Cummings in the soup?

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, lancer425 said:

Please explain why Cummings not breaking the law fails to be A credible defence   please?   asking for a friend.

When did Johnson fail to do the right thing.?

Why do you think, johnson needs Cummings to "o close out Brexit for him"? t

 

Cummings: Because it's not a legal matter. It's a moral one. Cummings is so arrogant he wouldn't even concede that he held any regret over his actions. Has he ever admitted to being wrong about anything?

Johnson: When he chose not to diffuse the situation by admitting that Cummings did wrong, apologising on his behalf and urging the country to move on. That's all that was needed most likely.

Just now, Retsdon said:

I don't respond to the ad hominems. One, I didn't come on this site to make enemies and once insults start being traded, it's going down that route. Two, it's a natural instinct when you can't actually win directly to try and win indirectly. It's human nature.  And the way things are at the moment, anyone whose goal is to defend this government's record and competence is basically completely out of ammunition. The magazine is empty.

So they pick up bricks and throw those instead! Not a worry.

This is actually water off a ducks back for me these days. I am totally cool with being in the minority from a PW perspective, to the point that if some agreed with me I'd be pretty certain I was wrong. 🙂 

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

Cummings: Because it's not a legal matter. It's a moral one.

It's also a practical one. What's happening now is that when it comes to any kind of isolation instructions government spokespeople are having to obfuscate and hedge so as not to imply that Cummings was wrong. Also, every man and his dog now has the 'Cummings defence' when they don't want to comply with Covid instructions. And it's going to cost people's lives.

[Smokersmith]

I know !! The dog with the bone was about 8 pages ago

[panoma1]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

I don't respond to the ad hominems. One, I didn't come on this site to make enemies and once insults start being traded, it's going down that route. Two, it's a natural instinct when you can't actually win directly to try and win indirectly. It's human nature.  And the way things are at the moment, anyone whose goal is to defend this government's record and competence is basically completely out of ammunition. The magazine is empty.

So they pick up bricks and throw those instead! Not a worry.

But you and Raja Clavata, believe you are always right! And consequently come across variously as presumptions, opinionated, officious and bombastic....your insistence that you are always right, and anyone with a different opinion or doesn’t agree with you lacks your intelligence/perception and thus is either thick or just plain wrong, serves to rub those who disagree with you up the wrong way!.........

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

This is actually water off a ducks back for me these days. I am totally cool with being in the minority from a PW perspective, to the point that if some agreed with me I'd be pretty certain I was wrong. 🙂 

Completely agree 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

 

 

This is actually water off a ducks back for me these days. I am totally cool with being in the minority from a PW perspective, to the point that if some agreed with me I'd be pretty certain I was wrong. 🙂 

Strangely enough, I wholeheartedly agree with you. 🙂

Its just a game, infuriating as that is, and they play hard and fast with the lives of all of us, but that’s what it is. 
If anyone can point me in the direction of any politician or their senior aides, from any chapter, whom hasn’t lied or been deceitful in order to gain what they want, then I’d be very interested in reading about them. Or equally, if anyone can name me a leading political figure who has left their job poorer than when they started, or dwindled away to live in obscure poverty, then I’d be interested to hear of them also. 
That doesn’t make anybody it right however, nor acceptable, but that’s the way it is.
There are many whom I despise from all sides of the political spectrum, and there are also many I would tar with a brush long before I got round to our PM. 
I still think Boris has what it takes to deliver on all fronts,  and will be very disappointed if he fails, but he’s been PM for less than a year in what are unprecedented times. Time will tell. 

[lancer425]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Cummings: Because it's not a legal matter. It's a moral one. Cummings is so arrogant he wouldn't even concede that he held any regret over his actions. Has he ever admitted to being wrong about anything?

Johnson: When he chose not to diffuse the situation by admitting that Cummings did wrong, apologising on his behalf and urging the country to move on. That's all that was needed most likely.

This is actually water off a ducks back for me these days. I am totally cool with being in the minority from a PW perspective, to the point that if some agreed with me I'd be pretty certain I was wrong. 🙂 

Cummings did nothing illegal or immoral, so why did Johnson need to do anything more than he did.

I was expecting some insight into an otherwise unseen unheard about aspect none of us knew about. But no we got Cummings did no wrong and johnson did not need to do anything.

This really is expecting something out of nothing  which is not going to happen and why should it. Strange is what you are. No ofense just saying.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

It's also a practical one. What's happening now is that when it comes to any kind of isolation instructions government spokespeople are having to obfuscate and hedge so as not to imply that Cummings was wrong. Also, every man and his dog now has the 'Cummings defence' when they don't want to comply with Covid instructions. And it's going to cost people's lives.

