Location/date of covid deaths

[AVB]

8 hours ago, Mice! said:

Schools only shut the week before xmas, tier 4 only came in on the 20th, tier 3 in many places was the 16th,  shops and restaurants were open in many places till then.

If you think people didn't mix over xmas then your having a laugh, most won't have but lots will have.

Me and the misses gave blood on new years eve, I went then she did, with the kids in the park while I was in then swap, there was a cafe doing hot drinks, mulled wine and there were people queuing all down the street, they certainly weren't 2m apart.

People travelling home from working away,  then going back again in the new year, then announcing another lockdown after schools had gone back.

It's far from ideal, but people are still mixing then passing it on it's as simple as that.

So a lot of the restrictions have been in place for nearly a month. Now either they are working and cases are beginning to fall (see graph in my previous post) or they aren’t in which case it’s evidence that the restrictions don’t work. At the moment nobody has a scooby on how transmission is happening and they are just playing ‘whack a mole’ trying different things and blaming different people/environments  

Priti Patel said yesterday that 90% of people were following the rules/guidelines. That sounds pretty good to me. You’ll never get 100%.  

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, AVB said:

Now either they are working and cases are beginning to fall (see graph in my previous post) or they aren’t in which case it’s evidence that the restrictions don’t work.

i think it is pretty clear that less 'person to person' contact will reduce infections getting passed on - because;

• The transfer of the virus is believed to be mainly by droplets/aerosolisation.  By this it means virus particles contained in;
• small droplets such as those coughed and sneezed and to some extent breathed out and reduced (as emitter) by mask wearing - these typically don't pass far (hence 2m rule) - though some coughs/sneezes seem to go further if no mask is worn.
• much smaller water vapour particles (the aerosolisation) contained in breath (as in what becomes visible as breath  in cold weather) and passed much more easily indoors and where ventilation is limited.  These small 'vapour' hosts can travel quite far in friendly (i.e. poor ventilation) environments.
• The virus does not spread as an 'airborne' virus outside some form of water/aqueous host particle (so is unlikely to spread far outside) or on the wind.  Outside a protective aqueous host it is short lived.
• Transmission on surfaces (door handles, buttons, handrails etc.) seems possible but doesn't seem to be regarded as a common source of transmissions.  Virus dies away on surfaces within hours/days according to conditions and whether there is a host layer of 'dirt' in which it can lurk.

From this it seems that the biggest risk is 'breathing recently exhaled 'humidity' from someone who is infected and is shedding virus.  To that end, reducing the close contact, especially indoors or in crowds should reduce transmission.

[AVB]

14 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

i think it is pretty clear that less 'person to person' contact will reduce infections getting passed on - because;

• The transfer of the virus is believed to be mainly by droplets/aerosolisation.  By this it means virus particles contained in;
• small droplets such as those coughed and sneezed and to some extent breathed out and reduced (as emitter) by mask wearing - these typically don't pass far (hence 2m rule) - though some coughs/sneezes seem to go further if no mask is worn.
• much smaller water vapour particles (the aerosolisation) contained in breath (as in what becomes visible as breath  in cold weather) and passed much more easily indoors and where ventilation is limited.  These small 'vapour' hosts can travel quite far in friendly (i.e. poor ventilation) environments.
• The virus does not spread as an 'airborne' virus outside some form of water/aqueous host particle (so is unlikely to spread far outside) or on the wind.  Outside a protective aqueous host it is short lived.
• Transmission on surfaces (door handles, buttons, handrails etc.) seems possible but doesn't seem to be regarded as a common source of transmissions.  Virus dies away on surfaces within hours/days according to conditions and whether there is a host layer of 'dirt' in which it can lurk.

From this it seems that the biggest risk is 'breathing recently exhaled 'humidity' from someone who is infected and is shedding virus.  To that end, reducing the close contact, especially indoors or in crowds should reduce transmission.

Shops (most), pubs, restaurants, cinemas, gyms, schools etc all closed, indoor household mixing banned. Therefore on that basis we should see cases tumbling down and all the fuss over how far one can travel for outside exercise is a complete red herring (which it is). 

