Putin announces 'military operation' in Ukraine.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

So, the Russians have fired six cruise missiles (that’s $36,000,000 worth) from a submarine in The Black Sea at a city, Vinnytsia, on the far side of Ukraine. Two were shot down, one went who knows where, one hit a car park and killed a load of passers by, including two children so badly burned they are not identified and another chopped in half, and one hit a  private medical clinic, killing the people in the waiting room. The sixth hit the target!

The target, they say, was The Officer's House, a barracks where a meeting of senior Ukranian officers was being held, and they killed 70.

The Officers' House is a concert hall. The people they killed were sound engineers preparing for a pop concert later. There are web sites still selling tickets that haven't taken the place off the lists yet.

The Officers' House is a common name for social clubs and concert halls in Ukraine.

The stupidity, the futility, the waste of lives and money, is mind blowing.

The Russians will now come up with eight more preposterous stories. The first one is for their fans, who'll believe anything. The next eight are so there are ten stories floating about, and thus there is a 90% chance the none-too-engaged will first hear, and hence believe, one of their BS ones. 

There are real world Twitter feeds with the details and photos of the dead - young women, mothers, children and all non-military.

Now we wait for the usual suspects to blame the West for supplying Ukraine with armaments and the Ukraine for not surrendering, in fact, anybody but the insane warmongers that invaded Ukraine and fired those cruise missiles.

Excellent post. 
I saw footage of a dead toddler lying beside her pushchair in exactly the same type of white tights my daughter wore at that age. 
We should be rioting in the streets, but we’re all so comfortable we can’t be bothered. Not my war. 
I’m just hoping that one day that gangster Putin is made to suffer, but I doubt it. 

[Rim Fire]

How is this diffrent to the SAS thread i dont agree with either 

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

For which we have to pretend that the Ukrainian ministry of information is going to give an unbiased truthful account ?

Im pretty sure anyone who DELIBERATELY decided to fire all those rather expensive missiles at civilians , would be put up against a wall and shot.
But thats exactly what we are told (by Ukraine) it was , a deliberate attack on civilian infrastructure.
Or, someones lying.

 

So where did you get this portion of outrageous Russian propaganda ?
Link please.

You have nothing and nowhere to go other than the ‘well they all lie right?’ Even though there is no evidence that what the Ukrainians are saying is a lie and of course there’s the evidence, the posters advertising a concert, the cctv footage, the damage, the TV crews, the dead and so on.

And the best you have is foggy distractive nonsense.

There will be more on this in due course.

Even the professional pro Russian military Twitter accounts are calling this for the murderous incompetence that it is, but not you. 

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, Mungler said:

You have nothing and nowhere to go other than the ‘well they all lie right?’

OK , they all always tell the truth then ?
No wait, only the Ukrainians tell the truth right ?

Russians always lie , because well, theyre Russians right ?
Western media always reports fairly and unbiased news about Ukraine yes ?
Think about it, rather than just grabbing the first morsel that fits your thinking.

4 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Even though there is no evidence that what the Ukrainians are saying is a lie and of course there’s the evidence,

Hang on a minute... You said there was 70 + dead to start with , and when pressed where you got this , you said the Russians !
You cant just pick the first morsel that suits your agenda, no matter where it comes from !

5 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Even the professional pro Russian military Twitter accounts are calling this for the murderous incompetence that it is, but not you. 

Why are you even checking pro Russian twitter accounts , theyre all liars and murderers right ?

You . Cant . Pick . And . Choose . What . Information . Suits . Your . Bias .

[Mungler]

2 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

OK , they all always tell the truth then ?
No wait, only the Ukrainians tell the truth right ?

Russians always lie , because well, theyre Russians right ?
Western media always reports fairly and unbiased news about Ukraine yes ?
Think about it, rather than just grabbing the first morsel that fits your thinking.

Hang on a minute... You said there was 70 + dead to start with , and when pressed where you got this , you said the Russians !
You cant just pick the first morsel that suits your agenda, no matter where it comes from !

Why are you even checking pro Russian twitter accounts , theyre all liars and murderers right ?

You . Cant . Pick . And . Choose . What . Information . Suits . Your . Bias .

 

More of the same then. 
 

I look at all the evidence, all the Twitter accounts and aggregators as well as the news sources to form a view. You should try it. 

[Rewulf]

50 minutes ago, Mungler said:

More of the same then

Not at all. 

 

50 minutes ago, Mungler said:

 

I look at all the evidence, all the Twitter accounts and aggregators as well as the news sources to form a view. You should try it

After 80 pages of debate, you're still struggling with the concept of people who don't align with your exact opinion on the matter, somehow being in league with the Russians! 

There is no black and white in this. 

The only reality is the suffering of the Ukrainian people. The rest is lies, deceit, manipulation and profit. 

Be content that your analysis is what you are happy with. And let others be happy with theirs. 

Trying to score morality points, where there is so much waste of life and suffering is never good. 

[Mungler]

There is fact and there is truth.

Not your version of the truth or the Kremlin truth mind you.

The truth is Putin didn’t need to invade. The truth is, this would be over tomorrow if Russian soldiers went back over their border and withdrew. The truth is 6 guided missiles unnecessarily killed a load of Ukrainian women and children today, and the truth is that that was not because of anything the west, nato or zelensky did, that was a result of whoever in the Russian war machine pressed the fire button. 

