Diary of my SGC grant

[Pangolin]

5 minutes ago, jan8p said:

It will be 4 months next week.

Had a reply from them - yep, still awaiting vetting checks.

Thats poor, no excuse not have done it by now.

[Batler]

I've just crossed the 7 month mark. I've given up hope!

[Pangolin]

6 minutes ago, Batler said:

I've just crossed the 7 month mark. I've given up hope!

Thats not acceptable, get the FEO's number and speak to them.

 

[jan8p]

39 minutes ago, Batler said:

I've just crossed the 7 month mark. I've given up hope!

Are you GMP?

[clangerman]

i would have been calling for the chief constable and feo manager to be fired three mths ago nothing justifies seven mth wait this is just gross incompetence 

[Batler]

1 hour ago, jan8p said:

Are you GMP?

Yeah, I applied in August and they told me they were accepting new applications. Spoke to them in January and they told me they were accepting then but weren't processing them and now they've stopped accepting completely.

 

It's so frustrating

[jan8p]

Tell me about it.  Covid is a convenient excuse to hide behind for inadequacies that were present well before the pandemic happened, at least in Durham's case.

[saddler]

16 minutes ago, jan8p said:

Tell me about it.  Covid is a convenient excuse to hide behind for inadequacies that were present well before the pandemic happened, at least in Durham's case.

Durham! NO, really??

Oh, yeah, the DURHAM force that seizes an un-proofed .308, from an RFD premises and IN a box on it's way to be Proofed, because "...it's illegal as it's not proofed..." (contrary to the info on Durham's own website)
THEN Durham decides a couple of months later to return it as it's not illegal "...as long as long it is sent to proof..."  🤪
THEN decides they better NOT release it back to the FAC owner or an RFD as "....we're carrying out further investigations..."

OVER SEVEN MONTHS AND COUNTING - STILL NO LEGAL REASON GIVEN FOR THE ILLEGAL SEIZURE OF THE .308 - STILL NO SIGN OF THE SEIZED PRIVATE PROPERTY BEING RETURNED EITHER

No worry though - it's with a Superintendent rank to be reviewed - but someone the HQ seems ignorant of (his name was not known in the office I spoke to...!)

The phrase I have heard from the firearms dept more than once "We know best, we're Durham..."
 

Oh.
RENEWALS with Durham - I've been told by others also going through the process, the FLD have told them to expect around a 12 month processing time!!

 

[jan8p]

7 hours ago, saddler said:

Durham! NO, really??

Oh, yeah, the DURHAM force that seizes an un-proofed .308, from an RFD premises and IN a box on it's way to be Proofed, because "...it's illegal as it's not proofed..." (contrary to the info on Durham's own website)
THEN Durham decides a couple of months later to return it as it's not illegal "...as long as long it is sent to proof..."  🤪
THEN decides they better NOT release it back to the FAC owner or an RFD as "....we're carrying out further investigations..."

OVER SEVEN MONTHS AND COUNTING - STILL NO LEGAL REASON GIVEN FOR THE ILLEGAL SEIZURE OF THE .308 - STILL NO SIGN OF THE SEIZED PRIVATE PROPERTY BEING RETURNED EITHER

No worry though - it's with a Superintendent rank to be reviewed - but someone the HQ seems ignorant of (his name was not known in the office I spoke to...!)

The phrase I have heard from the firearms dept more than once "We know best, we're Durham..."
 

Oh.
RENEWALS with Durham - I've been told by others also going through the process, the FLD have told them to expect around a 12 month processing time!!

 

You should contact professional standards about that!

[clangerman]

10 hours ago, saddler said:

Durham! NO, really??

Oh, yeah, the DURHAM force that seizes an un-proofed .308, from an RFD premises and IN a box on it's way to be Proofed, because "...it's illegal as it's not proofed..." (contrary to the info on Durham's own website)
THEN Durham decides a couple of months later to return it as it's not illegal "...as long as long it is sent to proof..."  🤪
THEN decides they better NOT release it back to the FAC owner or an RFD as "....we're carrying out further investigations..."

