Not seeing the target

[nicknsd1978]

Hi I have a used BSA Ultra SE 177, BSA essential 3-9x40 scope using airarms field pellets. I notice I am getting some inconsistent groups at 30m. Last group shot was 10 pellets in a 5p size group (was happy with that) but this was hard going seeing exactly where I was aiming/hitting. Wasnt until I collected the target afterwards that I realised this was a tight group. The groups before this were all over the place though. Doesn’t help that I have a terrible job seeing exactly where I am hitting even with magnification on scope turned up to 9. Was thinking of getting the Hawke fast mount 4-16x50 in the hope this would help me see the pellet impact at 30m. Tried shooting at 40m with current scope but didn't got a clue where the pellet was hitting as I just couldn’t see the impact let alone trying to focus on something at that distance. Any advice would be welcomed

[chrisjpainter]

When was the last time you had an eye test? Do you wear glasses or contacts to shoot?  I'd be looking at getting that sorted first. 30yds @ 9x mag should be plenty to be able to see the impact holes. It might be time for a check up to see if your sight's changed?

[Nuke]

Get a spotting scope och a pair of biniculars.

I zero my rifle at 100 m with a x6 scope and look att the group when I get to the target. Why do you need to see the impact point? 

/Markus

[bruno22rf]

You are using a budget scope, either upgrade or buy a spotting scope, ALDI have some in at the moment for £25 I think.

[Ultrastu]

It will also depend on your target .if you use white paper that's well lit the holes should show up fine .

If you use something dark  or a target with a big black center aim point then seeing a black shot hole is gonna  be very tricky .

Ps the bsa scopes aren't the best either ..

First sort your target .

Draw with market pen round a coin on a white card and try that .

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, as above , also I don't think the BSA scope has an adjustable diopter , an eye sight test and Hawk 3x9 X 40 half or mil dot reticule would be ok and these you can adjust the diopter to your eye sight

[nicknsd1978]

Ok brilliant. It was a black target I was shooting at. Ref eye test I only had one a few weeks since so i can rule that one out. I was expecting to be able to zoom in on the holes that were been made so, very much like the spotting scope idea. Maybe I was expecting too much from the scope on the gun

[Ultrastu]

I believe  also that there is no parrelax  adjustment  on the front objective lens on your scope  

It maybe that it's factory set at 50 or maybe 100 yds meaning that it's like when u look at a 30 yd target on 9x that the image is out of focus ? And you have to wind down to something like 6 x to get it clear ?? 

Ideally the parrelax (focus )  would be set around 30 - 35 yds for your .177 sub 12 .

This can be done on your scope by winding out wards the lens carrier on the objective lens .

Let me know if u want help doing this  ? 

Cheers 

 

[nicknsd1978]

Hi yes please I’m not 100% sure on what you mean…or would I be better just getting a new scope?

[Mice!]

Is your head alignment spot on, can you close and open your eye and still be on target?

I aim at red circles on a white background because you can see the impact points, although the Simmons I use has a thick cross hair so paper punching is hard work, but it's 3.5 x 10 x 50 and I can see I've hit a 10mm circle.

21 minutes ago, nicknsd1978 said:

better just getting a new scope

Your scope will limit you, a more expensive or better quality make would be a big improvement. 

[nicknsd1978]

Thank you, yes head alignment is ok as mentioned the last group was 5p size at 30m although it’s almost shooting blind. I want to be able to see exactly where it’s hitting and then be able to zoom in on that particular hole (ideally). I may just be expecting too much

[Ultrastu]

2 hours ago, nicknsd1978 said:

Hi yes please I’m not 100% sure on what you mean…or would I be better just getting a new scope?

Not necessarily  .

When you look at a 30 yd target on 9x is the image and the cross hairs both clear ? 

If not there are 2 things to adjust to make it so .

Do that first and let me know .

[Walker570]

11 hours ago, nicknsd1978 said:

Hi I have a used BSA Ultra SE 177, BSA essential 3-9x40 scope using airarms field pellets. I notice I am getting some inconsistent groups at 30m. Last group shot was 10 pellets in a 5p size group (was happy with that) but this was hard going seeing exactly where I was aiming/hitting. Wasnt until I collected the target afterwards that I realised this was a tight group. The groups before this were all over the place though. Doesn’t help that I have a terrible job seeing exactly where I am hitting even with magnification on scope turned up to 9. Was thinking of getting the Hawke fast mount 4-16x50 in the hope this would help me see the pellet impact at 30m. Tried shooting at 40m with current scope but didn't got a clue where the pellet was hitting as I just couldn’t see the impact let alone trying to focus on something at that distance. Any advice would be welcomed

As Ultrastu says do a thorough check on your adjustments.  I all fails then invest in one of the Hawke Airmax scopes with the side wheel adjustment and you will live in a different world. I have three of them set on my air rifles and 17hmr and they are brilliant for the the money.

