BASC to cease legal expenses cover wef 31 July 2020

[Gordon R]

Has the BASC advocate actually sent anything of substance to Scully? Yes or no.

[Mickeydredd]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

Yeah, but what is the point of the question?

I'm a member of a discussion forum engaging in a discussion.  Do you question the motive behind every post on PW?

I suppose the angle I'm coming from is that a number of BASC members and non-BASC members appear to be looking at this as if BASC has sold BASC members down the river and effectively committed a financial crime worthy of censure by the FCA by ending a benefit that was introduced at no extra cost and which they did not have available until a few short years ago.  I'm just trying to appreciate how they managed without this benefit prior to 2014.

Does that provide illumination for you?

Edited July 12, 2020 by Mickeydredd

[oowee]

1 minute ago, Mickeydredd said:

I'm a member of a discussion forum engaging in a discussion.  Do you question the motive behind every post on PW?

I suppose the angle I'm coming from is that a number of BASC members and non-BASC members appear to be looking at this as if BASC has sold BASC members down the river and practically committed a financial crime worthy of censure by the FCA by ending a benefit that was introduced at no extra cost and which they did not have available until a few short years ago.  I'm just trying to appreciate how they managed without this benefit prior to 2014.

Does that provide illumination for you?

 

[holloway]

Basc have there faults but i see no facts in the last 11 pages that point to any other organisation doing a better job ,if there are can someone post the details (not insurance stuff please )

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Has the BASC advocate actually sent anything of substance to Scully? Yes or no.

I would imagine not as he's now starting to lose it. You can always tell when out from among all the rhetoric, metaphors mixed and otherwise comes the BASC Bashers bit. Well, not this time. I'm sure he didn't think that we older bashers were going to let him have a poke at WAGBI and all of the sterling work by John Anderton over several decades and get away with it. I would imagine the boy is too young to remember what WAGBI achieved through the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. Comparing the achievements from back then with now when it is difficult to think of anything having any depth of meaning currently is not only pointess - it's impossible. Talk about chalk and cheese.

Take but just one prime example. Just read some of the posts on PW. Can anyone name any sporting courses provided by BASC which last more than two days or a weekend. Then having done so, list all courses where those working on the courses - but excluding any BASC permanent staff - are paid anything more than expenses. Since the one main flagship course - which was conceived under the WAGBI banner but did actually come to fruition just after the advent of BASC - there has been nothing comparible inspite of the more complex nature of various classes of legislation which the above mentioned posts can often reveal that the BASC education element is even more essential than it ever  was but remains sadly lacking. We've had two right howlers over the passed couple of days. Should BASC decide that there is nothing in depth required then obviously those members of staff who read the PW posts aren't really paying attention.

Give me WAGBI from back then and I'd have never have left what had become a largely defunct BASC.

[Dave-G]

3 hours ago, Mickeydredd said:

The particular insurance that has been withdrawn only relates to challenges to Police forces regarding FAC/SGC though, it has nothing to do with the escalation of anti-shooting sentiment.

I wasn't making a point, I was asking a question.  🤪🤪🤪

Some licencing office staff, police chiefs etc have an anti shooting sentiment and may let it affect a decision they can get away with - which is why that part of the package was so important to us. I remember years ago having an FAC was a right unless there is a valid reason to deny it. A few years later some top Police chief down London way pontificated that shooting was a privilege. Slippery slopes to nibble away the appeal of shooting and impede it are happening all the time.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Dave-G

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, Mickeydredd said:

I'm a member of a discussion forum engaging in a discussion.  Do you question the motive behind every post on PW?

I suppose the angle I'm coming from is that a number of BASC members and non-BASC members appear to be looking at this as if BASC has sold BASC members down the river and effectively committed a financial crime worthy of censure by the FCA by ending a benefit that was introduced at no extra cost and which they did not have available until a few short years ago.  I'm just trying to appreciate how they managed without this benefit prior to 2014.

Does that provide illumination for you?

Right, so because it wasn't available under BASC a 'few short years ago' no one needs it now. I think there are a few who would disagree, you know the 1 in 2000 (or whatever the numbers are) who has their certs because of the cover.

Maybe like BASC you just don't care as long as you are alright.

What did people do before all insurance???

Obviously no one needs insurance because many years ago it wasn't available!

Oh and just to add, as a member of a discussion forum, I was asking a question, you know joining in on the discussion!

Edited July 12, 2020 by Newbie to this

[lancer425]

1 hour ago, Mickeydredd said:

I'm a member of a discussion forum engaging in a discussion.  Do you question the motive behind every post on PW?