OVER SEVEN MONTHS AND COUNTING - STILL NO LEGAL REASON GIVEN FOR THE ILLEGAL SEIZURE OF THE .308 - STILL NO SIGN OF THE SEIZED PRIVATE PROPERTY BEING RETURNED EITHER

No worry though - it's with a Superintendent rank to be reviewed - but someone the HQ seems ignorant of (his name was not known in the office I spoke to...!)

The phrase I have heard from the firearms dept more than once "We know best, we're Durham..."
 

Oh.
RENEWALS with Durham - I've been told by others also going through the process, the FLD have told them to expect around a 12 month processing time!!

 

issue small claims case with the chief constables name in box marked defendant only takes mins watch how fast they cave in 

[rbrowning2]

Amazing is it not, they still issue covid fines, speeding fines etc and no other government department has stopped work, like inland revenue or DVLA.

surely the shooting organisations could start the JR process for failing to discharge their legal responsibilities.

WJ complain to DEFRA in days/weeks if they fail to reply to a question.

we just lie back and take it month after month.

[Scully]

22 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

Amazing is it not, they still issue covid fines, speeding fines etc and no other government department has stopped work, like inland revenue or DVLA.

surely the shooting organisations could start the JR process for failing to discharge their legal responsibilities.

WJ complain to DEFRA in days/weeks if they fail to reply to a question.

we just lie back and take it month after month.

Bang on. 👍

[rbrowning2]

I am beginning to conclude the only way forward given the total lack of any action or desire to fight from the like of BASC other than words is that we do exactly as WJ.
 

Start a not for profit company with three directors and then do as WJ crowd fund to take any necessary legal action to take the fight to the police or HO.
That way no individual needs to feel that their own gun certificate is at risk by challenging the police or that they do not have the money.
We would not fight individual certificate issues but the larger issues like GP reports and not doing new grants or variations at this time.

ShootersJustice.   A call to action.

 

[Scully]

14 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

I am beginning to conclude the only way forward given the total lack of any action or desire to fight from the like of BASC other than words is that we do exactly as WJ.
 

Start a not for profit company with three directors and then do as WJ crowd fund to take any necessary legal action to take the fight to the police or HO.
That way no individual needs to feel that their own gun certificate is at risk by challenging the police or that they do not have the money.
We would not fight individual certificate issues but the larger issues like GP reports and not doing new grants or variations at this time.

ShootersJustice.   A call to action.

 

And I would gladly contribute. 

[udderlyoffroad]

1 hour ago, rbrowning2 said:

We would not fight individual certificate issues but the larger issues like GP reports and not doing new grants or variations at this time.

How do you propose to do that?  

WJ sought judicial review of various legal documents, viz. the general licences.

You would be seeking judicial review of, er, home office guidance. 

The whole licencing process is couched in very woolly legal terms and deliberately gives a chief constable lots of discretion. 

If there were any easy legal wins, the orgs, despite what you may think of them, would've done so by now.

Even if you don't believe that last statement, and I accept other opinions are available, doesn't alter the fact that you would be starting on very shaky legal ground.

Further, I'd suggest conducting 'lawfare' isn't the PR shooting needs.  Can you imagine the tabloid headlines?

[clangerman]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

How do you propose to do that?  

WJ sought judicial review of various legal documents, viz. the general licences.

You would be seeking judicial review of, er, home office guidance. 

The whole licencing process is couched in very woolly legal terms and deliberately gives a chief constable lots of discretion. 

If there were any easy legal wins, the orgs, despite what you may think of them, would've done so by now.

Even if you don't believe that last statement, and I accept other opinions are available, doesn't alter the fact that you would be starting on very shaky legal ground.

Further, I'd suggest conducting 'lawfare' isn't the PR shooting needs.  Can you imagine the tabloid headlines?

couldn’t get worse pr than shooting orgs portraying us as champagne charlie’s and they could have easily challenged the gp reports they were just to tight to spend the money 

[rbrowning2]

The GP process was setup to weed out the applicants prepared to falsely declare their medical history, but the process fell in to disarray when applicant registered GPs refused to engage in the process.
The stupidly of allowing an applicant to get a GDPR printout which gives them the opportunity to alter the printout prior to sending to a business, another GP, who has never met the applicant and has only the information sent to them by the applicant means the process is no better than what went before.

