Lead shot for live quarry - a five-year transition, not a one-year solution

[Rewulf]

27 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

There is something else going on behind this. Jostling for a place a bigger table, looking to secure government money for future projects ?  When farm subsidies go in a few years time environmental schemes will be the only way farms will make a living and game shooting will be detrimental to the countryside won’t look good for on tax payers money . Maybe over thinking it, but the most stupid person in the world wouldn’t alienate or sack the people that pay there wages 

I dont think you are at all, my theory is that BASC will be at the forefront of game shooting, ie , in CONTROL of it, thats why they are so keen to make shooting for the little man as expensive as possible.
It could be a very lucrative revenue stream for them , whilst making field shooting sports more 'elite'

The ordinary shooter has every right to gain land permissions, giving them a genuine reason to possess, as much as the powers that be would likely like this to be curtailed, there isnt really much they can do about it.
However, if they make it an increasingly more difficult/expensive sport to indulge in, then they dont need a reason, because you, the shooter , will get that fed up with it , you will simply stop, and not renew.
The doctors letter debacle took a toll Im sure , and making carts cost 3 or 4 x more will too,

And BASC are helping them achieve this aim, with their remaining members paying for the privilege .

Edited April 16, 2021 by Rewulf

[Fellside]

My two penneth: I think it’s more of a nee jerk piece of ‘environmentalism’ from gov’ and org’s. Being seen to ride the ‘green wave’ re populism etc. 

[8 shot]

A BASC rep on another thread is running with old science papers to get the bird persecution side for though who couldn’t careless about game shooting one way or another a bit like the hunting ban 90% of people couldn’t of careless. 

[clangerman]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

I dont think you are at all, my theory is that BASC will be at the forefront of game shooting, ie , in CONTROL of it, thats why they are so keen to make shooting for the little man as expensive as possible.
It could be a very lucrative revenue stream for them , whilst making field shooting sports more 'elite'

The ordinary shooter has every right to gain land permissions, giving them a genuine reason to possess, as much as the powers that be would likely like this to be curtailed, there isnt really much they can do about it.
However, if they make it an increasingly more difficult/expensive sport to indulge in, then they dont need a reason, because you, the shooter , will get that fed up with it , you will simply stop, and not renew.
The doctors letter debacle took a toll Im sure , and making carts cost 3 or 4 x more will too,

And BASC are helping them achieve this aim, with their remaining members paying for the privilege .

if those behind this think shooters forced to give up will go quietly they are making a fatal mistake you can fire INTO the trench same as you can fire OUT of it 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, clangerman said:

if those behind this think shooters forced to give up will go quietly they are making a fatal mistake you can fire INTO the trench same as you can fire OUT of it 

They/will go quietly , slowly but surely , the prices will go up, the hoops will get higher.
At the moment a days driven shooting , a round of clays , or an afternoon on the pigeons is a reasonably affordable sport.

Most peoples guns are OK for non toxic, so you cant really hit them there, the licence fee likely wont go up too much whilst theres still plenty shooting.
But you put the ammo price up, then youll see some slackening off.
Its not going to happen overnight , it probably wont happen by 2025, but the removal of lead from ammunition, is the beginning of the end for man in the street shooting.

[8 shot]

The days we’ve provisionally booked covid permitting have gone up £6/bird roughly £1000 for the day. He’s not non toxic this year but unsure for following.British made Cartridges have gone up considerably since March so it’s started 

[Scully]

38 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

The days we’ve provisionally booked covid permitting have gone up £6/bird roughly £1000 for the day. He’s not non toxic this year but unsure for following.British made Cartridges have gone up considerably since March so it’s started 

Have they explained the reason for the increase? 
Our syndicate fees remain the same as last season; the only difference is the game dealer has asked for 50% up front, so obviously his poults are the same price as last year. 

[London Best]

30 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

The days we’ve provisionally booked covid permitting have gone up £6/bird roughly £1000 for the day. He’s not non toxic this year but unsure for following.British made Cartridges have gone up considerably since March so it’s started 

I have nine days booked so far for next season with four different places. None have increased their prices over last season.

If you usually fire, say, fifty cartridges on a driven day then your ammo cost is probably around twenty pounds ish.  If you were to use Bismuth on that day your cost would be around sixty pounds, an increase of forty pounds. The cost of the day to fire those cartridges would probably be between four and six hundred pounds. Does that put the extra ammunition cost into perspective for you? Cartridges have always been the least part of shooting driven game.

[8 shot]

It’s a family member who actually does the booking he’s retired so had more time, I didn’t give the prices much thought as I assumed prices would rise due to last season. Speaking to a very knowledgable shooting man yesterday running two big shoots he said prices will go up because of demand from last year 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, 8 shot said:

Speaking to a very knowledgable shooting man yesterday running two big shoots he said prices will go up because of demand from last year 

That is what we are hearing!

Edited April 16, 2021 by TIGHTCHOKE

[London Best]

Just now, 8 shot said:

It’s a family member who actually does the booking he’s retired so had more time, I didn’t give the prices much thought as I assumed prices would rise due to last season. Speaking to a very knowledgable shooting man yesterday running two big shoots he said prices will go up because of demand from last year 

Your man is probably right. 
I expected an increase but have not yet seen it.

