retromlc Posted November 23, 2022 Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 I emailed the Birmingham proof house today about my gun circa 1999, it was teague choked in 2002 and asked what the stamps and records reveal, emailed me very quickly to say STD steel and lead, result!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 23, 2022 Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 As long as you're happy, the majority of us work these things out without emailing the Proof House! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retromlc Posted November 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 Well at least if I ever go to sell it I can prove it's steel proofed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted November 23, 2022 Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 18 minutes ago, retromlc said: Well at least if I ever go to sell it I can prove it's steel proofed. Are you sure? If it’s proofed for lead it means you can use standard steel. It doesn’t mean it has been steel proofed unless I am completely mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 23, 2022 Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) Have to say I'm a tad confused - although it must be said that this is easily done - but I thought that there was only one steel proof - HP with the fleur de lys and anything else is nitro proof albeit at differing levels (putting to one side black powder) which includes STD steel but not specifically. EDIT: Sorry, Dave we clashed but we do agree. Edited November 23, 2022 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 23, 2022 Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, wymberley said: but we do agree And I agree as well. Standard nitro proof - allows lead and standard steel (subject to usual case length, loads etc. limits) HP Proof (Fleur de Lis mark) - allows for HP steel loads (in addition to normal loads. Very unfortunately it is often termed "Steel Proof" which is very misleading because it is a supplementary proof (i.e. in addition to and above nitro proof) which allows the use of HP steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hofk Posted November 23, 2022 Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 I would think having been Teague Choked proofed for lead but would include Standard Steel with the right chokes fitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 23, 2022 Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 47 minutes ago, retromlc said: Well at least if I ever go to sell it I can prove it's steel proofed. As others have said, it isn’t steel shot proofed unless it has a fleur de lys stamp on it. ANY nitro proofed gun is capable of standard steel, as is yours. However, have a look at your chokes, Teague may have proofed them for steel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted November 23, 2022 Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 hour ago, retromlc said: I emailed the Birmingham proof house today about my gun circa 1999, it was teague choked in 2002 and asked what the stamps and records reveal, emailed me very quickly to say STD steel and lead, result!!! Yep! If it passed proof for lead after 1954 and the choke is less than a certain degree it'll be OK for standard steel. But what it won't be is "proofed for steel". There is a difference as others have said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 23, 2022 Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 34 minutes ago, enfieldspares said: Yep! If it passed proof for lead after 1954 and the choke is less than a certain degree it'll be OK for standard steel. But what it won't be is "proofed for steel". There is a difference as others have said. Standard steel can be used through any choke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted November 23, 2022 Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 I was told recently by a gun dealer that they were reluctant to take in part ex any gun without it being specifically steel proofed - with the fleur de lys. He said buyers wanted the "superior" proof mark. What he omitted to say is that this was never a feature when they were selling guns, without the fleur de lys. It's like the emperor's new clothes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted November 23, 2022 Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 22 minutes ago, Gordon R said: I was told recently by a gun dealer that they were reluctant to take in part ex any gun without it being specifically steel proofed - with the fleur de lys. He said buyers wanted the "superior" proof mark. What he omitted to say is that this was never a feature when they were selling guns, without the fleur de lys. It's like the emperor's new clothes. I'm just grateful we have people like BASC. https://basc.org.uk/a-joint-statement-on-the-future-of-shotgun-ammunition-for-live-quarry-shooting/ Quote In consideration of wildlife, the environment and to ensure a market for the healthiest game products, at home and abroad, we wish to see an end to both lead and single-use plastics in ammunition used by those taking all live quarry with shotguns within five years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted November 23, 2022 Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, enfieldspares said: I'm just grateful we have people like BASC. Yes indeed.......we are very lucky to have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retromlc Posted November 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2022 Thanks for the replies, we all know any gun can shoot steel up to 1/2 choke, but it's an argument from a dealer to kick you in the trade-in nutz, "it's not steel proofed" and ill informed keyboard snipers influencing private individuals, but all I was saying is I have an email stating it, it's a result from that perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robden Posted November 24, 2022 Report Share Posted November 24, 2022 Can someone, with real world experience and not anecdotal hearsay off the tinternet, explain please? The difference between standard steel and HP steel and why it shouldn't be used with certain chokes? TIA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeper96 Posted November 24, 2022 Report Share Posted November 24, 2022 48 minutes ago, retromlc said: Thanks for the replies, we all know any gun can shoot steel up to 1/2 choke, but it's an argument from a dealer to kick you in the trade-in nutz, "it's not steel proofed" and ill informed keyboard snipers influencing private