[old man]

4 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

I believe  also that there is no parrelax  adjustment  on the front objective lens on your scope  

It maybe that it's factory set at 50 or maybe 100 yds meaning that it's like when u look at a 30 yd target on 9x that the image is out of focus ? And you have to wind down to something like 6 x to get it clear ?? 

Ideally the parrelax (focus )  would be set around 30 - 35 yds for your .177 sub 12 .

This can be done on your scope by winding out wards the lens carrier on the objective lens .

Let me know if u want help doing this  ? 

Cheers 

 

That's where i'd start.

[Mr.C]

Ditto. Buy a new Hawke 3-9x40 or whatever. I believe optics warehouse (without the space) are doing them for £90 including mounts, that the version with illuminated reticle. 

Some one once told me, "spend the money on the glass and the change on the rifle". Wish I'd listened. 

[nicknsd1978]

Hi yes When I look at a 30 yd target on 9x the image and the cross hairs both clear BUT the target is very small so would appear to be clear. When adjusting the eye piece though you can make the image bigger and in turn even more clear as you can see more detail but  the cross hairs then become blurred

[London Best]

8 minutes ago, nicknsd1978 said:

Hi yes When I look at a 30 yd target on 9x the image and the cross hairs both clear BUT the target is very small

Are you sure you are looking through the right end of the scope?

A one inch target seen through a 9x scope looks to be 9 inches across. At thirty yards that must look huge.

[Longbower]

Purchase some some shoot n see  splash targets   8 inch diameter , Cheap and really  obvious , when the pellets hit.

[Walker570]

On 30/12/2021 at 17:06, London Best said:

Are you sure you are looking through the right end of the scope?

A one inch target seen through a 9x scope looks to be 9 inches across. At thirty yards that must look huge.

Yes, I can't quite understand either.  There should be two adjustment rings. One which is on the edge of the eye piece normally which puts the crosshairs in focus for your eyes. Then if the scope has adjustable magnification there should be another adjustment ring forward of the eye piece marked in the designated powers of magnification and a line too which you align each of these. Now if the scope does not have paralax adjustment it will probably be set at 100yrds.  Firstly adjust your eye focus for the crosshairs and once they are crisp leave that alone as if the scope is working correctly that should not be affected by moving the magnification.  On high magnification on a non paralax scope, close objects can be out of focus, just ease the magnification back till the picture clears.    With the Hawke Airmax range with the side wheel adjustment this is not a problem as the view can be adjusted through the entire settings. Pity your not a biyt closer as I could probably sort things out for you.  North or south Nottingham ?

[Accuspell]

On 30/12/2021 at 00:39, nicknsd1978 said:

Hi I have a used BSA Ultra SE 177, BSA essential 3-9x40 scope using airarms field pellets. I notice I am getting some inconsistent groups at 30m. Last group shot was 10 pellets in a 5p size group (was happy with that) but this was hard going seeing exactly where I was aiming/hitting. Wasnt until I collected the target afterwards that I realised this was a tight group. The groups before this were all over the place though. Doesn’t help that I have a terrible job seeing exactly where I am hitting even with magnification on scope turned up to 9. Was thinking of getting the Hawke fast mount 4-16x50 in the hope this would help me see the pellet impact at 30m. Tried shooting at 40m with current scope but didn't got a clue where the pellet was hitting as I just couldn’t see the impact let alone trying to focus on something at that distance. Any advice would be welcomed

Most has already been suggested. The Essential is not that bad in daylight, but when the light gets dimpsy you will find it grains out very quickly - that is the sight picture will go like a kaleidoscope of coloured dots instead of giving a clear, crisp image. This is purely down to the quality of the lenses and coatings used. For shooting during normal daylight, provided the light source is not ahead of you that scope will be fine.

On the rear of the eyepiece there is an adjustment ring to focus the scope cross hairs to your eyes. Look at a blank background (the sky is good, but not the sun! Focus the crosshairs. The only other adjustment is the magnification range, from 3x - 9x. I set my scope on 6x and forget it unless I am shooting moving targets (4x) such as the 10m runnng boar, or rats in a gloomy building. The greater the magnification you use the less light that will get through, which is why on a really dimpsy day it is better to turn it down a bit and get a brighter image seperation.

Shooting your targets. It is BETTER if you can't see where your pellets are landing when you are shooting, that way you will concentrate on the aim point and not the distraction of the impact marks. Have a means of looking for the impacts seperately, even if that is just winding your magnification up on the scope.