Oh give over with the insincere melodramatics, please! The advice was never set in stone and open to interpretation any which way you could. Even the police didn’t even know what was going on half the time, hence the over reactions and all manner of confusion. 
Some people seem to be losing all control of rational thought! 

[lancer425]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

It's also a practical one. What's happening now is that when it comes to any kind of isolation instructions government spokespeople are having to obfuscate and hedge so as not to imply that Cummings was wrong. Also, every man and his dog now has the 'Cummings defence' when they don't want to comply with Covid instructions. And it's going to cost people's lives.

If we are given advice again to lock down as before, people will comply as they did last time. Your everyman & his dog routene was just as relivent then as it is now or in the future, we had people going rouge to whitby chip shop 100 mile motorcycle rides for fish and chips . Nothing changed for some. But most did as expected obeyed guidance including cummings. And nothing will change if asked we as a whole will comply.

[Gordon R]

Cummings will stay until Brexit is done and Boris too. The two are inextricably linked to Brexit and if the going gets too rough, Boris can dump Cummings and the Tories can then dump Boris.The Tories have many years to recover from this, assisted in no small measure by the completely useless Labour opposition, led by Starmer, who has not been the same since his charisma by-pass operation.. 

Sturgeon didn't want to dump her  Chief Medical Officer, despite her receiving Police warnings. Then she caved in and looked stupid. Whilst I believe that Cummings has been naive / arrogant / stupid - take your pick - if Boris had dumped him, he would have been accused of making a scapegoat of him. If he keeps him, some hint that Cummings has untold powers and secrets. Whatever your view, Boris has not taken the quick and easy option of firing him. It might just be that he is loyal to someone who he believes can serve the country, at this particular time.

Forget opinion polls, they mean nothing at this stage of the Tories term in office. In a few years time, we will be out of the EU, a vaccine will have been found for Covid-19 and unless Labour get their act together, the Tories will be nailed on for another win.

 

[Raja Clavata]

29 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

This really is expecting something out of nothing  which is not going to happen and why should it. Strange is what you are. No ofense just saying.

Like I said, if you represent normal I'm happy to be considered abnormal, strange or whatever. No offence taken.

18 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Cummings will stay until Brexit is done and Boris too. The two are inextricably linked to Brexit and if the going gets too rough, Boris can dump Cummings and the Tories can then dump Boris.The Tories have many years to recover from this, assisted in no small measure by the completely useless Labour opposition, led by Starmer, who has not been the same since his charisma by-pass operation.. 

Sturgeon didn't want to dump her  Chief Medical Officer, despite her receiving Police warnings. Then she caved in and looked stupid. Whilst I believe that Cummings has been naive / arrogant / stupid - take your pick - if Boris had dumped him, he would have been accused of making a scapegoat of him. If he keeps him, some hint that Cummings has untold powers and secrets. Whatever your view, Boris has not taken the quick and easy option of firing him. It might just be that he is loyal to someone who he believes can serve the country, at this particular time.

Forget opinion polls, they mean nothing at this stage of the Tories term in office. In a few years time, we will be out of the EU, a vaccine will have been found for Covid-19 and unless Labour get their act together, the Tories will be nailed on for another win.

 

I'd say that's a fair assessment. I still suspect Cummings will be gone soon in a way that ensures neither he nor Boris lose face.

[Raja Clavata]

40 minutes ago, Scully said:

Its just a game, infuriating as that is, and they play hard and fast with the lives of all of us, but that’s what it is. 
If anyone can point me in the direction of any politician or their senior aides, from any chapter, whom hasn’t lied or been deceitful in order to gain what they want, then I’d be very interested in reading about them. Or equally, if anyone can name me a leading political figure who has left their job poorer than when they started, or dwindled away to live in obscure poverty, then I’d be interested to hear of them also. 
That doesn’t make anybody it right however, nor acceptable, but that’s the way it is.
There are many whom I despise from all sides of the political spectrum, and there are also many I would tar with a brush long before I got round to our PM.  

My experience is pretty much the same in Corporate life, I see many parallels in my frustrations with government as I do with top level players in the board room. In both cases you are swimming with sharks... 

[Raja Clavata]

2 hours ago, clangerman said:

raja unlike some you obviously were not taken for a spoon fed half wit by either dumnings or doris so at least your comments can be taken as truthful not something i will be doing with those who can’t admit a small lie 

I must admit to telling a fib earlier 😂

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

But you and Raja Clavata, believe you are always right! And consequently come across variously as presumptions, opinionated, officious and bombastic....your insistence that you are always right, and anyone with a different opinion or doesn’t agree with you lacks your intelligence/perception and thus is either thick or just plain wrong, serves to rub those who disagree with you up the wrong way!.........

Just to clarify, do you ever put across an opinion in open fora believing you are wrong?

You must have missed my conceding I was wrong about Brexit in the GE outcome and getting behind government to deliver on the commitment to / mandate from the UK public.

