Chauvin verdict

[The Heron]

Chauvin took the life of a handcuffed man when he did not need to he has apparently a string of similar offences of over use of force and only a few have been recognised he has got what he deserved a bully in a uniform. 

[12gauge82]

9 hours ago, The Heron said:

Chauvin took the life of a handcuffed man when he did not need to he has apparently a string of similar offences of over use of force and only a few have been recognised he has got what he deserved a bully in a uniform. 

Absolutely agree with this. My concern with the case is more the surrounding political atmosphere with politicians and groups trying to connect it to racism. Look at the protests over here, what exactly has it got to do with the UK and racism that a scumbag in uniform killed another scumbag over a 20 dollar bill. 

[Rewulf]

12 hours ago, henry d said:

He got in the car complained that he could not breathe, Chauvin dragged him out the other side and really helped by kneeling on his neck for around nine minutes

Just to be clear on this , Floyd was never put in a police car, it was during the officers attempts to put him in the car, he resisted arrest and was forcibly detained on the floor.
He continued to talk until he lost conciousness, ruling out asphyxiation , Chauvin had his knee on him for 7 minutes and 46 seconds, not 9 + minutes as claimed by some media, this was the time put forward by the prosecution.

Official cause of death was cardiac arrest, whether this was bought about by the neck compression or by anxiety, coupled with the drugs in his system ?

A full autopsy report on George Floyd, the man who died after being restrained by Minneapolis police last month, reveals that he was positive for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. The 20-page report also indicates that Floyd had fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system at the time of his death, although the drugs are not listed as the cause.

The autopsy report from Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office concludes the cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." That conclusion, death due to heart failure, differs from the one reached by an independent examiner hired by the Floyd family; that report listed the cause of death as "asphyxiation from sustained pressure."

[Wintel73]

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Just to be clear on this , Floyd was never put in a police car, it was during the officers attempts to put him in the car, he resisted arrest and was forcibly detained on the floor.
He continued to talk until he lost conciousness, ruling out asphyxiation , Chauvin had his knee on him for 7 minutes and 46 seconds, not 9 + minutes as claimed by some media, this was the time put forward by the prosecution.

Official cause of death was cardiac arrest, whether this was bought about by the neck compression or by anxiety, coupled with the drugs in his system ?

A full autopsy report on George Floyd, the man who died after being restrained by Minneapolis police last month, reveals that he was positive for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. The 20-page report also indicates that Floyd had fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system at the time of his death, although the drugs are not listed as the cause.

The autopsy report from Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office concludes the cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." That conclusion, death due to heart failure, differs from the one reached by an independent examiner hired by the Floyd family; that report listed the cause of death as "asphyxiation from sustained pressure."

Well put..

Chauvin et al were doing their job restraining a criminal who was non compliant and agitated. If they hadn't restrained him and he managed to injure a member of the public they would have been vilified for that as well.

And Chauvin was never going to get a fair trial, with the 27 million dollar payout to the family before the criminal trial began not to  mention the great and good calling for trouble if he wasn't found guilty before the trial was complete...

The race angle has been hijacked for political gain and any semblance of justice has been lost, and when the conviction is quashed on appeal it will really hit the fan over there.. 

[Wintel73]

18 hours ago, The Heron said:

Chauvin took the life of a handcuffed man when he did not need to he has apparently a string of similar offences of over use of force and only a few have been recognised he has got what he deserved a bully in a uniform. 

Sorry but Chauvin didn't take the mans life at all, Floyd (a criminal caught breaking the law) tragically died while resisting arrest because he was high on drugs AND had heart problems - just as the bona fide post mortem concluded.

The only person that put Floyd in harms way was Floyd.

[udderlyoffroad]

14 minutes ago, Wintel73 said:

and when the conviction is quashed on appeal it will really hit the fan over there.. 

Indeed.

Obviously the PW usual suspects' couldn't resist thoughtless parroting of the media narrative, viz. "policeman was wayyycist".

Also, please can we stop talking about 'American law', and trying to crowbar in parallels with the UK definitions of manslaughter.  It simply isn't relevant. 

