Next general election

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Spoilt papers are not counted and a complete waste of everyone's time.

In fact spoiled ballot papers are counted (in UK General Election anyway) and reported, but not allocated to any candidate.  You are absolutely right that they are a complete waste of everyone's time.

[Newbie to this]

6 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

In fact spoiled ballot papers are counted (in UK General Election anyway) and reported, but not allocated to any candidate.  You are absolutely right that they are a complete waste of everyone's time.

Thanks for the correction, I thought they just went straight in the bin.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Newbie to this

[Jim Neal]

Abstention from voting can cause a few heated discussions...... not that we have such things on this forum of course

Some people will point out that generations of your countrymen before you have died in order to preserve the democracy you enjoy today.  They're not wrong.

Abstention is seen by many as putting two fingers up to the whole political system, but many people will encourage abstainers to go and spoil the paper instead.  Why?  Because by doing so at least you're using your right to participate in an electoral process.

The spoilt papers are counted, it sends a message, that's the argument for spoiling vs abstaining.

A slightly interesting website:

https://www.votenone.org.uk/menu.html

Edited March 28, 2022 by Jim Neal

[Robden]

6 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

Abstention from voting can cause a few heated discussions...... not that we have such things on this forum of course

Some people will point out that generations of your countrymen before you have died in order to preserve the democracy you enjoy today.  They're not wrong.

Abstention is seen by many as putting two fingers up to the whole political system, but many people will encourage abstainers to go and spoil the paper instead.  Why?  Because by doing so at least you're using your right to participate in an electoral process.

The spoilt papers are counted, it sends a message, that's the argument for spoiling vs abstaining.

A slightly interesting website:

https://www.votenone.org.uk/menu.html

Not so sure about that. 

A friend of mine - sadly no longer with us - used to be asked to help out with the counting of votes on election nights. She asked what should she do with the papers that had rude/swear words on them, and was told to "bin them."

[Munzy]

17 minutes ago, Robden said:

Not so sure about that. 

A friend of mine - sadly no longer with us - used to be asked to help out with the counting of votes on election nights. She asked what should she do with the papers that had rude/swear words on them, and was told to "bin them."

As has been said; at General, Unitary and County Council elections, spoilt papers are counted AND displayed to all candidates during the count. This is to allow a candidate to question whether a paper is truly spoilt or in fact a legitimate vote for them.

Candidates (or their agents) will see first hand what is written on a spoilt paper and therefore I think it’s a very strong way of protesting against political systems/political parties/candidates if you’re not wanting to actually vote.

 

[discobob]

7 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

https://www.votenone.org.uk/menu.html

Very interesting and could be where I will be throwing my vote next time

 

[Newbie to this]

Does anyone really think that those elected will care one iota that some (even if it is the majority of people) decided to spoil their ballots.

They'll be too busy gorging at the trough.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Newbie to this

[Robden]

44 minutes ago, Munzy said:

As has been said; at General, Unitary and County Council elections, spoilt papers are counted AND displayed to all candidates during the count. This is to allow a candidate to question whether a paper is truly spoilt or in fact a legitimate vote for them.

Candidates (or their agents) will see first hand what is written on a spoilt paper and therefore I think it’s a very strong way of protesting against political systems/political parties/candidates if you’re not wanting to actually vote.

 

So what about the papers that aren't used (not bothered to vote), are they displayed as well?

 

[discobob]

8 minutes ago, Robden said:

So what about the papers that aren't used (not bothered to vote), are they displayed as well?

 

Usually in the turnout percentage - eligible voters minus the amount voted gives you that

History Debunked (YouTube) has also done a thing recently about family voting for some "members" of our society - mainly focused on Tower Hamlets but you can bet that it is also happening in other areas of the country as well

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, Robden said:

So what about the papers that aren't used (not bothered to vote), are they displayed as well?

 

Many years ago, I was invited to witness/referee the count process.  It was a local election, not a General Election, and I can't remember if it was County or District.  The way it worked was this;

• Room full of long tables, counters sat at each table.  Ballot boxes are emptied onto the tables and papers spread among counters.
• Initial process is to unfold papers and examine to ensure that are 'valid' - i.e. correctly completed (one 'mark' clearly against a candidate) and no other spurious markings.  Any that fail at this stage are 'spoiled papers'.
• Valid papers are then sorted into piles for the individual candidates.
• The piles for each candidate are then counted.
• The counts from different tables are added up and passed to the returning officer.

The witnesses and referees can examine any part of the process.  I don't recall any attention being paid to the spoiled papers - which were just that - a (small) pile of spoiled papers.  I have no recollection of whether the majority were blank, had votes for more than one candidate, or had additional marks/writing, and in that instance, I don't believe the total number of spoiled papers was large enough to influence the outcome.

[Robden]

22 minutes ago, discobob said:

Usually in the turnout percentage - eligible voters minus the amount voted gives you that

History Debunked (YouTube) has also done a thing recently about family voting for some "members" of our society - mainly focused on Tower Hamlets but you can bet that it is also happening in other areas of the country as well

What I'm getting at is, if the unused papers aren't displayed, and some or most 'spoilt' papers are binned, then they would just be added into the turnout percentages. 

[Smokersmith]

I can’t think of anything more pointless than spoiling your ballot paper.

[discobob]

@RobdenNot quite sure what you are getting at. The number of spoiled papers are counted and are available in the reports - so yes - they would be counted within the turnout percentages.

2 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

I can’t think of anything more pointless than spoiling your ballot paper.

