Clarkson vs Covid (but mostly the BBC)

[Gordon R]

Quote

Even a monarchic feudal police state like Saudi Arabia is running rings around Britain these days.

In the field of human rights - they are running rings around us. You are so right - it's uncanny.

[Retsdon]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

But the thing is, even after all you’ve claimed above, none of it stopped you coming to the UK in June, where, despite what you say above, we are also allowed out of our houses, and what’s more, I know where I’d rather be living. 🙂

Your posts increasingly come across as someone who is quite unhappy and embittered for some reason. Why is that? 

Why is it always about me? First there's Rewulf with his snide personal comments about my current location and now it's my state of mind.  But if it's not about me, it'll about Corbyn, or Starmer, or the Mayor of Worksop. What it will never, ever be about is this criminally incompetent and dishonest government. Anyway, as it seems to be the fashion to make things personal - here's a parting one for you.

"A people that elect corrupt politicians are not victims but accomplices” -  George Orwell

Perhaps that explains it.

 

 

[Mice!]

@Retsdon genuine question,  are Saudi doing the mass testing that is taking place in Britain,  can anyone with symptoms turn up and take a test for free?

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

Why is it always about me? First there's Rewulf with his snide personal comments about my current location and now it's my state of mind.  But if it's not about me, it'll about Corbyn, or Starmer, or the Mayor of Worksop. What it will never, ever be about is this criminally incompetent and dishonest government. Anyway, as it seems to be the fashion to make things personal - here's a parting one for you.

"A people that elect corrupt politicians are not victims but accomplices” -  George Orwell

Perhaps that explains it.

 

 

Hmmmmm, not sure it was a personal comment , snide ? I'll give you that , but people who live in glass houses.....

You have a particular problem with the UK government,  I believe that's more to do with your personal situation than anything else, but that's beside the point, covid response has been fairly uniform amongst the larger eu countries, Spain,  Italy,  France,  all have large covid infection rates and deaths, tighter lockdowns , yet you single out Boris ?

You could be a bit more impartial, and say lots of governments got it wrong,maybe because they all followed the same science? 

You state the Saudis have done a good job at containment, good for them , lots of other countries did too, many a lot poorer, maybe they didn't follow the science?

What would you have Boris do , ignore SAGE , take a gamble and try a Swedish method? The first 5000 deaths and he would have been crucified!

He followed advice , released cash , and did the best he could in a bad situation, do you think starmer would have done any different ?

I think you're being very naive if you think a different government would have acted differently. 

[Dave-G]

4 hours ago, Retsdon said:

.... because for all its faults the Saudi government has largely got on top of Covid. When I came to the UK in June both countries had roughly the same number of cases. And yet today Saudi registered 104 new ones and 9 deaths whereas after Boris's world-beating efforts  - how many was it today? Oh look!  Another record broken...a mere 60,916 new infections and 830 dead....

 

Might that not be down to the goodly amount of sunshine cleansing pathogens over there vs the almost total lack of sunlight here recently?

[udderlyoffroad]

10 hours ago, Mice! said:

Liverpool was around 3000 cases with the age group being a lot younger than you think

How young do I think they are?

 

10 hours ago, Mice! said:

still think the tier system doesn't work or that a lockdown isn't needed?

Yes, and very much yes.

14700 positive out of how many tests?

Six weeks before the current system is even reviewed?  We must be mad.

No wonder our Saudi correspondant is crowing and preening himself about what a wonderful country he lives in.  "Hands up all those who disagree with the regime"

At least here, I can (just about) still criticise the government on an internet forum without fear of reprisals.

[Scully]

11 hours ago, Retsdon said:

Why is it always about me? First there's Rewulf with his snide personal comments about my current location and now it's my state of mind.  But if it's not about me, it'll about Corbyn, or Starmer, or the Mayor of Worksop. What it will never, ever be about is this criminally incompetent and dishonest government. Anyway, as it seems to be the fashion to make things personal - here's a parting one for you.

"A people that elect corrupt politicians are not victims but accomplices” -  George Orwell

Perhaps that explains it.

 

 

Why wouldn’t it be about you? 
You belittle those who voted into power Boris, just as you have done again at the end of your post above, and you expect us not to fire back? 
Why is this government any the more dishonest or criminally inept than any other? They’re politicians for crying out loud! What are you expecting? 