[clangerman]

3 minutes ago, AVB said:

Shops (most), pubs, restaurants, cinemas, gyms, schools etc all closed, indoor household mixing banned. Therefore on that basis we should see cases tumbling down and all the fuss over how far one can travel for outside exercise is a complete red herring (which it is). 

banning something does not stop the selfish and stupid shooting partners family had it all brothers side of family had it their not laughing now i didn’t mix with them for christmas 

[islandgun]

58 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

 

From this it seems that the biggest risk is 'breathing recently exhaled 'humidity' from someone who is infected and is shedding virus.  To that end, reducing the close contact, especially indoors or in crowds should reduce transmission.

^^ The figures are bad now just how bad would they be if everyone ignored advice and went about their lives as normal. it really isnt that hard to understand 

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, AVB said:

Priti Patel said yesterday that 90% of people were following the rules/guidelines. That sounds pretty good to me. You’ll never get 100%.

It is difficult to know where the correct facts are on that one; I noticed this today;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-55623289

which claims lower compliance. 

My own local Morrisons - compliance last time I visited (a few days ago and very quiet time, very few people in at all) was 100% compliant as far as I could see - but local Facebook group suggests that is not always the case - and many are claiming that lots of people simply claim 'medical' grounds and have been asking the store security (they have had security on the door since March) to be 'tougher' on not allowing non mask wearers in.  It is difficult to see how they can enforce that - though I see that many supermarkets are saying that masks MUST be worn - except ......

1 minute ago, islandgun said:

^^ The figures are bad now just how bad would they be if everyone ignored advice and went about their lives as normal. it really isnt that hard to understand 

Quite.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

2 minutes ago, islandgun said:

^^ The figures are bad now just how bad would they be if everyone ignored advice and went about their lives as normal. it really isnt that hard to understand 

Yes indeed, but unfortunately there still seem to be a lot of people unable to comprehend the risks.

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Yes indeed, but unfortunately there still seem to be a lot of people unable to comprehend the risks.

Unable to - or don't want to?

[AVB]

19 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

It is difficult to know where the correct facts are on that one; I noticed this today;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-55623289

which claims lower compliance. 

My own local Morrisons - compliance last time I visited (a few days ago and very quiet time, very few people in at all) was 100% compliant as far as I could see - but local Facebook group suggests that is not always the case - and many are claiming that lots of people simply claim 'medical' grounds and have been asking the store security (they have had security on the door since March) to be 'tougher' on not allowing non mask wearers in.  It is difficult to see how they can enforce that - though I see that many supermarkets are saying that masks MUST be worn - except ......

Similar experience for me also. Saw a woman without a mask on yesterday but she had, at least, made the effort to wear a ‘sunflower’ medical exemption lanyard. Might be a fake but she had at least made the effort. If you are going to give people the medical exemption ‘get out’ it’s going to be impossible to get 100% compliance. 

 

[strimmer_13]

9 minutes ago, AVB said:

Similar experience for me also. Saw a woman without a mask on yesterday but she had, at least, made the effort to wear a ‘sunflower’ medical exemption lanyard. Might be a fake but she had at least made the effort. If you are going to give people the medical exemption ‘get out’ it’s going to be impossible to get 100% compliance. 

 

Our guy at work bought his for a fiver online. He used it a few times then eventually gave in and wears a mask now. Not that anybody at work gives a **** about even the basics. 

[Mice!]

7 hours ago, AVB said:

Priti Patel said yesterday that 90% of people were following the rules/guidelines. That sounds pretty good to me. You’ll never get 100%.  

I'd say there's not a chance its 90%

6 hours ago, AVB said:

Shops (most), pubs, restaurants, cinemas, gyms, schools etc all closed, indoor household mixing banned. Therefore on that basis we should see cases tumbling down and all the fuss over how far one can travel for outside exercise is a complete red herring (which it is). 

Yes there all shut, but lads in work are still getting their hair cut, people are still mixing then passing the love, many don't have any symptoms,  there mates didn't have any symptoms or get ill so they think balls to it, let's meet up at wottsits house and have a drink.

6 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Unable to - or don't want to?

Don't care is more like it.

[strimmer_13]

6 hours ago, strimmer_13 said:

Our guy at work bought his for a fiver online. He used it a few times then eventually gave in and wears a mask now. Not that anybody at work gives a **** about even the basics. 

And 1s now off getting tested. Great stuff... 