Next tip, for good grouping, is to have your impacts NOT hitting your aiming mark, once your aiming point is obliterated, you cannot see it and you are then guessing where it is. I use a cross, not a circle, and place the target 5 - 8 yards further than my zero range. The pellets land low and therefor do not start to destroy the aiming cross. You get a much better idea of your grouping if you can use exactly the same aiming point each time, the cross aligns with the corsshair far better than trying to guesstimate the centre of a circle, it is very easy to be a pellet diameter out in your aiming point that way.

For marksmanship, you can use any aiming mark. A blank card cut from cereal packets is cheap and good stiff target material (the inside of some is off white, but most is grey). I often don't put an aiming point on it and just fire a pellet at the card and then use the pellet hole as my aim point. It is pure laziness! If you cannot see the pellet hole on blank card at 30 yards with 6x magnification then yes, it is the scope focus or your eyes. I bet you can, but not necessarily on a black circle. 

Keep at it, but I doubt you need to buy a new scope just yet.

[oldypigeonpopper]

On 30/12/2021 at 00:39, nicknsd1978 said:

Hi I have a used BSA Ultra SE 177, BSA essential 3-9x40 scope using airarms field pellets. I notice I am getting some inconsistent groups at 30m. Last group shot was 10 pellets in a 5p size group (was happy with that) but this was hard going seeing exactly where I was aiming/hitting. Wasnt until I collected the target afterwards that I realised this was a tight group. The groups before this were all over the place though. Doesn’t help that I have a terrible job seeing exactly where I am hitting even with magnification on scope turned up to 9. Was thinking of getting the Hawke fast mount 4-16x50 in the hope this would help me see the pellet impact at 30m. Tried shooting at 40m with current scope but didn't got a clue where the pellet was hitting as I just couldn’t see the impact let alone trying to focus on something at that distance. Any advice would be welcomed

Hello, lots of good advice, keep us posted how your getting on ??

[oldypigeonpopper]

8 minutes ago, Accuspell said:

Most has already been suggested. The Essential is not that bad in daylight, but when the light gets dimpsy you will find it grains out very quickly - that is the sight picture will go like a kaleidoscope of coloured dots instead of giving a clear, crisp image. This is purely down to the quality of the lenses and coatings used. For shooting during normal daylight, provided the light source is not ahead of you that scope will be fine.

On the rear of the eyepiece there is an adjustment ring to focus the scope cross hairs to your eyes. Look at a blank background (the sky is good, but not the sun! Focus the crosshairs. The only other adjustment is the magnification range, from 3x - 9x. I set my scope on 6x and forget it unless I am shooting moving targets (4x) such as the 10m runnng boar, or rats in a gloomy building. The greater the magnification you use the less light that will get through, which is why on a really dimpsy day it is better to turn it down a bit and get a brighter image seperation.

Shooting your targets. It is BETTER if you can't see where your pellets are landing when you are shooting, that way you will concentrate on the aim point and not the distraction of the impact marks. Have a means of looking for the impacts seperately, even if that is just winding your magnification up on the scope.

Next tip, for good grouping, is to have your impacts NOT hitting your aiming mark, once your aiming point is obliterated, you cannot see it and you are then guessing where it is. I use a cross, not a circle, and place the target 5 - 8 yards further than my zero range. The pellets land low and therefor do not start to destroy the aiming cross. You get a much better idea of your grouping if you can use exactly the same aiming point each time, the cross aligns with the corsshair far better than trying to guesstimate the centre of a circle, it is very easy to be a pellet diameter out in your aiming point that way.

For marksmanship, you can use any aiming mark. A blank card cut from cereal packets is cheap and good stiff target material (the inside of some is off white, but most is grey). I often don't put an aiming point on it and just fire a pellet at the card and then use the pellet hole as my aim point. It is pure laziness! If you cannot see the pellet hole on blank card at 30 yards with 6x magnification then yes, it is the scope focus or your eyes. I bet you can, but not necessarily on a black circle. 

Keep at it, but I doubt you need to buy a new scope just yet.

Hello, your right it does have an adjustable eye diopter so that's the first to look at 👍, one of my old Hawke scope would not match my eye sight so taped  a 37 mm X 2 camera magnification lens to the front and reduced the diopter by half, works ok now👍

Edited January 1, 2022 by oldypigeonpopper

[nicknsd1978]

Thanks for everyone’s advice, I am on the east side of Nottingham. Will mostly be using it for lamping at night (rabbits/rats) but obviously need to practice on the range through the day first though. Now Christmas is out the way I can get my head back in to it. Will hold fire with the new scope for now then until I get some more practice. Will have a good play around with it. I work near Rotherham and it’s a shame the South Yorkshire shooting club has shut down as they had a 30m indoor range

[ianspire]

If you have time, a trip upto Doncaster indoor range is worth a visit

[nicknsd1978]

Funny you should say that…I’m going some point through the week