individuals, but all I was saying is I have an email stating it, it's a result from that perspective. But it’s not “steel proofed” it’s nitro proofed like the majority of guns and can shoot any lead or standard steel loads (using correct chokes) as can any of the other nitro proofed guns. A “steel” proofed gun as mentioned by others has the fluer de lyse markings and can shoot the high performance steel loads. all that email has told you is that your gun underwent a proofing procedure as required by UK law to allow it to be sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 24, 2022 Report Share Posted November 24, 2022 40 minutes ago, Robden said: Can someone, with real world experience and not anecdotal hearsay off the tinternet, explain please? The difference between standard steel and HP steel and why it shouldn't be used with certain chokes? TIA. There is a guide here https://www.aabrownandsons.com/prooftable.html This is from A.A. Brown who are genuine 'true gunmakers' and it is a small business run by Robin Brown who is a 'hands on' gunmaker. Like everything - there are different opinions - but this is from a genuine hands on gunmaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 24, 2022 Report Share Posted November 24, 2022 45 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: There is a guide here https://www.aabrownandsons.com/prooftable.html This is from A.A. Brown who are genuine 'true gunmakers' and it is a small business run by Robin Brown who is a 'hands on' gunmaker. Like everything - there are different opinions - but this is from a genuine hands on gunmaker. They start by stating there is much confusion regarding the use of steel shot, and they’ve simply added to it. Where to start unravelling this load of nonsense? BASC ( following consultation with cartridge manufactures one assumes ) and as far as I know Gamebore for one, have stated that all things being relevant with a nitro only proofed gun, ANY choke can be used with standard steel, including full. AA Brown have stated nothing tighter than half, and even then scoring may occur within the choke. However, if you submit that same gun for HP steel proofing, you can still only shoot nothing tighter than half but now there’s no mention of scoring within the choke area! This is the same gun remember, made by the same methods with the same metal; the only difference is it has now been tested to a higher pressure. What’s the point of having it steel shot proofed if there’s nothing gained? Also, you now have a steel shot proofed gun with which AA Brown advise you shoot even standard steel through nothing tighter than half! Is it me? Where is the logic? Not only have they rendered obsolete any tighter choked gun ( unless the alternatives are employed ) including trap guns, but it also means you may as well just shoot HP steel through your nitro only gun ( which I do ) as long as you don’t go tighter than half. Teague incidentally, recommend quarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retromlc Posted November 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2022 The real test will be when they ban plastic cups, I believe they protect the bore from scoring, if they put a std fibre wadd with steel you'll probably start to see damage, I watched a new Perazzi/bywell video and Perazzi now built their guns to take steel at extra full, they have added more metal for the pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 24, 2022 Report Share Posted November 24, 2022 21 minutes ago, retromlc said: The real test will be when they ban plastic cups, I believe they protect the bore from scoring, if they put a std fibre wadd with steel you'll probably start to see damage, I watched a new Perazzi/bywell video and Perazzi now built their guns to take steel at extra full, they have added more metal for the pressure. No one shoots steel with a standard fibre wad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 24, 2022 Report Share Posted November 24, 2022 21 minutes ago, Scully said: ANY choke can be used with standard steel, including full. Any choke can be used - there is no 'rule' to say not. But the Proof Houses (CIP) recommend not to use tighter than half and the gunmakers (such as AA Brown) follow that. You are free to ignore that advice, just as you are free to shoot HP steel through a non "fleur de lis" proved gun. Personally - I tend to follow recommendations and advice from institutions such as the proof house as they have much more knowledge and experience that I do! The fleur de lis higher proof level (as you rightly say) simply tests at a higher pressure. It gives a level of confidence that damage (probably mainly bulges) won't happen. Its really 'horses for courses'. A heavier, stouter build (and perhaps 3" chambered) gun was always intended for higher loads and so pressures. A light game gun, built with minimising weight in mind will be at higher risk of damage. Also - being light, it would probably not be all that pleasant to shoot with HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted November 24, 2022 Report Share Posted November 24, 2022 have a read from this web page may help, we in the U.K. use cartridges to CIP, USA use SAAMI. https://steel-shot.com/cip-saami-regulations-l5-19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robden Posted November 24, 2022 Report Share Posted November 24, 2022 Surely the shot size has a bearing on this? Also what about this pressure malarky? Take a plastic cup, no lid, (like a wad) full of shot and squeeze the sides. What happens? The shot doesn't pierce the sides. Like water, it will take the path of least resistance.....out of the open top. All this reminds me of the 2000 millennium bug scare. On the stroke of midnight 31st December 1999, anything with a date and controlled by computers would go ape**** and shut down. Planes would fall out of the sky etc. People spent fortunes trying to counteract this doomsday scenario. And what happened.....Naff all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robden Posted November 24, 2022 Report Share Posted November 24, 2022 Have there been any "papers" written on this, or is it all just supposition?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 24, 2022 Report Share Posted November 24, 2022 9 minutes ago, Robden said: Have there been any "papers" written on this, or is it all just supposition?? There is a Gun Trades Association 'factsheet' https://www.gwct.org.uk/media/1094678/GTA_factsheet_shootingnonlead_ver102.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.