The whole process needs independently reviewing by the likes of a Judge and corrective action taken, be that making it part of every GPs contract to engage in the process.

 

[saddler]

11 hours ago, jan8p said:

You should contact professional standards about that!

DID - as of Sept. 21
Then CC's office could not have been less interested
The P&CC is non-existent
All the other organisations & bodies were a complete blank
STILL waiting for the outcome of the Official Complaint

7 hours ago, clangerman said:

issue small claims case with the chief constables name in box marked defendant only takes mins watch how fast they cave in 

I doubt she would even notice it...but given the time that's now passed, this issue is past a joke
More than happy to chuck 30 notes or so to file a SCC summons/action = bit of a track record with them, the last one I did was against Jack Straw re. the handgun compensation claim delays - I won that one by a big margin!

[clangerman]

34 minutes ago, saddler said:

DID - as of Sept. 21
Then CC's office could not have been less interested
The P&CC is non-existent
All the other organisations & bodies were a complete blank
STILL waiting for the outcome of the Official Complaint

I doubt she would even notice it...but given the time that's now passed, this issue is past a joke
More than happy to chuck 30 notes or so to file a SCC summons/action = bit of a track record with them, the last one I did was against Jack Straw re. the handgun compensation claim delays - I won that one by a big margin!

trust me those at fault will not let it come to the chief constable receiving a summons unless they wish to be unemployed lol 

[saddler]

2 hours ago, clangerman said:

trust me those at fault will not let it come to the chief constable receiving a summons unless they wish to be unemployed lol 

I e-mailed my initial concerns direct to her office. My concerns were dismissed out of hand....

Aside from the illegally seized rifle, there's also the minor issue of an FEO breaching PACE rules & a few other things worthy of serious scrutiny

"...We're Durham, we know best..." is a mantra to live and die by I suppose. It is going to get a little warm for some, as I know of at least one other official complaint about the Firearms Dept.
It's a shame, as aside from an FEO who had the administrative skill set of a 7 legged spider, they've normally been very pleasant and efficient.

[clangerman]

i doubt your concerns got to her actual desk i won’t put up with fools out of principal son inlaw got his first ticket during covid in just few weeks more by dropping my name i suspect than by accident feo is not one of my fans lol 

[saddler]

20 hours ago, clangerman said:

i doubt your concerns got to her actual desk i won’t put up with fools out of principal son inlaw got his first ticket during covid in just few weeks more by dropping my name i suspect than by accident feo is not one of my fans lol 

Well. Spoke to the Firearms Dept today.
No joy from any of the decision makers re. the return of my property, so....
TOMORROW is another day!

Aside from the official complaint I have been a little quiet on this, with the force.
Maybe they took that as reluctance to go further, or some warped idea that I'd take their unlawful actions as acceptable & just wait for them come up with a decision as & when they see fit (...from a case dating from early Sept., when they're saying renewals will be around a year to process? ...)

Nah...
 

[pudbas1]

applied to Notts March last year for a shotgun licence, they sent it back in April was asked to apply again in july, applied in July it got sent back again, seen on Notts police website they are now excepting, hopefully 3rd time lucky.

[Poor Shot]

I'm now 8 months deep with my SGC application with South Wales police with seemingly no end in sight.

Their phone lines are shut down and emails to the firearms dept staff just get generic 'its COVID Sir' type responses.

Close contact services resume next week so I assume they now have no excuse and must proceed with home visits. 

It's been almost a year if you include the time it took to get the medical proforma sorted out.

I wonder if it would take this long if the whole firearms licensing thing was privatised. I'd happily pay a £150-£200 fee if there was guaranteed timescales on license grants.

It seems that with firearms licensing in its current state your at the mercy of admin staff of your particular force. 

[mossy835]

they just put it down to cv19,not a lot can be done at the moment,