Eley pro eco wads - awful!

[harkom]

Where's Connor...??? Seems to be very quiet on this topic?

[Scully]

1 hour ago, harkom said:

Where's Connor...??? Seems to be very quiet on this topic?

Who’s Connor? 

[lksopener]

Yep our experience too, the wad isn’t right.

 

cut one open it’s a floppy soft PVA type wad, it’s in no way conducive to producing good patterns. 
 

I’d give Hulls hydrowad a go, it’s a rigid type wad which won’t dissolve as quick but will definitely hold a pattern. 
 

Eley have always been my least favourite cartridge manufacturer, they are miles behind Hull and Gamebore. 

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, lksopener said:

Eley have always been my least favourite cartridge manufacturer, they are miles behind Hull and Gamebore. 

I agree. But in all this disappointment I'm just glad we had BASC:

https://basc.org.uk/a-joint-statement-on-the-future-of-shotgun-ammunition-for-live-quarry-shooting/

Quote

In consideration of wildlife, the environment and to ensure a market for the healthiest game products, at home and abroad, we wish to see an end to both lead and single-use plastics in ammunition used by those taking all live quarry with shotguns within five years.

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by enfieldspares

[Ultrastu]

13 hours ago, Scully said:

Who’s Connor? 

Connor mac cleod of the clan mac cleod, born 1518 - Glen finnan , deep in the Scottish Highlands. 

Perhaps  ?

[Sweet11-87]

ive gotten through a few slabs. and ive had no isse with them with a 1/4 choke i was folding things up no issue.  but you need to read the small print and get an idea of what youre looking to do. its size 3 steel shot thats fine for standard proof guns and moving at 1230fps so they start slow and slow down quicker than lead and they for sure took some getting used too. they have their place, its probably the cheapest and was the first avalible option if you want to shoot an older gun at a none plastic non toxic shoot. and the recoil is fair compaired to other 32g steel.

But if the target is close enough to hear the shot hitting but isnt killing thats an issue  theyre not that soft. id for sure be contacting eley. you may have stored them perfect but theyve been about between maxam factory in spain and your house they may have gotten damp and that could be dangerous.

[Scully]

4 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Connor mac cleod of the clan mac cleod, born 1518 - Glen finnan , deep in the Scottish Highlands. 

Perhaps  ?

Ah, thanks. That’s cleared that up then. 🙂👍

[London Best]

2 hours ago, Sweet11-87 said:

 

But if the target is close enough to hear the shot hitting but isnt killing thats an issue  

With respect, with experience you might learn that when you hear pellets strike a bird then you have only hit wing flight feathers. You cannot hear pellets strike body feathers.

[Ultrastu]

Your only gonna hear pellet strikes when shot through a silenced gun .

Often there is a sound reflection off a bird (especially big crows )  that can sound like a hit but probably isn't as it flys off  with no feathers out . 

 

[London Best]

1 hour ago, Ultrastu said:

Your only gonna hear pellet strikes when shot through a silenced gun .

Often there is a sound reflection off a bird (especially big crows )  that can sound like a hit but probably isn't as it flys off  with no feathers out . 

 

You can certainly hear pellets strike goose/duck wing feathers, “silenced gun” or not.

Well, I could years ago when I could hear.

[Poor Shot]

7 hours ago, Sweet11-87 said:

ive gotten through a few slabs. and ive had no isse with them with a 1/4 choke i was folding things up no issue.  but you need to read the small print and get an idea of what youre looking to do. its size 3 steel shot thats fine for standard proof guns and moving at 1230fps so they start slow and slow down quicker than lead and they for sure took some getting used too. they have their place, its probably the cheapest and was the first avalible option if you want to shoot an older gun at a none plastic non toxic shoot. and the recoil is fair compaired to other 32g steel.

But if the target is close enough to hear the shot hitting but isnt killing thats an issue  theyre not that soft. id for sure be contacting eley. you may have stored them perfect but theyve been about between maxam factory in spain and your house they may have gotten damp and that could be dangerous.

1230 FPS is quite slow actually. Slower than the Eley Select clay cartridge favoured by a lot of beginners and youngsters due to its low recoil and noise.

I'd have thought steel is best served as fast as you can get it?

That being said, on the last syndicate shoot I was using a little known steel cartridge produced in the UK which has an advertised speed of 1650 FPS with 30g 5 shot. They certainly move fast (As shown by the comparatively little lead they required on a 40 yard fast crossing clay compared to the usual Hull compx I use) but they lack power. 3 of the 4 birds shot that day with those cartridges were runners. One bird being hit at approximately 35 yards which proceeded to fold in the air with a spaff of feathers to exaggerate. A definite center pattern hit. He smashed into the ground like a downed aircraft only to flap around a bit, right himself and then take off running across the field behind. He was eventually retrieved and dispatched.

On later examination it appeared that the steel shot performed very poorly with a lot of it sitting just under the skin and quite shallow into the beast meat and belly cavity. I think only the pellets penetrating the neck area really brought him down. He'd have flown on and dropped out of sight otherwise.