Some people counted voting UKIP as akin to spoiling your ballot paper for some time but eventually it had enough momentum to create a change

[toxo]

I absolutely despair at you guys, mostly tories who are desperately trying to find an excuse for voting this lot in again after their performance this time around.They're almost on a par with Putin inasmuch as they can do whatever they like no matter how bad and get away with it. Even Sunak who I was beginning to like has let everyone down but you can have some jam in the election year. This is what they always do, hit you hard now to build up the jam for an election year. As far as looking after the populace, they're pathetic.

I'm not saying the other lot are any better but I don't see how you can condemn them before they've had a chance. As for voting for one party over another because you have a gun. REALLY?

Watch for the Reform party coming up on the rails. Farage is on GBNews in the evening and the more I see of him the more I'm sure that he at least sounds like a proper politician. Don't like everything he stands for especially his alignment with Donald Chump but he'll get my vote if he stands.

[Mice!]

14 minutes ago, toxo said:

I absolutely despair at you guys, mostly tories who are desperately trying to find an excuse for voting this lot in again after their performance this time around.They're almost on a par with Putin inasmuch as they can do whatever they like no matter how bad and get away with it. Even Sunak who I was beginning to like has let everyone down but you can have some jam in the election year. This is what they always do, hit you hard now to build up the jam for an election year. As far as looking after the populace, they're pathetic.

I'm not saying the other lot are any better but I don't see how you can condemn them before they've had a chance. As for voting for one party over another because you have a gun. REALLY?

Watch for the Reform party coming up on the rails. Farage is on GBNews in the evening and the more I see of him the more I'm sure that he at least sounds like a proper politician. Don't like everything he stands for especially his alignment with Donald Chump but he'll get my vote if he stands.

Probably the funniest comment of the year.

Who hasn't had a chance Labour? If you thought things were bad during covid with the Tories running the show, just imagine how it would have been under Labour.

Comparing the Tories to Putin is comical. 

And as always the Farage comment,  easy to sound good without needing to back anything up.

Finally,  why not vote on who will effect your shooting the least, whoever is in power will tax you, you wouldn't deliberately vote for something that inconveniences you.

[oowee]

26 minutes ago, Mice! said:

 

Finally,  why not vote on who will effect your shooting the least, whoever is in power will tax you, you wouldn't deliberately vote for something that inconveniences you.

That in a nut shell is why UK plc is in such decline. We are offered an array of sweets and choose the one that we think will be the tastiest with limited understanding of the consequences of that choice. Case in point is the current administration the party of freedoms and low taxation which has overseen the most onerous restriction of freedoms and introduced the highest level of taxation seen in peace time. 

If ever there was a time to change our electoral system its now. 

 

[Newbie to this]

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

If ever there was a time to change our electoral system its now. 

This I can agree with.

[toxo]

53 minutes ago, oowee said:

That in a nut shell is why UK plc is in such decline. We are offered an array of sweets and choose the one that we think will be the tastiest with limited understanding of the consequences of that choice. Case in point is the current administration the party of freedoms and low taxation which has overseen the most onerous restriction of freedoms and introduced the highest level of taxation seen in peace time. 

If ever there was a time to change our electoral system its now. 

 

Spot on!

[toxo]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

Who hasn't had a chance Labour? If you thought things were bad during covid with the Tories running the show, just imagine how it would have been under Labour.

What a stupid statement! You don't consider the tories have had their chance?

Why would I waste my time even thinking about how any of the parties WOULDA/COULDA?

And as always the Farage comment,  easy to sound good without needing to back anything up.

Another stupid statement. The man has money. He doesn't  need politics. He is a genuine guy who got us through Brexit almost singlehandedly. I wish bojo had a fraction of his passion toward his country.

Finally,  why not vote on who will effect your shooting the least, whoever is in power will tax you, you wouldn't deliberately vote for something that inconveniences you.

Because you're supposed to be an adult voting for the good of the country.

 

[discobob]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

That in a nut shell is why UK plc is in such decline. We are offered an array of sweets and choose the one that we think will be the tastiest with limited understanding of the consequences of that choice. Case in point is the current administration the party of freedoms and low taxation which has overseen the most onerous restriction of freedoms and introduced the highest level of taxation seen in peace time. 

If ever there was a time to change our electoral system its now. 

 

Agreed - prime example - the green agenda - yes it needs to be done but they are throwing the baby out with the bathwater

[Mice!]

25 minutes ago, toxo said:

 

As someone who works for a living,  has a house and hobbies and wants a future for his kids I see the Tories as the best option,  Labour who are supposed to be the party for the working person are far from it, there more like the party of benefits,  that's my opinion and why I vote the way I do.

I'm sure Boris and Co would have had two great years if it hadn't been for covid, but I still think they've done well, and far better than Labour would have done.

It's fine to want another system,  but we haven't got one , we've got what we've got.

Farage did push through Brexit, no doubts but I doubt he'll do anything else, he likes talking,  the publicity and calling people out, its easy when you don't have to back anything up.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Labour WERE once the party of the working man. NOT these days!

[discobob]

10 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Labour WERE once the party of the working man. NOT these days!

It's a shame that a lot of people in Wales don't realize this

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 minutes ago, discobob said:

It's a shame that a lot of people in Wales don't realize this

That is unfortunately just what Labour count on in many areas.

The "my father voted labour so I will vote labour" unthinking solidarity.

[discobob]

6 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

That is unfortunately just what Labour count on in many areas.

The "my father voted labour so I will vote labour" unthinking solidarity.

My father, grandfather etc voted Labour - in fact in St Helens a red rock would be elected if it stood, but I have voted Cons all my life - although last time it was through gritted teeth - and this time I am totally at a loss now