You’ve chosen to live in a feudal country which has a 17th century mindset towards much of its own citizens, especially its women, and a penchant for chopping up into bits those who criticise its regime, and all you can do is criticise our government and those who voted for it! 
Is it me? 

[Boristhedog]

9 hours ago, Dave-G said:

Might that not be down to the goodly amount of sunshine cleansing pathogens over there vs the almost total lack of sunlight here recently?

You have a very valid point here. All our colds, flues and the like tend to reduce significantly during the warmer months so why shouldn't Covid, it's the same type of virus.  If that is the case, good old Saudi Arabia ought to all but free of the virus with little help from its government.

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Boristhedog said:

You have a very valid point here. All our colds, flues and the like tend to reduce significantly during the warmer months so why shouldn't Covid, it's the same type of virus.  If that is the case, good old Saudi Arabia ought to all but free of the virus with little help from its government.

It is an interesting point, why does Africa have such low numbers ?
Summer here saw numbers drop significantly, but....
South and north America with fairly sunny climes in many parts have been hit hard throughout, is it a question of humidity ?
Population density , or as some purport , genetics ?

What does concern me is this.
There seems little emphasis on finding the root of the issue, of understanding the hows , whens and whys.
Everything seems to be geared up to combatting the symptoms, vaccines that 'might' last so long, measures that 'might' be relaxed 'later'
If (and I seriously doubt it) covid 19 was a naturally occurring phenomena, what is to stop the (possibly) far more lethal covid 21, 22 or 25 doing this over and over again ?

[discobob]

@RewulfChina is very active in Africa and is pumping a lot of money into it to get access to the resources (minerals etc)

I was also wondering if you wanted to go in on a job lot of tin-foil - might be able to get the price down if we get a group buy going 🤣

[Mice!]

24 minutes ago, discobob said:

@RewulfChina is very active in Africa and is pumping a lot of money into it to get access to the resources (minerals etc)

I was also wondering if you wanted to go in on a job lot of tin-foil - might be able to get the price down if we get a group buy going 🤣

You can probably get a good deal on the Turkey foil that's left after xmas 😅

 

[Rewulf]

28 minutes ago, discobob said:

I was also wondering if you wanted to go in on a job lot of tin-foil - might be able to get the price down if we get a group buy going 🤣

 

1 minute ago, Mice! said:

You can probably get a good deal on the Turkey foil that's left after xmas 😅

Its OK I panic bought a tonne load as soon as I heard that half a million people would be dead by Xmas 

Cant be too careful now 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

         

[Mice!]

6 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

How young do I think they are?

Did you even look at the links?

So yesterday there were 60,000 plus positive cases, if by the end of the week it was 200,000 would it be ok to lockdown?

Or the week after when it maybe doubles again?

Do you not believe that something needs to be done to once again stop the spread?

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

It is an interesting point, why does Africa have such low numbers ?
Summer here saw numbers drop significantly, but....
South and north America with fairly sunny climes in many parts have been hit hard throughout, is it a question of humidity ?
Population density , or as some purport , genetics ?

What does concern me is this.
There seems little emphasis on finding the root of the issue, of understanding the hows , whens and whys.
Everything seems to be geared up to combatting the symptoms, vaccines that 'might' last so long, measures that 'might' be relaxed 'later'
If (and I seriously doubt it) covid 19 was a naturally occurring phenomena, what is to stop the (possibly) far more lethal covid 21, 22 or 25 doing this over and over again ?

Africa has no mechanism to count infections. 

There is a huge emphasis on on tackling the root of the issue hence the approach to develop RNA vaccine's that can more quickly be modified.

[Dave-G]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

......
If (and I seriously doubt it) covid 19 was a naturally occurring phenomena, what is to stop the (possibly) far more lethal covid 21, 22 or 25 doing this over and over again ?

I think it would be really naive to think an odd government here and there hasn't already started work on more refined versions that we've seen the rehearsals/demo's of, a bit like nuc tests if you like.

Tin foil at the ready.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Dave-G

[Rewulf]

23 minutes ago, oowee said:

Africa has no mechanism to count infections. 

Even in urban areas ?
They must have hospitals and health centres where people go if seriously ill ?
If no one is testing, then surely someone is making a note of (possible) deaths from covid ?