[Jaymo]

I see the way that the numbers are reported changed in the latter part of last year. 
Now seams that the 28 say rule has / was, extended to 60 days where the death certificate mentioned covid.

So, I have a positive test but recover to then have a bout of ‘bacterial’ meningitis or pneumonia and subsequently succumb- doc hasn’t carried out a new test, but puts two and two together from previous covid test and my recent pneumonia and writes it on the death certificate? 

Not denying the numbers are high, but I still wish we would have a breakdown of age groups and those with pre existing conditions too. 
 

This is from the website concerned.

The additional indicators which will be used to calculate daily death figures are:

• the number of deaths in people with COVID-19 that occur within 28 days of a first positive laboratory-confirmed test. This is intended to provide a headline indicator of the immediate impact of recent epidemic activity. Deaths that occur more than 28 days after a positive test will not be included in this count.
• the number of deaths that occur within 60 days of a first positive test. Deaths that occur after 60 days will also be added to this figure if COVID-19 appears on the death certificate. This will provide a more complete measure of the burden of the disease over time.

Using these new measures, the total number of deaths in people with laboratory-confirmed infection is reduced by 5,377  if only deaths within 28-day of a test are included, and by 1,668 if including only deaths within 60 days or at any time with COVID-19 mentioned on the death certificate.

Edited January 13, 2021 by Jaymo

[Mungler]

We had the new variant fly round work just before Chrimbo and 6 mask wearing, hand washing socially distancing people (some of whom worked behind Perspex screens) all got it.

All this moaning about masks and contact, it’s just people manifesting their anxiety in ‘something’. There’s got to be a villain of the piece and someone to blame right?

Anyways, they’re all fine and back at work and the good news is that we now have a sort of herd immunity in the office and only about 2 people remain at the top of the curtains about Covid, the rest have had it, didn’t die and are well over all the panic and nonsense.

[team tractor]

3 hours ago, Mice! said:

I'd say there's not a chance its 90%

Yes there all shut, but lads in work are still getting their hair cut, people are still mixing then passing the love, many don't have any symptoms,  there mates didn't have any symptoms or get ill so they think balls to it, let's meet up at wottsits house and have a drink.

Don't care is more like it.

I’m getting my hair cut 😁. The girlfriend was a hair dresser before a teacher which is handy 😊😎. 

I currently can’t see my youngest 2 kids because the ex is isolating for 10 days . I had it with my other 2 kids too 

[Mice!]

36 minutes ago, team tractor said:

I’m getting my hair cut 😁. The girlfriend was a hair dresser before a teacher which is handy 😊😎. 

I currently can’t see my youngest 2 kids because the ex is isolating for 10 days . I had it with my other 2 kids too 

So long as the kids are ok that's the main thing mate 👍

 

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

We had the new variant fly round work just before Chrimbo and 6 mask wearing, hand washing socially distancing people (some of whom worked behind Perspex screens) all got it.

All this moaning about masks and contact, it’s just people manifesting their anxiety in ‘something’. There’s got to be a villain of the piece and someone to blame right?

Anyways, they’re all fine and back at work and the good news is that we now have a sort of herd immunity in the office and only about 2 people remain at the top of the curtains about Covid, the rest have had it, didn’t die and are well over all the panic and nonsense.

Let's look at it another way, were all the people wearing a new mask every day? Where they wearing them properly? Did they take them off having a brew or dinner?

I very much doubt it,  unless you have worked in an industry where its life threatening like asbestos,  chemical or medical to name a few then masks are a PITA we all know this, all they do is minimize the risk, great for going the shops in a well ventilated area but not great if your in an office environment all day long.

For me the masks stop people spreading who don't know they have it, which is why they should be worn in shops.

I'm glad no one in your office has been really ill obviously, but six people got it, putting their families at risk, and the other two didn't get it. You should probably be asking why 8 of you needed to be in the office at the moment.

