Lead ban lifted

[Centrepin]

Is this true?

 

[Walker570]

How many years have we been shooting lead shot?  On their evidence there should not be a duck or goose or any birds left.

[Westley]

Ah, you have missed out the fact that lead does not just poison them, it vapourises them too !    🙄

[PeterHenry]

I'm fairly sure this happened a number of years ago.

[scarecrow243]

it did and because steel was damaging barrels

[Robden]

8 hours ago, PeterHenry said:

I'm fairly sure this happened a number of years ago.

Agreed.

[Centrepin]

It was just something I saw in the comments on a YouTube video on wildfowling and wondered about

[TIGHTCHOKE]

• 1992 working group established by the
authorities to «evaluete» the problems with lead
vs steel
• 1998 lead shot where banned for hunting in
wetlands
• 2000 lead shot voluntarily banned on clay pigeon
shooting ranges
• 2015 The Norwegian Parliament repealed the
lead shot ban with the exception for wetlands
and shooting ranges

The processes that lead to the ban for all hunting in 2005 was not open
and met little opposition from the establishment in the hunting and
shooting organizations.
• A group of Norwegian veterinarians started in 2009 a campaign to ban
lead from all ammunition.
• In 2012 the Norwegian Hunters Association (JI) is established with one of
its main goals to have the ban repealed.
• There where forwarded a proposal to repeal the ban in the Parliament in
2014.
• The Ministry of Environment issued a request for data and facts
concerning the health and environmental consequences from the use of
lead 

The group of veterinarians who for years had campaigned for a lead ban
held positions in various public offices who delivered statements to the
Parliament and Ministry of Environment about the health and
environmental consequences from the use of lead shot
• Norwegian Hunters Association (JI) delivered an own report to the
Parliament and the Ministry of Environment about the same theme who
opposed the faulty science presented by the lead ban lobby.
• The Parliament voted in January 2015 over the issue of repealing the
ban. The votes where 76 yes, 16 no and 5 representatives did not vote.
For the hunting and shooting interests a clear victory. The Parliament
found the extreme warnings from the lead ban lobby exaggerated and
not trustworthy.

Our facts show something else:
– More actual assessments conclude with an annual use of 70 tons.
– The Norwegian Army has regularly studied the amount of lead in soil and
creeks at their shooting ranges. They have not found any increased levels of
lead showing that lead leaks out in soil or waterways. One of the ranges has
over 240 tons of lead from ammunition in the soil.
– A Swedish study states that 100 years of hunting with lead shotgun
ammunition will leave only one lead pellet pr. 25m2 in woodlands and pr.
100m2 in mountains. 

[Centrepin]

Thank you, makes more sense than the random ban. Pity someone from BASC couldn't read and inwardly digest this information before selling us out.

 

@Connor O'Gorman

 

Maybe it should be sent to every member of Parliament.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Centrepin
Spelling

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Centrepin said:

Thank you, makes more sense than the random ban. Pity someone from BASC couldn't read and inwardly digest this information before selling us out.

 

@Connor O'Gorman

 

Maybe it should be sent to every member of Parliament.

 

 

 

 

You could send it to BASC. You could also send it to your MP. 

[Centrepin]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

You could send it to BASC. You could also send it to your MP. 

Already in hand, Olivia Blake my MP. 

[Scully]

11 minutes ago, Centrepin said:

Already in hand, Olivia Blake my MP. 

Good. It’s astonishing how many people groan and moan about the ineffectiveness of our shooting organisations, but then do nothing themselves. 

[8 shot]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

Good. It’s astonishing how many people groan and moan about the ineffectiveness of our shooting organisations, but then do nothing themselves. 

But we joined the organisations to speak on OUR behalf.....didn't we 

[Scully]

On 11/12/2022 at 22:37, 8 shot said:

But we joined the organisations to speak on OUR behalf.....didn't we 

Indeed we did. 
However, I wasn’t going to bother replying to this as it’s the default reply each and every time I ask someone who is complaining about the proposed lead ban, licensing of this this that or the other, proposals to ban or limit this that or the other, etc etc etc. 

We were discussing the relevant consultation plus other relevant issues at lunch during our syndicate day a couple of weeks ago, when one gun in particular was quite vocal about the impending lead shot ban, and I asked him if he’d completed it. It was a complete waste of time according to him, so no, he hadn’t filled it in, so I asked the others if they had and was met with much shuffling of feet and sudden interest in their own footwear and each others, and a couple of mumbled ‘that’s what I pay my membership fees for’. So that’s that sorted then. 
Out of 14 guns I was the only one who had filled in the survey. 
We are our own worst enemies; we will bicker and fight and point accusing fingers at one section of shooters who don’t meet with our approval, complain bitterly about one thing and another, then sit back and do nothing. I just don’t get it. It genuinely baffles me. 
Even when BASC was doing it’s best to fight potential legislation after the Cockermouth shootings, when the firearms used were those the vast majority of us use, when BASC asked us all to lobby our MP’s etc, less than 2% of UK shooters could be bothered! 
We get what we deserve. 

[enfieldspares]

44 minutes ago, Scully said:

It was a complete waste of time according to him, so no, he hadn’t filled it in, so I asked the others if they had and was met with much shuffling of feet and sudden interest in their own footwear and each others, and a couple of mumbled ‘that’s what I pay my membership fees for’. So that’s that sorted then. 

Yes. Indeed. Like my friend I've known for fifty years moaning about the Johnson Tory Government. Until I reminded him that he'd voted for Johnson at the last General Election!

