Terry2016 Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 On 23/07/2020 at 20:04, Old farrier said: I’m understanding the problem however I’m prepared to go for the day and try what they have on offer form a opinion and hopefully find something to adapt to 2.1/2 2.5" boidegradble are now available. 👍 On 23/07/2020 at 21:27, London Best said: We are in the U.K. The standard British game gun is 2 1/2 inch chamber, ( I don’t care what you O/U boys say), why is everyone concentrating on the 2 3/4 inch chambers used by the clay pigeon boys in their foreign made guns? 2.5" now available so good news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strimmer_13 Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 Whilst that is a step in the right direction (for pro steel) 740 bar is a little on the high side. On this very forum with a little Google search, lyvale stated that for a 2 1/2 cart they were not legally allowed to sell anything that exceeds 700 bar as the proof is at 850bar on a 2 1/2 chamber? Maybe basc could offer a voucher for a free box for its members to try these super steel carts instead of chucking them at clays where it's of no relevance what's so ever and let the shooters in their own environment and circumstances make their minds up. Just a thought. It would for once put basc in good stead with its members seeing as quite a few are truly ****** off with them lately over this, and eley being in bed with them, get to be the first on the market, and set to either make a fortune from potential sells earlier than its competitors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 33 minutes ago, Terry2016 said: 2.5" boidegradble are now available. 👍 2.5" now available so good news That’s a start thanks for posting now it needs to be affordable and equivalent I shall reserve judgment until I have managed to source and try some im assuming that they are not only good for 2.1/2 guns of standard proof but for all chokes hopefully they will do a lighter load as I feel 30 grams of steel is a tad overkill for partridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Old farrier said: That’s a start thanks for posting now it needs to be affordable and equivalent I shall reserve judgment until I have managed to source and try some im assuming that they are not only good for 2.1/2 guns of standard proof but for all chokes hopefully they will do a lighter load as I feel 30 grams of steel is a tad overkill for partridge What also needs checking is that they are "nitro proofed to standard steel pressure of 740 bar" - I'm not sure how that sits with the older proof for 2 1/2" of 1 1/8 oz max load? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 11 minutes ago, strimmer_13 said: Whilst that is a step in the right direction (for pro steel) 740 bar is a little on the high side. On this very forum with a little Google search, lyvale stated that for a 2 1/2 cart they were not legally allowed to sell anything that exceeds 700 bar as the proof is at 850bar on a 2 1/2 chamber? Maybe basc could offer a voucher for a free box for its members to try these super steel carts instead of chucking them at clays where it's of no relevance what's so ever and let the shooters in their own environment and circumstances make their minds up. Just a thought. It would for once put basc in good stead with its members seeing as quite a few are truly ****** off with them lately over this, and eley being in bed with them, get to be the first on the market, and set to either make a fortune from potential sells earlier than its competitors And when I said follow the money at the start of the shambolic saga I was slated now it’s all starting to come to the surface good idea the voucher for the cartridges I mean we the members paid for a fair amount of free pheasant shooting for next to useless members of parliament to have a jolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strimmer_13 Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Old farrier said: And when I said follow the money at the start of the shambolic saga I was slated now it’s all starting to come to the surface good idea the voucher for the cartridges I mean we the members paid for a fair amount of free pheasant shooting for next to useless members of parliament to have a jolly What would the realistic cost be to both parties? £3-4?. Only to basc members as well. Seeing as they've just saved on the legal cover.... Time to give something back. And like all promotions, not everybody would use the voucher. It would be cheap advertising. Plus they wouldn't have to have their day out trials, which must cost a fair bit with rents of grounds, staff, insurance ect ect Edited July 26, 2020 by strimmer_13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, strimmer_13 said: What would the realistic cost be to both parties? £3-4?. Only to basc members as well. Seeing as they've just saved on the legal cover.... Time to give something back. And like all promotions, not everybody would use the voucher. It would be cheap advertising. Very cheap advertising and a bit more goodwill a positive step forward time to start building bridges with the members Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 On 23/07/2020 at 15:50, 243deer said: Quote - All those attending should be experienced shots and are required to bring their own 12 gauge shotgun I use a .410 for ratting most of the time with 2 inch cartridges - indoors in barns - please let me know when a suitable day has been arranged to try sustainable ammunition in this combination - along with the undoubtedly expensive PPE I would have to wear to avoid the ricochets - thanks in advance Connor Brilliant...... are we sure the BASC has not been infiltrated by the same scientist organising the Corvid situation ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 All that information and they do not state the velocity? Low may be to keep the pressure low, large light pellets slowing quickly once fired? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted July 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 On 23/07/2020 at 15:53, Old farrier said: Could you please let me know when you’re having one in Hampshire please On 23/07/2020 at 21:42, Old farrier said: We have to start somewhere If the first cartridge kicks like a mule that’s a box I haven’t bough I think from the breaks I shall be able to see if they are patterning well enough to be useful (I shoot a lot of clays) (( now I’ve posted that they probably won’t have me on the day )) if the targets are pathetically close I won’t be shooting at them I shall expect them to simulate sporting game birds anyway we shall see I’ve yet to hear from Connor when there’s going to be a day down south On 24/07/2020 at 09:54, Old farrier said: I’ll have a go if you could let me know when you holding on in the south the link only appears to take bookings for the Wales day On 24/07/2020 at 11:00, Conor O'Gorman said: I would imagine there will be opportunities ahead in the south. I have asked a colleague at BASC and I will post updates as more events are published. On 24/07/2020 at 13:25, Old farrier said: Imagine?? I would sincerely hope there’s something planned for the south please keep me informed On 24/07/2020 at 13:39, Conor O'Gorman said: Of course - please email me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk and I will ensure you are directly informed. On 26/07/2020 at 19:35, Old farrier said: And when I said follow the money at the start of the shambolic saga I was slated now it’s all starting to come to the surface good idea the voucher for the cartridges I mean we the members paid for a fair amount of free pheasant shooting for next to useless members of parliament to have a jolly Old Farrier, you continue to comment on this thread and you have not yet emailed me so that I can ensure you are directly informed of future events in Hampshire. I look forward to hearing from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 11 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said: Old Farrier, you continue to comment on this thread and you have not yet emailed me so that I can ensure you are directly informed of future events in Hampshire. I look forward to hearing from you. And I shall continue to post I ask for no preferential treatment and expect as a paid up member of BASC to be informed of the event in the future in the normal manner Not on social media unlike the release of the proposed lead shot ban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 Conor , Do you think it is a good idea to offer a voucher or free box of cartridges to BASC members ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted July 28, 2020 Report Share Posted July 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Salopian said: Conor , Do you think it is a good idea to offer a voucher or free box of cartridges to BASC members ? Fraught with logistical and legal difficulties - Have you ever seen any manufacturer handing out samples at shows? I can see why BASC is pursuing the route of trial days at clay grounds, which are a controlled environment. I don't think anybody is seriously claiming that a clay will give you any indication of the, lets call it 'killing power' of steel versus lead, either. On 26/07/2020 at 18:51, Terry2016 said: The standard British game gun is 2 1/2 inch chamber, ( I don’t care what you O/U boys say), why is everyone concentrating on the 2 3/4 inch chambers used by the clay pigeon boys in their foreign made guns? I listened to the an episode of the Yorkshire Gent Podcast where an industry insider was confident that multiple manufacturers working on it. Obviously, that 'inside information' is worth what you paid for it, but I choose to believe it, as although the market for 2.5" is tiny by comparison, crack the 2.5" problem and you should have benefits for 2.75" too... 4 hours ago, Old farrier said: I ask for no preferential treatment and expect as a paid up member of BASC to be informed of the event in the future in the normal manner I'm curious, what do you mean by normal manner? I get the weekly email from BASC, and it was also in the magazine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted July 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 The following article may be of interest. