Here we go again......lockdowns

[millrace]

So as yet another highly vaccinated country announces a lockdown (holland) more to follow and apparently being discussed by sage today are we going back in time.....?

How many jabs will it take this time?  Get your 3/boaster and get a free lockdown ohh you now need a 4th tweaked to omicron in spring.....its all becoming a bit eat sleep repeat.....

How can world economies stand this? Prices through roof interest rates up and factories/economies being parked......ireland no bars no need for brewers no need for deliveries ......the magic money computers will have smoke pouring from them, this money dosent exist yet we will have to repay it somehow for many generations.....

There was a graph last nite showing the highest vaccinated countries all now with the highest omicron cases.....unconnected or just plain bad luck we will sadly never know.....but its looking like test tube immunity aint that good.......

I look forward to how they spin this out as not going back but as a reason for whatever jab we need next!!

 

[enfieldspares]

Agreed. 100%.

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, millrace said:

highest vaccinated countries all now with the highest omicron cases.....unconnected

Highest vaccinated broadly aligns with comprehensive health systems, closest testing/monitoring/awareness, ability to determine variants (sequencing I believe is the word).  Also mostly in the northern hemisphere which is in winter - and summer climates may help reduce cases/transmission.

[ordnance]

Quote

I look forward to how they spin this out as not going back but as a reason for whatever jab we need next!!

People get the flu jab each year why would Covid be any different, you can also catch the flu even if vaccinated. The idea is to keep serious illness and deaths down, and pressure of the NHS. The alternative to lockdowns if the NHS is overwhelmed is people needing intensive care and other life saving treatments will be left to die, take your pick, there are no easy answers. 

[JohnfromUK]

26 minutes ago, millrace said:

now with the highest omicron cases

It is also likely that in highly vaccinated populations, the 'other' variants (beta, delta etc.) are more reduced in both infectivity and seriousness and hence may be less detected - whereas omicron is said to be significantly less reduced by vaccination (and previous infection) generated antibodies.  Given that - omicron cases will make up a higher proportion than in less vaccinated populations (who will have a higher vulnerability to the pre omicron versions compared to populations with higher vaccination rates.

[ditchman]

it is getting to the stage where you just have to mention lockdown... and the streets start to empty..........im getting to the stage now that i have forgotton about the sense of freedom that we all once enjoyed.........where i could go anywhere do anything ....be with someone without thinking.

all our lives have changed now ..proberly forever

[Walker570]

8 minutes ago, ordnance said:

People get the flu jab each year why would Covid be any different, you can also catch the flu even if vaccinated. The idea is to keep serious illness and deaths down, and pressure of the NHS. The alternative to lockdowns if the NHS is overwhelmed is people needing intensive care and other life saving treatments will be left to die, take your pick, there are no easy answers. 

Why do we continue to have to SAVE the NHS   Tell me.    We pay our taxes to have these facilities supplied at the best available and it has become very apparent in the last three years if not before that the NHS is not fit for purpose.   NOT those at the sharp end, they are the ones having to struggle and take the flack. It is all down to pathetically poor management at the top and within the Civil Service ...... Service   Most wouldn't know the meaning of the word  Civil Gravy Train it should be called.

[Newbie to this]

12 minutes ago, ordnance said:

The vulnerable get the flu jab each year why would Covid be any different

Fixed it.

[ordnance]

5 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Why do we continue to have to SAVE the NHS   Tell me.    We pay our taxes to have these facilities supplied at the best available and it has become very apparent in the last three years if not before that the NHS is not fit for purpose.   NOT those at the sharp end, they are the ones having to struggle and take the flack. It is all down to pathetically poor management at the top and within the Civil Service ...... Service   Most wouldn't know the meaning of the word  Civil Gravy Train it should be called.

That's a whole different debate, we have to work with we have now not what we would like to have. Most European countries are in the same boat with Covid, and have different types of health care systems. 

[millrace]

42 minutes ago, ordnance said:

People get the flu jab each year why would Covid be any different, 

People get A (singular) flu jab each year not as its going every 3 mths im not anti vax but i doubt very much the human body could accept this continually.....

And we couldnt as a society shut the doctors chemist hospital staff etc to continually give these jabs..... its just not possible just like a cycle of lockdown!!....

[Charlie Anderson]

If those who have decided not to be vaccinated have made an educated and informed decision is there not a argument to say let's roll the dice and hope herd immunity works? Otherwise are we not going to be in an endless cycle of lockdowns?  Perhaps I have a over simplestic view but when does this end. 

 

 

[ordnance]

8 minutes ago, millrace said:

People get A (singular) flu jab each year not as its going every 3 mths im not anti vax but i doubt very much the human body could accept this continually.....

And we couldnt as a society shut the doctors chemist hospital staff etc to continually give these jabs..... its just not possible just like a cycle of lockdown!!....

 I think / hope better treatments antiviral drugs etc will be the way forward in treating Covid, along with vaccines maybe for the most vulnerable. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by ordnance

[Ultrastu]

I personally feel this omicron strain is the beginning of the end and is good news .

It's super duper contagious  and every one will or has already had it .that means it should then die out or reduce  and basically  just turn into a cold virus of old .