It could be that the African life expectancy makes covid deaths less likely ?
What about China?
Ae we to believe their figures , and if we do , why so low given the population density ?

23 minutes ago, oowee said:

There is a huge emphasis on on tackling the root of the issue hence the approach to develop RNA vaccine's that can more quickly be modified.

That isnt tackling the root ?
Thats treating the symptom.
If covid mutates significantly enough to make the vaccine far less effective, how long to modify , test and produce ?
This could literally happen multiple times a year.
We were woefully , some might say deliberately unprepared for a virus we KNEW was coming, modern world travel made it a certainty.
Surely work started on an RNA type vaccine then , and surely wasnt a 'from scratch' process , given the abundance of corona type virus's?
Covid 19 made its 'official' debut here beginning of March, 9 months later a vaccine starts rolling out.
Fighting a defensive action like that , guarantees any similar covids , or for that matter , any more lethal diseases will enact a terrible toll, and zero chance of any return to normality with that kind of strategy.
 

Just now, Dave-G said:

I think it would be really naive to think an odd government here and there hasn't already started work on more refined versions.

This is the thing, if the whole covid 19 thing was a deliberate act by a 'state actor' well , in my book , thats waging biological warfare on a nation(s)

 

[Dave-G]

4 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

This is the thing, if the whole covid 19 thing was a deliberate act by a 'state actor' well , in my book , thats waging biological warfare on a nation(s)

 

I think we can safely say its been tested erm demonstrated what a country could do to ooh lets say country's that had the audacity to ban say a communist state controlled telecoms company software for example.

Unwrapping the tin foil now.

[udderlyoffroad]

33 minutes ago, Mice! said:

So yesterday there were 60,000 plus positive cases, if by the end of the week it was 200,000 would it be ok to lockdown?

No, because lockdowns don't work to prevent the spread of an airborne virus.  This has been demonstrated countless times.

All lockdowns do is concentrate where people congregate (supermarkets etc).

This latest assault on our civil liberties will kill more people than it saves, of that I am in no doubt.  Trouble is, it will take 25 years or so to prove.  But I am confident that history will not look kindly on this lockdown madness.

 

34 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Do you not believe that something needs to be done to once again stop the spread?

Herd immunity - which is how vaccines work to protect a population, don't forget - is the only meaningful thing that can be done at this point.

If we must have a tier system, it should be based on your susceptibility to COVID and not your geographic location.  So, immuno compromised people, Tier 4.   Asthmatics, Tier 3, and so on.

As we get proper, peer reviewed research, into precisely what makes you vulnerable to COVID, you could find yourself moved up and down the tiers.  This is, in effect, a more sophisticated version of what Sweden et al did.  The vulnerable locked down, the rest of the population were free to carry on not killing themselves or the economy.

 

[oowee]

22 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Even in urban areas ?
They must have hospitals and health centres where people go if seriously ill ?
If no one is testing, then surely someone is making a note of (possible) deaths from covid ?

It could be that the African life expectancy makes covid deaths less likely ?
What about China?
Ae we to believe their figures , and if we do , why so low given the population density ?

That isnt tackling the root ?
Thats treating the symptom.
If covid mutates significantly enough to make the vaccine far less effective, how long to modify , test and produce ?
This could literally happen multiple times a year.
We were woefully , some might say deliberately unprepared for a virus we KNEW was coming, modern world travel made it a certainty.
Surely work started on an RNA type vaccine then , and surely wasnt a 'from scratch' process , given the abundance of corona type virus's?
Covid 19 made its 'official' debut here beginning of March, 9 months later a vaccine starts rolling out.
Fighting a defensive action like that , guarantees any similar covids , or for that matter , any more lethal diseases will enact a terrible toll, and zero chance of any return to normality with that kind of strategy.
 

This is the thing, if the whole covid 19 thing was a deliberate act by a 'state actor' well , in my book , thats waging biological warfare on a nation(s)

 

Urban areas  What would that be? White urban areas maybe yes but this is a small part of the population. Covid may be more or less likely to kill in SA we don't have the evidence. 

I would not believe any data coming out of China except a price and even that might change.

The mRNA approach to vaccine production is a new approach  designed to be manipulated easier and quicker than traditional approach to vaccine production precisely because there will be many covids and the like.  It was and has been worked on for a number of years for flu and zikka and cancer. It is hoped that the approach will allow a vaccine to tackle lots of different diseases. 