It's this kind of selective amnesia and limited scope of reasoning that often leads to frustration and, sorry, but from my perspective you are one of the main culprits (despite your claims of a dazzling career on the court / employment tribunal circuit, which I wholeheartedly take at face value).

[TIGHTCHOKE]

And making his way towards the top of Jdogs list!

[panoma1]

34 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Just to clarify, do you ever put across an opinion in open fora believing you are wrong?

You must have missed my conceding I was wrong about Brexit in the GE outcome and getting behind government to deliver on the commitment to / mandate from the UK public.

It's this kind of selective amnesia and limited scope of reasoning that often leads to frustration and, sorry, but from my perspective you are one of the main culprits (despite your claims of a dazzling career on the court / employment tribunal circuit, which I wholeheartedly take at face value).

Probably not because if I’m convinced I am wrong, I will bow out of the debate!........ Accepting the fact one was wrong, after being convinced one is wrong, is different from one having to accept one is wrong after being proven wrong!....my perspective of you is you never concede to the former, and only reluctantly and grudgingly the latter!

As to my “dazzling career on the court/employment tribunal circuit” (your words) perhaps you would enlighten everyone (with examples) as to the legal experience you possess, that would add substance to your boast that you could systematically take me apart in a courtroom?

[REDINGTON]

I would just love to get some of you mofos in a room together,,, I suspect it would be entertaining or possibly very quiet.

I bet a couple of you would argue with a woman on how to use a tampon.

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, panoma1 said:

Probably not because if I’m convinced I am wrong, I will bow out of the debate!........ Accepting the fact one was wrong, after being convinced one is wrong, is different from one having to accept one is wrong after being proven wrong!....my perspective of you is you never concede to the former, and only reluctantly and grudgingly the latter!

As to my “dazzling career on the court/employment tribunal circuit” (your words) perhaps you would enlighten everyone (with examples) as to the legal experience you possess, that would add substance to your boast that you could systematically take me apart in a courtroom?

You're entitled to your opinion just as much as anyone else, you don't know me so your only way of judging me is based on what I post here and of course this is reciprocated in my perspective of you.

I was using a court room scenario as a metaphor based on my perspective of your postings on this forum that you have limited reasoning skills and appear to get a bit lost when it boils down to relatively simple matters or logic and rhetoric. These are just my perceptions but on topics related to current affairs you appear to be one of those posters who contributes very little but tends to jump in with both feet to engage in a group kicking. I find that particularly sad and pathetic, frankly, but have come to expect and accept little else from you and your ilk. My main point was, it'd never get to a real court because your brief would know he's beaten before you start.

Now, if you want to have a proper ding dong we can take it to PM so as to avoid everyone else being bored by all this. I will stop here as I'm in danger of breaching my own rule of never stating something in open forum that I wouldn't be prepared to say to someone's face. Not that I'd be afraid to say i,t but it'd probably get me banned.

[clangerman]

think we need to remember what people post and what they really believe are two different things nobody is actually going to admit doris is a clown openly this is the tory social club after all 

[REDINGTON]

wheres the popcorn emoji when ya need one. 

[panoma1]

19 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

You're entitled to your opinion just as much as anyone else, you don't know me so your only way of judging me is based on what I post here and of course this is reciprocated in my perspective of you.

I was using a court room scenario as a metaphor based on my perspective of your postings on this forum that you have limited reasoning skills and appear to get a bit lost when it boils down to relatively simple matters or logic and rhetoric. These are just my perceptions but on topics related to current affairs you appear to be one of those posters who contributes very little but tends to jump in with both feet to engage in a group kicking. I find that particularly sad and pathetic, frankly, but have come to expect and accept little else from you and your ilk. My main point was, it'd never get to a real court because your brief would know he's beaten before you start.

Now, if you want to have a proper ding dong we can take it to PM so as to avoid everyone else being bored by all this. I will stop here as I'm in danger of breaching my own rule of never stating something in open forum that I wouldn't be prepared to say to someone's face. Not that I'd be afraid to say i,t but it'd probably get me banned.

As you have failed to raise to my challenge, I can only assume you have no experience to back up your threats then? 😆 it appears to me your all talk with nowt to back it up.

Probably best you’ve decided to “stop here”..........as I’ve obviously hit a raw nerve or three! 😂 and you are, true to type reacting badly to it!

[Zapp]

Enough squabbling please, take it to PMs or ignore one another.

[panoma1]

3 minutes ago, Zapp said:

Enough squabbling please, take it to PMs or ignore one another.

No problem Zapp I’m done with it! 

[Retsdon]

5 hours ago, panoma1 said:

But you and Raja Clavata, believe you are always right!

No always right. I was wrong about that Beesley.....

[islandgun]

 How boring would it be if we all agreed !