Criminal justice is a state-by-state matter.  At issue here is Minnesota law.  That said, this may well end up in a federal court....

[henry d]

31 minutes ago, Wintel73 said:

Sorry but Chauvin didn't take the mans life at all, Floyd (a criminal caught breaking the law) (aren't people innocent until proven guilty?) tragically died while resisting arrest because he was high on drugs AND had heart problems

A court in the US would disagree with you, saying that his physical state was the cause of his death is rank stupidity, if he had not been kneeled on by several large police officers he could have lived many more years but we won't know because he was killed by reckless, irresponsible actions by the people who I believe swear to "Serve and Protect".

[wascal]

On 21/04/2021 at 10:25, clangerman said:

when you refuse to take the stand to clear your name the only one to blame for the verdict is YOURSELF! 

The decision not to testify would have been made by his defence team.

Most criminal defense lawyers avoid putting their client on the stand due to the prosecution’s intense cross-examination and the risk of creating a negative impression with the jury and/or saying something that might incriminate them.

You are innocent until proven guilty So why risk putting your foot in it and make the prosecutions job easier?

 

[ordnance]

Quote

 

Well put..

Chauvin et al were doing their job restraining a criminal who was non compliant and agitated. If they hadn't restrained him and he managed to injure a member of the public they would have been vilified for that as well.

 

So you see holding your knee on someone's keck and keeping it there, after they had stopped breathing as a OK way for police to act 

1 hour ago, Wintel73 said:

Sorry but Chauvin didn't take the mans life at all, Floyd (a criminal caught breaking the law) tragically died while resisting arrest because he was high on drugs AND had heart problems - just as the bona fide post mortem concluded.

The only person that put Floyd in harms way was Floyd.

He was not resisting arrest when he was handcuffed and not breathing, but even then the knee was on his neck and no attempt was made to help him. The cop was a bully and a thug, and is now rightly paying the price.  

[12gauge82]

I seem to be somewhere in the middle of opinion on this one. On one side I believe it almost impossible for chauvin to get a fair trail with the politicisum of the case, not to mention the unfounded link to racism and drumming up of division and violence around the world. I believe Chauvin far overstepped reasonable use of force, it is opposite to everything taught in use of force and is a classic case of positional asphyxiation, to my mind he was clearly enjoying making Floyd suffer, I don't however believe he intended to kill him or even cause him permerment injury. As for Floyd himself, I have very little sympathy, he chose to be a criminal, he chose to take illegal drugs, leading to him resisting arrest and ultimately losing his life. I think a reasonable outcome to this case would have been chauvin getting a year in jail and Floyd will thankfully no longer be able to terrorise good people. There's an old saying "live by the sword and die by it" 

[clangerman]

53 minutes ago, wascal said:

The decision not to testify would have been made by his defence team.

Most criminal defense lawyers avoid putting their client on the stand due to the prosecution’s intense cross-examination and the risk of creating a negative impression with the jury and/or saying something that might incriminate them.

You are innocent until proven guilty So why risk putting your foot in it and make the prosecutions job easier?

 

and there we have it INCRIMINATE his self anyone who is innocent takes the stand the client calls the shots not the leech representing him you can only get tripped up if LYING! 

[ordnance]

Quote

 I think a reasonable outcome to this case would have been chauvin getting a year in jail and Floyd will thankfully no longer be able to terrorise good people. There's an old saying "live by the sword and die by it" 

I would say there will be two no longer able to terrorise good people, with Floyd and Chauvin off the streets. 

[12gauge82]

Just now, ordnance said:

I would say there will be two no longer able to terrorise good people, with Floyd and Chauvin off the streets. 

Yes good point 👍

[ditchman]

the difficult "iffy" bit will come with sentancing........how many years as this will be left to the judges desretion..

[henry d]

1 hour ago, ditchman said:

the difficult "iffy" bit will come with sentancing........how many years as this will be left to the judges desretion..

Perhaps he should ask the "hang em high" PW brigade? If being killed for being a bad lad and mildly resisting arrest is death by cop, then what should it be for a bully boy cop killing a handcuffed man?