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/30/one-in-three-children-dangerous-levels-lead-in-blood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 Not many kids recycling batteries in this country not very good comparison between here and Indonesia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 On 28/07/2020 at 13:14, udderlyoffroad said: Fraught with logistical and legal difficulties - Have you ever seen any manufacturer handing out samples at shows? I can see why BASC is pursuing the route of trial days at clay grounds, which are a controlled environment. I don't think anybody is seriously claiming that a clay will give you any indication of the, lets call it 'killing power' of steel versus lead, either. I listened to the an episode of the Yorkshire Gent Podcast where an industry insider was confident that multiple manufacturers working on it. Obviously, that 'inside information' is worth what you paid for it, but I choose to believe it, as although the market for 2.5" is tiny by comparison, crack the 2.5" problem and you should have benefits for 2.75" too... I'm curious, what do you mean by normal manner? I get the weekly email from BASC, and it was also in the magazine When the day for Hampshire is advertised in the magazine or a email comes through from Basc would be the normal manner Thereby giving everyone the same chance to attend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted July 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 14 minutes ago, Old farrier said: Not many kids recycling batteries in this country not very good comparison between here and Indonesia How about this one then? https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13280-019-01194-x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: How about this one then? https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13280-019-01194-x It’s Europe your a dr do your own testing in this country show new data from new research all the stuff spouted is not new mostly historical figures from dodgey research get some credible science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted July 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 There have been at least 44 research papers published on the impact of lead ammunition on human health since the Lead Ammunition Group submitted its report to Defra in 2015. These are listed here: http://www.leadammunitiongroup.org.uk/information/#toggle-id-4 In the 2015 LAG report are the lists of all the previous research papers across various themes. http://www.leadammunitiongroup.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/LAG-Report-June-2015-without-Appendices.pdf http://www.leadammunitiongroup.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/LAG-Report-June-2015-Appendices-without-Appendix-6.pdf http://www.leadammunitiongroup.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/LAG-Report-June-2015-RISK-MITIGATION-REGISTER-Appendix-6.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 and the most important report is everybody from my great grand parents onwards practically lived on game and NONE of them died from lead poisoning if people think chanting toxic toxic non stop is going to fool anyone it’s not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Rabbit Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 27 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: There have been at least 44 research papers published on the impact of lead ammunition on human health since the Lead Ammunition Group submitted its report to Defra in 2015. These are listed here: http://www.leadammunitiongroup.org.uk/information/#toggle-id-4 In the 2015 LAG report are the lists of all the previous research papers across various themes. http://www.leadammunitiongroup.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/LAG-Report-June-2015-without-Appendices.pdf http://www.leadammunitiongroup.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/LAG-Report-June-2015-Appendices-without-Appendix-6.pdf http://www.leadammunitiongroup.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/LAG-Report-June-2015-RISK-MITIGATION-REGISTER-Appendix-6.pdf Are BASC now officially anti lead? What happened to no new evidence/no change? WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 I am sorry Connor, BUT people are still at MORE risk from lead piping than lead shot. Lead shot may affect a minority of people, BUT, lead piping affects more people that the Utility Companies will EVER admit to . Even people who believe they are safe with their plastic pipes, are blatantly unaware that most of that plastic is joined to the main supply via lead pipes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpredder Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 56 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said: There have been at least 44 research papers published on the impact of lead ammunition on human health since the Lead Ammunition Group submitted its report to Defra in 2015. Conor, I assume that BASC staff will have studied all the relevant research papers. Can you name any document in which there is a record of an ACTUAL person suffering ACTUAL harm from eating game killed using lead ammunition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 104 pages from 2010 mostly the same stuff re presented in 2015 another 104 pages 322 pages mostly American research with a emphasise on deer mostly estimation and guess work no science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry2016 Posted August 1, 2020 Report Share Posted August 1, 2020 21 hours ago, McSpredder said: Conor, I assume that BASC staff will have studied all the relevant research papers. Can you name any document in which there is a record of an ACTUAL person suffering ACTUAL harm from eating game killed using lead ammunition? This is not only about human health. although there are many papers setting out how damaging lead is to humans. This is about wildlife. there are many papers setting out how bad lead is to wildlife. This is about the perception of shooting. many people do not want anything shot with lead, this is also now starting to be the case with Venison. We need to move with the times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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