 

[Walker570]

11 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

i think it is pretty clear that less 'person to person' contact will reduce infections getting passed on - because;

• The transfer of the virus is believed to be mainly by droplets/aerosolisation.  By this it means virus particles contained in;
• small droplets such as those coughed and sneezed and to some extent breathed out and reduced (as emitter) by mask wearing - these typically don't pass far (hence 2m rule) - though some coughs/sneezes seem to go further if no mask is worn.
• much smaller water vapour particles (the aerosolisation) contained in breath (as in what becomes visible as breath  in cold weather) and passed much more easily indoors and where ventilation is limited.  These small 'vapour' hosts can travel quite far in friendly (i.e. poor ventilation) environments.
• The virus does not spread as an 'airborne' virus outside some form of water/aqueous host particle (so is unlikely to spread far outside) or on the wind.  Outside a protective aqueous host it is short lived.
• Transmission on surfaces (door handles, buttons, handrails etc.) seems possible but doesn't seem to be regarded as a common source of transmissions.  Virus dies away on surfaces within hours/days according to conditions and whether there is a host layer of 'dirt' in which it can lurk.

From this it seems that the biggest risk is 'breathing recently exhaled 'humidity' from someone who is infected and is shedding virus.  To that end, reducing the close contact, especially indoors or in crowds should reduce transmission.

...and we are back to common sense...... the old days when we had a lot of it....  "Sharn't come over this afternoon as I have a sniffly cold and I don't want to pass it on to you".   was a common saying 40-50-60yrs ago but rarely heard today.

[Mungler]

59 minutes ago, Mice! said:

You should probably be asking why 8 of you needed to be in the office at the moment.

At the moment, because those 8 people (and in total about half the office) have now had it and have antibodies 😆

Before new variant we were following all guidelines applicable at the time (and still do) however any sane and right minded person knows the government is making this up as they go along and with little clue.

And the ‘experts’ are little help; clueless as to what makes this virus tick or why some die and others barely notice it. Indeed, more U turns today about masks but hey, if it takes everyone’s mind off it.

We soldier on and do as we’re told. I can’t wait to see what the history books make of all of this.
 

[WalkedUp]

I can report another death. My friend’s business partner. I didn’t know her well at all but still very much dead. On the Wednesday she was unwell but able to  just about talk business. On the Friday she was dead. 

[islandgun]

The daughter of a friend of my wife is a doctor on a covid ward in S Wales, She messaged to say that 40 people died in her ward yesterday of covid

[Mice!]

44 minutes ago, Mungler said:

At the moment, because those 8 people (and in total about half the office) have now had it and have antibodies 😆

And people wonder why it's still spreading. 

So half the office have rolled the dice and been fine, I wonder how the people will feel if just one person was to die from catching covid at work? It sounds to me like there are far to many people working in the office?

I wonder what's been done to stop the other half getting it?

[Mice!]

29 minutes ago, islandgun said:

The daughter of a friend of my wife is a doctor on a covid ward in S Wales, She messaged to say that 40 people died in her ward yesterday of covid

It's no wonder we keep getting told that the NHS is at breaking point,  the mental state of the staff losing 40 people in a day must be shot.

I can't imagine any of the staff will have experienced anything like it before. 

[Mungler]

6 hours ago, Mice! said:

And people wonder why it's still spreading. 

So half the office have rolled the dice and been fine, I wonder how the people will feel if just one person was to die from catching covid at work? It sounds to me like there are far to many people working in the office?

I wonder what's been done to stop the other half getting it?

Oh do pack in the sanctimonious clap trap.

There are some businesses that still have to function and are allowed to function and that’s us.
 

If I could suck on the furlough / government grant teat like everyone else and watch Netflix whilst doing f-all I would, but alas no, I’m putting myself at risk and cracking on with it. 

[al4x]

52 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Oh do pack in the sanctimonious clap trap.

There are some businesses that still have to function and are allowed to function and that’s us.
 

If I could suck on the furlough / government grant teat like everyone else and watch Netflix whilst doing f-all I would, but alas no, I’m putting myself at risk and cracking on with it. 

We have pretty much done the same but, split our office over 2 sites so we only have 4 people in a large open plan office. Warehouse is completely separate as are drivers and we have been lucky so far with no cases.  From what I can see we move goods from auctions all over the country and most are working still.  Closed to the public we book collections and they open up and put the goods in an open area for us to collect. 
Since the initial shutdown when we closed we have been working ever since keeping 25 people off furlough.  However it’s feeling closer at the moment, one auctioneer lost a 35 year old staff member to it at Christmas who we knew well.  That was a reminder of the dice rolls as he was healthy.