[clangerman]

15 minutes ago, Mungler said:

There is fact and there is truth.

Not your version of the truth or the Kremlin truth mind you.

The truth is Putin didn’t need to invade. The truth is, this would be over tomorrow if Russian soldiers went back over their border and withdrew. The truth is 6 guided missiles unnecessarily killed a load of Ukrainian women and children today, and the truth is that that was not because of anything the west, nato or zelensky did, that was a result of whoever in the Russian war machine pressed the fire button. 

let’s not miss out the biggest truth of all if the west was not fuelling the fire it would probably be over already so some of their blood is on our hands! 

[12gauge82]

I don't know how anyone can defender Russian, strip this argument back and it comes down to a simple fact, Russia invaded Ukraine, there is no excuse for that. 

[Dave-G]

1 minute ago, clangerman said:

let’s not miss out the biggest truth of all if the west was not fuelling the fire it would probably be over already so some of their blood is on our hands! 

So we shouldn't help them?

[Mungler]

Just now, clangerman said:

let’s not miss out the biggest truth of all if the west was not fuelling the fire it would probably be over already so some of their blood is on our hands! 

That’s classic victim blaming.

If I didn’t bother locking my front door at night then there would be no chance of a burglar breaking their foot whilst trying to kick it in. 

Just now, 12gauge82 said:

I don't know how anyone can defender Russian, strip this argument back and it comes down to a simple fact, Russia invaded Ukraine, there is no excuse for that. 

Thank you.

I thought I had wandered into some strange alternative reality.

[ordnance]

4 minutes ago, clangerman said:

let’s not miss out the biggest truth of all if the west was not fuelling the fire it would probably be over already so some of their blood is on our hands! 

So you would rather Russia had a easy time invading and imposing their rule on Ukraine. The fact is If the UK did have help, weapons , food etc during WW2 the Nazi's could have taken over the UK. We're the countries helping fueling the fire, should they not have helped and let the Nazi's get on with it 🤔

[Scully]

50 minutes ago, clangerman said:

let’s not miss out the biggest truth of all if the west was not fuelling the fire it would probably be over already so some of their blood is on our hands! 

Serious question….do you ever ever ever ever stop to think through what it is you’re about to type? 

[clangerman]

5 minutes ago, Scully said:

Serious question….do you ever ever ever ever stop to think through what it is you’re about to type? 

you might get a refund on that worm but you won’t get a bite! 

[Scully]

11 minutes ago, clangerman said:

you might get a refund on that worm but you won’t get a bite! 

Like I said, it was a serious question, but you can’t even back up these one off comments with a cogent response or explanation! 🤷‍♂️

[Mungler]

8 minutes ago, Scully said:

Like I said, it was a serious question, but you can’t even back up these one off comments with a cogent response or explanation! 🤷‍♂️

The Russians launch 6 cruise missiles into an urban area and kill a whole load of women and children and there’s blood on our hands for this act, apparently. No mention of whoever pressed the button, no harsh words for the regime controlling that weaponry. Not one.

The world has truly gone mad. You just can’t argue with that level of pig ignorant stupidity.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Mungler

[Scully]

8 minutes ago, Mungler said:

The Russians launch 6 cruise missiles into an urban area and kill a whole load of women and children and there’s blood on our hands for this act, apparently. No mention of whoever pressed the button, no harsh words for the regime controlling that weaponry. Not one.

The world has truly gone mad. You just can’t argue with that level of pig ignorant stupidity.

Quite. I just shake my head in bewilderment at times. 

[Mungler]

5 minutes ago, Scully said:

Quite. I just shake my head in bewilderment at times. 

Other people’s truths eh, which we’re supposed to acknowledge and respect 😆

[Scully]

15 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Other people’s truths eh, which we’re supposed to acknowledge and respect 😆

🤷‍♂️ I feel your pain. 

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, Scully said:

🤷‍♂️ I feel your pain. 

A number of us do, but I'm beyond arguing.  The essence of the whole conflict is this;

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

The truth is Putin didn’t need to invade. The truth is, this would be over tomorrow if Russian soldiers went back over their border and withdrew.

 

[Scully]

Exactly. 

[clangerman]

20 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Other people’s truths eh, which we’re supposed to acknowledge and respect 😆

and where is YOUR respect? would you like to explain what gives you the right to call people PIG IGNORANT and STUPID what makes you so superior you can abuse people while everyone else sticks to giving a opinion enlighten us 

[Stonepark]

6 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

A number of us do, but I'm beyond arguing.  The essence of the whole conflict is this;

 

The truth is, if the Western Neocons had never caused a revolution\coup in 2014, none of this would ever have happened and Ukraine would have continued to be a stable country allied towards Russia and acting as a gas transport hub to Europe and no one would have died unnecessarily since 2014........

[JohnfromUK]

22 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

allied towards Russia

Which is not what the majority of Ukrainians want.

[Stonepark]

46 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Which is not what the majority of Ukrainians want.

Actually it is, that is why they democratically elected a government and president who the Western powers then organised a revolution against..... just because a large minority with local superiority in Western Ukraine including Kiev want something, it doesn't mean they should get it, over the majority of the remainder of the population, mainly concentrated in the east.

 

Look at Scotland, the SNP claim Scots want independence but whilst they get elected to government, they are elected by a concentrated minority, so when a referendum was called in 2014, the Indy side lost, because they are still a minority and the Unionists hold a majority.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Stonepark