We knew what was needed to fight the coming pandemic as predicted but Matt Hancock chose to ignore the advice.

Life is the cause of disease are you suggesting we stop it? 

[Rewulf]

8 minutes ago, oowee said:

Urban areas  What would that be? White urban areas maybe yes but this is a small part of the population.

Im pretty sure urban areas in African countries dont just have white people in them ?
Im also sure poor 'black' areas have some form of health care, and a means of counting mortality rates, or is this just down to the local witch doctor ?

16 minutes ago, oowee said:

I would not believe any data coming out of China except a price and even that might change.

Theyve done a pretty good job of hiding the bodies then ?
China isnt a closed society where no one talks to the outside world, the interweb put paid to that a long time ago.

22 minutes ago, oowee said:

The mRNA approach to vaccine production is a new approach  designed to be manipulated easier and quicker than traditional approach to vaccine production precisely because there will be many covids and the like.  It was and has been worked on for a number of years for flu and zikka and cancer. It is hoped that the approach will allow a vaccine to tackle lots of different diseases. 

Its not that 'new' its just never been approved as a viable weapon to combat disease , until now....

https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/

24 minutes ago, oowee said:

We knew what was needed to fight the coming pandemic as predicted but Matt Hancock chose to ignore the advice.

Funny how every other health minister, in every other country chose to ignore it too ?

25 minutes ago, oowee said:

Life is the cause of disease are you suggesting we stop it? 

In this particular case , it was a bat , was it not ?

I say kill all the bats, and we should have less problems 

[the enigma]

Seems to be at odds with the op

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=262994378584440&id=100046216395270

[oowee]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Im pretty sure urban areas in African countries dont just have white people in them ?
Im also sure poor 'black' areas have some form of health care, and a means of counting mortality rates, or is this just down to the local witch doctor ?

Theyve done a pretty good job of hiding the bodies then ?
China isnt a closed society where no one talks to the outside world, the interweb put paid to that a long time ago.

Its not that 'new' its just never been approved as a viable weapon to combat disease , until now....

https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/

Funny how every other health minister, in every other country chose to ignore it too ?

In this particular case , it was a bat , was it not ?

I say kill all the bats, and we should have less problems 

There  are vast townships (that might be called urban) that are predominantly black. Public healthcare is available to all but you have to pay to use it. No doubt hospital costs are prohibitive for low to middle income households. 

New in the sense that it mRNA had not been used in this way before.  

I don't know if other countries had the large scale pandemic trials that the UK had. Either way we did have the trials here in the UK and Matt ignored the findings. Ironic given the 'We will follow the science' message.

China. I don't doubt that the state has controlled it far better than many. Hiding the bodies, there is no need? Hiding the cause of death or the way it is reported is a different matter? Much harder to deal with the damage to the countries image than the virus.

It was initially thought to be a bat and originated in Wuhan. I understand the genetic code of the virus also points in that direction. Now China is working hard to deflect that and suggest that Wuhan was merely the first point of detection of the virus and that it originated outside of the country. 

[Mice!]

3 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

No, because lockdowns don't work to prevent the spread of an airborne virus.  This has been demonstrated countless times.

All lockdowns do is concentrate where people congregate (supermarkets etc).

If we are only shopping for food/essentials in and out wearing a mask that minimises the risks, big difference compared to people wandering around shopping centres for a couple of hours. 

I've just been to Aldi,  it was quiet I was in and out in ten minutes at the most, yes I'm only picking up bits, but I'd have spent far longer having a pint or three.

Same with people staying home and not going to school/work,  it's less people using public transport and mixing.

The Isle of Man has announced they are going into lockdown from tonight,  apparently they have 15 cases.

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Im pretty sure urban areas in African countries dont just have white people in them ?
Im also sure poor 'black' areas have some form of health care, and a means of counting mortality rates, or is this just down to the local witch doctor ?

There was an article on the telly last year about covid in Africa somewhere,  they were asking about what facilities they had,  it was something like 50+ probably many more using one porta loo 😳

I can't imagine any poorer countries giving any sort of accurate usable data on covid, Africa, Venezuela,  India, Brazil.

India and Brazil aren't poor countries but there are large portions of the countries that are beyond our understanding of poor.

[treetree]

An update from the horses mouth. Note the difference between the media hyperbole and the reality.