to think differently (including BJ) without someone like DC. He is the brains behind the bluster.

if cummings is the brains of the outfit that explains everything no wonder i thought boris was the biggest tool on the planet 

[grrclark]

1 hour ago, Diver One said:

You could go on an uneccesary car trip to see if your eyes are working correctly

Didn’t deserve to be missed, well played.