I suppose the angle I'm coming from is that a number of BASC members and non-BASC members appear to be looking at this as if BASC has sold BASC members down the river and effectively committed a financial crime worthy of censure by the FCA by ending a benefit that was introduced at no extra cost and which they did not have available until a few short years ago.  I'm just trying to appreciate how they managed without this benefit prior to 2014.

Does that provide illumination for you?

Sounds reasonable to me.

[Mickeydredd]

54 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Right, so because it wasn't available under BASC a 'few short years ago' no one needs it now. I think there are a few who would disagree, you know the 1 in 2000 (or whatever the numbers are) who has their certs because of the cover.

Maybe like BASC you just don't care as long as you are alright.

What did people do before all insurance???

Obviously no one needs insurance because many years ago it wasn't available!

Oh and just to add, as a member of a discussion forum, I was asking a question, you know joining in on the discussion!

Please highlight where I said the insurance was no longer needed.

how do you assume I am alright?  I don't have the insurance cover.

Irrelevant

Not at all, insurance is very important

You asked a question of a question, not sure that is engaging in discussion.  No big deal though, it's just the t'internet 👍

[lancer425]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

I would imagine not as he's now starting to lose it. You can always tell when out from among all the rhetoric, metaphors mixed and otherwise comes the BASC Bashers bit. Well, not this time. I'm sure he didn't think that we older bashers were going to let him have a poke at WAGBI and all of the sterling work by John Anderton over several decades and get away with it. I would imagine the boy is too young to remember what WAGBI achieved through the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. Comparing the achievements from back then with now when it is difficult to think of anything having any depth of meaning currently is not only pointess - it's impossible. Talk about chalk and cheese.

Take but just one prime example. Just read some of the posts on PW. Can anyone name any sporting courses provided by BASC which last more than two days or a weekend. Then having done so, list all courses where those working on the courses - but excluding any BASC permanent staff - are paid anything more than expenses. Since the one main flagship course - which was conceived under the WAGBI banner but did actually come to fruition just after the advent of BASC - there has been nothing comparible inspite of the more complex nature of various classes of legislation which the above mentioned posts can often reveal that the BASC education element is even more essential than it ever  was but remains sadly lacking. We've had two right howlers over the passed couple of days. Should BASC decide that there is nothing in depth required then obviously those members of staff who read the PW posts aren't really paying attention.

Give me WAGBI from back then and I'd have never have left what had become a largely defunct BASC.

I have  been shooting since 11 "1970" and going with my father and grandfather wildfowling since i was in infants school . I was in WAGBI, and i am loosing nothing.

  WAGBI was nothing compared to what BASC has evolved into. It cover a broader range of shooting sports and offers more support and advice than WAGBI ever could have.

the times we live in now are very different to anything WAGBI ever could or would have ever envisaged.  LOVE BASC  or LOATHE it its our only truly representative shooting organisation currently.

 if you know of another then please tell us we would love to know.

[Mickeydredd]

1 hour ago, Dave-G said:

Some licencing office staff, police chiefs etc have an anti shooting sentiment and may let it affect a decision they can get away with - which is why that part of the package was so important to us. I remember years ago having an FAC was a right unless there is a valid reason to deny it. A few years later some top Police chief down London way pontificated that shooting was a privilege. Slippery slopes to nibble away the appeal of shooting and impede it are happening all the time.

I don't disagree Dave, I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that Matone was referring to the wider anti abrasiveness. 

[clangerman]

3 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

.  LOVE BASC  or LOATHE it its our only truly representative shooting organisation currently.

basc is like buying a rottweiler opening the box and finding a three legged toothless yorkie who needs representation when your under attack offering tea and biscuits to someone hitting you with a brick is no good 

[lancer425]

3 minutes ago, clangerman said:

basc is like buying a rottweiler opening the box and finding a three legged toothless yorkie who needs representation when your under attack offering tea and biscuits to someone hitting you with a brick is no good 

What would you have BASC do ? And on what issue.?

  Still waiting for a crime?

This very thread is about the cessation of legal expenses from the end of the month. an explanation was given by BASC. if you dont like it write to them tell them get involved.   Other than that we just have the typical witch hunt so beloved of PW of late .

Was it 21 pages on the lead shot suggestion by BASC, many including you venting about basc, Basc getting slated for not asking the cartridge companies when they claimed to have. the cartridge companies joint statement claimed they could not produce bio wad options in the time scale. yet here we are just months latter with available options. And YET it was apparently going to take YEARS. Who lied there then?

[Gordon R]

lancer425 - have you provided Scully with what you referred to. Yes or no?

Edited July 12, 2020 by Gordon R

[JKD]

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Have you not read the past 11 pages? 