I really feel the coverment should just shut up and let it go, they absolutely  can't control it and shouldn't  inflict totally ineffective  jabs or restrictions on the population  .

 

[Charliedog]

4 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

I personally feel this omicron strain is the beginning of the end and is good news .

It's super duper contagious  and every one will or has already had it .that means it should then die out or reduce  and basically  just turn into a cold virus of old .

I really feel the coverment should just shut up and let it go, they absolutely  can't control it and shouldn't  inflict totally ineffective  jabs or restrictions on the population  .

 

ineffective is pretty debateable but i do feel if we can get through this winter then we should just learn to live with it

[ordnance]

24 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

I personally feel this omicron strain is the beginning of the end and is good news .

It's super duper contagious  and every one will or has already had it .that means it should then die out or reduce  and basically  just turn into a cold virus of old .

I really feel the coverment should just shut up and let it go, they absolutely  can't control it and shouldn't  inflict totally ineffective  jabs or restrictions on the population  .

 

And what would your plan be if the hospital system collapsed with Covid patients,  example no ICU beds that are needed for emergencies ?

Edited December 18, 2021 by ordnance

[Newbie to this]

53 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

I personally feel this omicron strain is the beginning of the end and is good news .

It's super duper contagious  and every one will or has already had it .that means it should then die out or reduce  and basically  just turn into a cold virus of old .

I really feel the coverment should just shut up and let it go, they absolutely  can't control it and shouldn't  inflict totally ineffective  jabs or restrictions on the population  .

 

💯%

[ordnance]

9 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

💯%

Same question. And what would your plan be if the hospital system collapsed with Covid patients,  example no ICU beds that are needed for emergencies ?

[Newbie to this]

That is purely hypothetical or should that be hysterical, there is no evidence that omicron is going to overwhelm any hospital system, in fact quite the opposite.

Why shouldn't we listen to those who have been dealing with omicron the longest, they are suggesting, that although more transmissible, omicron is far less severe.

[Stonepark]

2 hours ago, Charlie Anderson said:

If those who have decided not to be vaccinated have made an educated and informed decision is there not a argument to say let's roll the dice and hope herd immunity works? Otherwise are we not going to be in an endless cycle of lockdowns?  Perhaps I have a over simplestic view but when does this end. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Charlie Anderson said:

If those who have decided not to be vaccinated have made an educated and informed decision is there not a argument to say let's roll the dice and hope herd immunity works? Otherwise are we not going to be in an endless cycle of lockdowns?  Perhaps I have a over simplestic view but when does this end. 

 

 

Imperial College  London submission to Sage... notice how well Natural Immunity fares and the optimistic and pessimistic scenarios's for how long that lasts and the limited drop.

 

Compare this to the jabs, how they wane and now needing a jab every 3 months............

[ordnance]

Quote

Imperial College  London submission to Sage... notice how well Natural Immunity fares and the optimistic and pessimistic scenarios's for how long that lasts and the limited drop.

Has the game not moved on from that with Omicron, you could keep your natural immunity up by catching Covid repeatedly or vaccines, I know what one i would choose. 

 

How Omicron Evades Natural Immunity, Vaccination, And Monoclonal Antibody Treatments

Edited December 18, 2021 by ordnance

[Mice!]

50 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Why shouldn't we listen to those who have been dealing with omicron the longest, they are suggesting, that although more transmissible, omicron is far less severe.

Just watching the news and London Mayor has declared a major incident as the number of positive cases of Omicron is new daily high, that can't be good, even if its nothing like as serious there is bound to be a panic.

[ordnance]

Some people are missing the point that even if Omicron less severe there will be a lot more infections, a small percentage of a massive number is still a very large number. 

[39TDS]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

Just watching the news and London Mayor has declared a major incident as the number of positive cases of Omicron is new daily high, that can't be good, even if its nothing like as serious there is bound to be a panic.

Of course there is going to be panic, everything the media and government says or does appears designed to cause panic. The recent fuel crisis was a good example of how they do just that, there are no more tanker drivers than there were so how come there is fuel again? Simple, there never was a shortage as such it was the media induced panic. Of course there is a new daily high of Omicron what else was anybody expecting? They are also trying to ramp up the "Big Freeze" panic by announcing that on Dec 27 there will be up to 1cm of snow!

Edited December 18, 2021 by 39TDS

[Newbie to this]

Quote

In a WHO report released last month, the organisation said that of the 38 countries touched by the variant, none have reported Omicron-specific deaths.

Since then, it has spread rapidly, and one person in the UK has died with the new variant. 

Other countries have not yet recorded deaths or significant hospitalisation numbers.

So not until it gets to the UK, has Omicron been responsible (if it even was) for any deaths or significant hospitalisations. 

Wear your mask, if you so choose

get vaccinated, if you so choose

But most importantly, get on with living and I don't mean in fear like some.

Hell isolate, if you so choose, just stop expecting others to do the same.

[Stonepark]

2 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

So not until it gets to the UK, has Omicron been responsible (if it even was) for any deaths or significant

Gossip is that it was an end of life leukemia patient, again only tested positive within 28 days of sadly passing, not actually dying from the "dreaded Omicron".