[Centrepin]

6 hours ago, Scully said:

 

We are our own worst enemies; we will bicker and fight and point accusing fingers at one section of shooters who don’t meet with our approval, complain bitterly about one thing and another, then sit back and do nothing. I just don’t get it. It genuinely baffles me. 

We get what we deserve. 

 

 

Which is why lead was banned so easily infishing 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Centrepin

[Fellside]

Agree re shooting folk being generally apathetic. In today’s noisy politics, if you don’t shout very loudly, you just don’t get noticed. As Scully pointed out, contacting MPs is extremely important - there’s nothing more convincing than voting pressure! In their PR campaigns MPs are very caring about X, Y and Z, but what they mostly care deeply about is staying employed in a highly paid job with many perks and privileges. 

Re Norway, one of most important part of the shooting community’s victory - was their assertion that steel shot and lead free rifle ammunition caused excessive wounding. It was therefore deemed cruel and their lead ban was reversed mainly on this basis. The bias and spurious origin of the anti lobby’s so called evidence certainly didn’t help. It is interesting that nearly all of the key papers being cited here in England by the HSE are also written by noteworthy anti lobbyists……??!!
It’s getting interesting! 

[scolopax]

Norway is a big country with massive areas of uninhabited wild land, with a very low population and therefore a very low density of hunters.   They also only really shoot wild game which is generally few and far between, it would take a typical Norwegian hunter many years to shoot what we could on a typical good day driven game shooting.  So there is only a fraction of the cartridges shot and over a much much bigger area than what we do in the UK.

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, scolopax said:

Norway is a big country with massive areas of uninhabited wild land, with a very low population and therefore a very low density of hunters.   They also only really shoot wild game which is generally few and far between, it would take a typical Norwegian hunter many years to shoot what we could on a typical good day driven game shooting.  So there is only a fraction of the cartridges shot and over a much much bigger area than what we do in the UK.

None of which changes, that there is no scientific evidence for a ban on Lead

[Old farrier]

3 hours ago, scolopax said:

Norway is a big country with massive areas of uninhabited wild land, with a very low population and therefore a very low density of hunters.   They also only really shoot wild game which is generally few and far between, it would take a typical Norwegian hunter many years to shoot what we could on a typical good day driven game shooting.  So there is only a fraction of the cartridges shot and over a much much bigger area than what we do in the UK.

Also a lot more waterways not to mention a massive forestry industry 

there are many more reasons for them lifting the restrictions on lead 

the main one it seems is safety 

[Fellside]

19 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Also a lot more waterways not to mention a massive forestry industry 

there are many more reasons for them lifting the restrictions on lead 

the main one it seems is safety 

Yes the forestry argument is a reasonable one. The main original argument for bringing back lead was the need for ‘humane kills’. It was this which really gathered momentum at the time. 

P.S There are low lying barley areas, where there is a lot of game and wildfowl shooting also.  

[Fellside]

4 hours ago, scolopax said:

Norway is a big country with massive areas of uninhabited wild land, with a very low population and therefore a very low density of hunters.   They also only really shoot wild game which is generally few and far between, it would take a typical Norwegian hunter many years to shoot what we could on a typical good day driven game shooting.  So there is only a fraction of the cartridges shot and over a much much bigger area than what we do in the UK.

Apparently there’s a lot of wood pigeon decoying pursued in Norway. As we know, there’s some cartridge volume in that kind of shooting (well…on a good day…. 🙂). They have lots of barley fields in the low lying areas. Not heard much about driven game however. 

[scolopax]

8 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Apparently there’s a lot of wood pigeon decoying pursued in Norway. As we know, there’s some cartridge volume in that kind of shooting (well…on a good day…. 🙂). They have lots of barley fields in the low lying areas. Not heard much about driven game however. 

All my colleagues shoot walked up, or hunting as they describe it. Mainly grouse and occasionally black grouse and Capercaillie. I’ve seen pheasants here but I would imagine wild ones. Not heard of them pigeon decoying.

 

I saw a little gun camera clip of a colleague’s last week, he hunted hard for three days and rose 20+ Capercaillie but no shots as all well out of range. Final afternoon a cock bird got up 10 away and flew across him. And in his rush/ panic he missed both shots, all recorded in slo-mo. He was still devastated a month later. 

 They find it hard to comprehend the bags of birds we get.

[Old farrier]

1 hour ago, Fellside said:

Yes the forestry argument is a reasonable one. The main original argument for bringing back lead was the need for ‘humane kills’. It was this which really gathered momentum at the time. 

P.S There are low lying barley areas, where there is a lot of game and wildfowl shooting also.  

Thank you for the informative reply 😊

I think they have a lot more hunting going on than we know about and a strong representative body 👍

[Fellside]

19 minutes ago, scolopax said:

All my colleagues shoot walked up, or hunting as they describe it. Mainly grouse and occasionally black grouse and Capercaillie. I’ve seen pheasants here but I would imagine wild ones. Not heard of them pigeon decoying.

 

I saw a little gun camera clip of a colleague’s last week, he hunted hard for three days and rose 20+ Capercaillie but no shots as all well out of range. Final afternoon a cock bird got up 10 away and flew across him. And in his rush/ panic he missed both shots, all recorded in slo-mo. He was still devastated a month later. 

 They find it hard to comprehend the bags of birds we get.

Yes - familiar with that ‘walked up’ or hunting scene. I friend of mine works in Norway. I gather up shooting magazines for him to take across there. He gives them to his colleagues who ‘hunt’ - and they like to read about our various types of shooting. They do have higher volume shooting though - in the lowland areas. There’s a few YouTube videos of pigeon decoying in their lowland barley areas. I believe they decoy ducks and geese too. On a separate note, it seems like a lovely country. Would like to take a look one day.