You've either lost plot, or just don't know what you're talking about 😂

Give it up, yours wasting your time here. 

 

4 hours ago, Rewulf said:

YOU'RE! 

Jesus christ 🤣

Just pointing out a small error 🙄

[clangerman]

2 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

What would you have BASC do ? And on what issue.?

  Still waiting for a crime?

This very thread is about the cessation of legal expenses from the end of the month. an explanation was given by BASC. if you dont like it write to them tell them get involved.   Other than that we just have the typical witch hunt so beloved of PW of late .

Was it 21 pages on the lead shot suggestion by BASC, many including you venting about basc, Basc getting slated for not asking the cartridge companies when they claimed to have. the cartridge companies joint statement claimed they could not produce bio wad options in the time scale. yet here we are just months latter with available options. And YET it was apparently going to take YEARS. Who lied there then?

save any argument you tell me what basc can do to any of the opposition and i will sign back up which i won’t have to because they have no teeth whatsoever and that goes for all the organisations  

[lancer425]

Just now, Gordon R said:

lancer425 - have you provided Scully with what you referred to. Yes or no?

Only scully and me know that nothing to do with you that is why i took it to PMs. I dont want to air it on open forum thank you i consider it sensitive and potential damaging to our sport, and exactly why i replied to scully . i do trust his integrity in all matters. Now please could you stop with this childish poking for what i said nothing to see here move on and be respectful of others.

[lancer425]

3 minutes ago, clangerman said:

save any argument you tell me what basc can do to any of the opposition and i will sign back up which i won’t have to because they have no teeth whatsoever and that goes for all the organisations  

They can not do anything to any opposition, they can look at the legality of any threats in house, and have knowledgable staff who represent us in many ways, and if challenges are presented to us are in a good position to know what to do and if and when to act. Their web site explains what they offer, and no other organisation ever in the uk has had so much in place to represent such a broad range of shooters in the uk to date.

[matone]

5 hours ago, Mickeydredd said:

The particular insurance that has been withdrawn only relates to challenges to Police forces regarding FAC/SGC though, it has nothing to do with the escalation of anti-shooting sentiment.

I wasn't making a point, I was asking a question.  🤪🤪🤪

So you dont realise that given  the aggresive nature and possibly behaviour of our opponents that anyone of us could be the victim of circumstances which could lead to problems with the Police and certification? 

[clangerman]

1 minute ago, lancer425 said:

They can not do anything to any opposition, they can look at the legality of any threats in house, and have knowledgable staff who represent us in many ways, and if challenges are presented to us are in a good position to know what to do and if and when to act. Their web site explains what they offer, and no other organisation ever in the uk has had so much in place to represent such a broad range of shooters in the uk to date.

there you go then none of the organisations can do anything to the opposition and that’s why we won’t survive 

[Old farrier]

8 minutes ago, clangerman said:

there you go then none of the organisations can do anything to the opposition and that’s why we won’t survive 

And you can offer them a solution? 
 

[lancer425]

8 minutes ago, clangerman said:

there you go then none of the organisations can do anything to the opposition and that’s why we won’t survive 

We will be here for some time yey, be positive.

12 minutes ago, matone said:

So you dont realise that given  the aggresive nature and possibly behaviour of our opponents that anyone of us could be the victim of circumstances which could lead to problems with the Police and certification? 

I dont think anyone can not see the advantages of leaving it in place, but 1 in 1000 need it and only 1 in 2000 are taken up. Its the age old question of  value for money.

[Gordon R]

Quote

 

we need to draw a line in the sand and move on, 

nothing ever to be gained by digging over the past, 

we all got skeletons in cupboards, 

Stop picking old scabs leave them heal or they will scar believe me. 

we dont have another horse to ride, and forget any promised foals, the mare is not even in foal yet

It is a fact patience is a virtue.

The whole world is watching to see your next move.

 just verbal tennis on threads 

nothing to see here move on

 

I asked for facts and have to admit defeat.

lancer 425 has provided us with all the facts - not a cliche in sight.

[lancer425]

10 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I asked for facts and have to admit defeat.

lancer 425 has provided us with all the facts - not a cliche in sight.

Thanks Gordon for letting me live in your head .

[Gordon R]

You are welcome. When I see posts that make a lot of unsupported points they interest me. My concern with your posts is your blind devotion to BASC without any facts to support it - only those which you will not share. It might well be that they could do harm in the wrong hands, but you have said that they are easy to work out. That led me to the conclusion that you were trying to appear to be "in the know".  You dismiss requests for facts with rather infantile cliches, which leads me to further doubt what you say. 

I will leave it there as you cannot or will not back up what you say. I expect some further cliches or patronising remark to satisfy your ego.