[Gas seal]

Hi London Best and 8Shot if you look on Bio ammo website they make a cartridge bioammo blue. This may interest you. If you email them thay will send you information on them. l hope this helps.

[London Best]

9 minutes ago, Gas seal said:

Hi London Best and 8Shot if you look on Bio ammo website they make a cartridge bioammo blue. This may interest you. If you email them thay will send you information on them. l hope this helps.

Thanks. Had a quick look. All they need to do now is make a load for 2 1/2 inch case game guns.

[rbrowning2]

20 minutes ago, Gas seal said:

Hi London Best and 8Shot if you look on Bio ammo website they make a cartridge bioammo blue. This may interest you. If you email them thay will send you information on them. l hope this helps.

But this is an interesting read

https://bioammo.es/leave-no-trace-behind/

Two years to decompose if composted longer if on the surface, is that really a suitable replacement for current fibre wads? The eco plastic wads Eley are using are gone in days.

In temperate conditions, our ammunition will biodegrade within approximately two years

• They will biodegrade on the surface, although a little slower as there are fewer micro-organisms. However as the wads are brown they will not visually pollute the enviroment either.

Edited April 16, 2021 by rbrowning2

[8 shot]

3 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

But this is an interesting read

https://bioammo.es/leave-no-trace-behind/

Two years to decompose if composted longer if on the surface, is that really a suitable replacement for current fibre wads? The eco plastic wads Eley are using are gone in days.

In temperate conditions, our ammunition will biodegrade within approximately two years

• They will biodegrade on the surface, although a little slower as there are fewer micro-organisms. However as the wads are brown they will not visually pollute the enviroment either.

Sounds perfect for a woodland or arable scenario, no good for pastures. Would be interesting to see how they work wrapped in a bale of Haylage or in a bale of hay, no air etc. No 20 bore either

Edited April 16, 2021 by 8 shot

[Smokersmith]

4 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

That is what we are hearing!

Could go either way ... high demand now, but if overseas guns can’t travel (variants etc) then it’ll go the other way.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

On 15/04/2021 at 10:11, Fellside said:

Conor,

Just for clarity. Personally I am not a conspiracist nor a BASC basher. I merely insist upon high quality ‘clean evidence’ re terrestrial context - thus far not demonstrated.  I appreciate your contributions to the discussion. 

Thanks. A recent paper that covers the terrestrial context is here:

2019. Effects of lead from ammunition on birds and other wildlife: A review and update.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13280-019-01159-0

[8 shot]

27 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

Could go either way ... high demand now, but if overseas guns can’t travel (variants etc) then it’ll go the other way.

 

Very good point.We don't shoot until late november onwards so should know by then oneway or another

Edited April 16, 2021 by 8 shot

[Fellside]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Thanks. A recent paper that covers the terrestrial context is here:

2019. Effects of lead from ammunition on birds and other wildlife: A review and update.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13280-019-01159-0

Thanks Conor - I will have a look. 

[Gas seal]

Hi 8 shot. I emailed Bioammo regarding 20gauge cartridges, they will be available in late summer. More gauges of cartridges will follow. It’s not just the wad that is biodegradable it’s also the case . It may take a couple of years to (biodegrade) that’s better than plastic that could be with us for ever. I now use Eley bio 20gauge , the only difference I find is the price, I think we all new that was coming. You may have some good shooting available due to the lockdown, could end up buy one get one free.  Good luck with your booking.

[8 shot]

Hi Gas Seal. thanks for that. I've been to the gunshops this morning looking for some Biowads in steel going to try some in my semi auto and try a few little experiments of my own, and guess what three local gunshops don't have any only the BlackGold Quad Seal in lead. No plans as of yet to stock them in any number as they're to expensive to stock with little or no demand yet  plenty in plastic wads though. Just Cartridges seem to be the only ones that stock them, have to make a special trip

[stockybasher]

21 hours ago, 8 shot said:

Hi Gas Seal. thanks for that. I've been to the gunshops this morning looking for some Biowads in steel going to try some in my semi auto and try a few little experiments of my own, and guess what three local gunshops don't have any only the BlackGold Quad Seal in lead. No plans as of yet to stock them in any number as they're to expensive to stock with little or no demand yet  plenty in plastic wads though. Just Cartridges seem to be the only ones that stock them, have to make a special trip

Depends how far you are from them, but only £16/1000 to deliver - 2/3 days   

[8 shot]

i'm 25ish minutes drive, it,s nice just to have a look at what they have. I really want a box of each degradeable wads just to see what's what.Trouble being is you watch they Youtube clips then find out they're sponsered by the manufactures so instantly think they're biased

[8 shot]

Just going off topic a bit but does anyone think the sale of lead in plastic wads go up now ?

[Old farrier]

3 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

Just going off topic a bit but does anyone think the sale of lead in plastic wads go up now ?

No but it’s highly probable that the price will especially components