[Newbie to this]

4 minutes ago, henry d said:

Perhaps he should ask the "hang em high" PW brigade? If being killed for being a bad lad and mildly resisting arrest is death by cop, then what should it be for a bully boy cop killing a handcuffed man?

Obviously nothing, as the 'bully boy cop' was just passing sentence for the aforementioned crime 

[ditchman]

8 minutes ago, henry d said:

Perhaps he should ask the "hang em high" PW brigade? If being killed for being a bad lad and mildly resisting arrest is death by cop, then what should it be for a bully boy cop killing a handcuffed man?

its nothing to do with PW.............all im saying is ...if he has been convicted that carries a max 40 year sentence......he might be out in 12 years..........and pro-rata for the other degrees.......

what im suggesting is that the poo will hit the fan if the sentances are / is ...light.....

[henry d]

5 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Obviously nothing, as the 'bully boy cop' was just passing sentence for the aforementioned crime 

For crimes of wukfittery over a period of five years I sentence you to exactly the same as you wish on other people.

[henry d]

2 minutes ago, ditchman said:

its nothing to do with PW.............all im saying is ...if he has been convicted that carries a max 40 year sentence......he might be out in 12 years..........and pro-rata for the other degrees.......

what im suggesting is that the poo will hit the fan if the sentances are / is ...light.....

And what I am suggesting is that there is a section of PW that are quite happy to condemn people who repeatedly re-offend to life for 3 strikes then surely Chauvin fits this category? However as he fits their ideas of a tough cop who knows how to deal with an obvious miscreant then we can forego any expensive trial and just get the job done.

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, henry d said:

Chauvin fits this category?

So did Floyd - and had he been in gaol, he would probably still be alive, and Chauvin a free man.

But that, as we know is not what happens.

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

And what I am suggesting is that there is a section of PW that are quite happy to condemn people who repeatedly re-offend to life for 3 strikes then surely Chauvin fits this category? However as he fits their ideas of a tough cop who knows how to deal with an obvious miscreant then we can forego any expensive trial and just get the job done.

I think the difference is henry, that Floyd was a scumbag who thought nothing of harming innocent people, where as chauvin killed a known scumbag, he didn't kill an innocent person. A good demonstration of the difference is if its proven the cop who allegedly killed Sarah Everard is found guilty I'd happily see him hang. I really don't understand how you can't see the difference. 

All I can say is thank god your not a judge, you'd have decent people locked up for having an opinion on hardened criminals and hardend criminals out on the streets running a mock with your logic. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by 12gauge82

[oowee]

15 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think the difference is henry, that Floyd was a scumbag who thought nothing of harming innocent people, where as chauvin killed a known scumbag, he didn't kill an innocent person. A good demonstration of the difference is if its proven the cop who allegedly killed Sarah Everard is found guilty I'd happily see him hang. I really don't understand how you can't see the difference. 

All I can say is thank god your not a judge, you'd have decent people locked up for having an opinion on hardened criminals and hardend criminals out on the streets running a mock with your logic. 

That makes it alright then ? 🤪 Surely we want accountability for all criminals running amock, particularly those wearing a badge pretending to serve and protect.

[12gauge82]

10 minutes ago, oowee said:

That makes it alright then ? 🤪 Surely we want accountability for all criminals running amock, particularly those wearing a badge pretending to serve and protect.

I didn't say it was alright and if you read my earlier posts you will see I am all for locking him up. I'm simply pointing out to Henry the logic of why a killer of innocent people is in a different league to the likes of Chauvin, who I'm not at all convinced intentionally killed Floyd. 

[oowee]

Chauvin is a killer and he will get justice for his actions porportionate as the US justice sees fit. There are as you say different degrees of fault but I would argue that those holding a badge, those that we look to for protection, should be more accountable and held to higher standards than anyone else.

[Newbie to this]

8 hours ago, henry d said:

For crimes of wukfittery over a period of five years I sentence you to exactly the same as you wish on other people.

 it was you that suggested death by cop was the punishment. By that logic the copper was just carrying out sentence