Same day but next drive I took my 28 gauge and dropped a bird (the only bird that came over my peg) dead in the air with a 21g 6 lead shot. Roughly the same height, same speed and presentation. Both nicely sized cock birds as well.

More evidence required I know.

A week prior with the same steel cartridges I downed a Teal flushed from a reen down on the marsh with the dog. I got him on the third shot so he must have been at least 40 yards away by then. Looked a good shot, it certainly fell like a bird dead in the air. It then proceeded to jump up before the dog could get to it and flutter its way to open water where it dived never to be seen again.

I'm yet to be convinced that regular, everyday (70mm) steel shot cartridges are effective enough to be humain on live quarry.

Apart from the 3" and 3.5" magnum cartridges with a lot of large shot moving very very fast. I wouldn't fancy shooting 100's of them on a driven day though and best reserved for occasional shots at ducks and geese on the marsh.

I've got a driven duck day coming up where I've chosen the Gamebore Dark Storm Precision Steel biowad cartridges to try out.

[archi]

I have used few of the empire steel 29g 5s through a tight choke and whilst not used them greatly have shot a couple of really high/long pigeons that were definitely dead.

I don’t think the pellet size is ideal for duck or pheasant and use eley lightening. 32g or 36g 3s and they do work well but like all steel you need to be up the front end

[Jimbo yorks]

To cure the problem I've asked someone I know who's in the business.

Got myself some 32 gram 4 in 3" flavour doing about 1600 fps.

That should bring them down!

Speed kills with steel in general. If I knew the eleys were that slow I would never of purchased them.

[Scully]

11 hours ago, Jimbo yorks said:

To cure the problem I've asked someone I know who's in the business.

Got myself some 32 gram 4 in 3" flavour doing about 1600 fps.

That should bring them down!

Speed kills with steel in general. If I knew the eleys were that slow I would never of purchased them.

That’s a shame as I’m a big fan of Eley cartridges. I use their Select cartridges for clays and Pigeon Select for decoying, both with great results. 

[Stephen-H]

Picked this box up of there 32gram 3's Pro eco about 12 months ago from mickley Hall they were a sort of bin ends sale with other boxes of cartridges I got at the time. I'm still yet to try them after reading some of the posts on here it is a bit worrying with the age & wads possibly breaking down. I presume they are standard steel & not high performance can't find anything on the box stating High performance so I imagine 1/4 & 1/2 choke would be fine & just check the barrels after a shot for possible wad problems 

[Scully]

59 minutes ago, Stephen-H said:

Picked this box up of there 32gram 3's Pro eco about 12 months ago from mickley Hall they were a sort of bin ends sale with other boxes of cartridges I got at the time. I'm still yet to try them after reading some of the posts on here it is a bit worrying with the age & wads possibly breaking down. I presume they are standard steel & not high performance can't find anything on the box stating High performance so I imagine 1/4 & 1/2 choke would be fine & just check the barrels after a shot for possible wad problems 

Are No 3 shot not classified as HP? 

[8 shot]

2 minutes ago, Scully said:

Are No 3 shot not classified as HP? 

Read the bottom line of the top of the box !

[Scully]

8 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

Read the bottom line of the top of the box !

I have, what about it? 

[8 shot]

TO BE USED ONLY IN STEEL PROOF GUNS. So clearly not an HP Load  

[Scully]

5 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

TO BE USED ONLY IN STEEL PROOF GUNS. So clearly not an HP Load  

Really? It makes no difference to me what it’s classified as, as I’d still use them, but are you sure you’ve got that second sentence right? 
HP is a steel shot load spec’. 

[Jimbo yorks]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

Really? It makes no difference to me what it’s classified as, as I’d still use them, but are you sure you’ve got that second sentence right? 
HP is a steel shot load spec’. 

I believe from now reading up that their shot size 3 isn't actually a true 3 in steel.

It also sounds like they keep the velocity down along with shot size to keep withing the "standard steel" guidelines.

 

[8 shot]

HP loads have to be marked on the box and cartridge. Shot size will be larger than #4 shot AND have a greater load than 32g.

[Sweet11-87]

3 hours ago, Scully said:

Are No 3 shot not classified as HP? 

usually yes  the common practice for standard steel is 4 shot or smaller and no more than half choke but these are 3s and are not HP

"As a ‘Standard CIP Proofed’ load, the Eley VIP Steel Pro Eco cartridge is also suitable for use in most guns on the market."

Edited November 26, 2022 by Sweet11-87

[Ultrastu]

Seams to me that the best argument for not going to steel and away from lead  is all the confusion about  steel and chokes and super steel etc .

If  most the very experienced people on this forum are in doubt  how does the average shooter stand a chance .? 

 

[wymberley]

What has changed regarding the use of steel shot - and in particular any legislative change - that has seemingly - I can’t seem to find it - caused the comprehensive piece by BASC which made everything perfectly clear to be removed?