Pump action at a Clay ground

[London Best]

26 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

 

How did you shoot with it?

I didn’t want to try it!

[Mullard83]

At Sywell 120 semi auto clay shoot you are catered for full use of the gun with a mixture of pairs & a single or 3 on report targets allowing you to use all 3 shots. Strange thing is though that I enquired about using my pump action, to be told they don`t allow them on the ground. I asked why that was ? As I would use a breech flag etc just as I would if using my semi-auto, but was just told they don1t allow it.

[quentyn]

i have a mossberg 590 (S2) and i often use it at clay grounds - my opinion 

1, unless you are in a competition ( or the grounds prohibit it) so what if you load 3 ?

2, Always load a breach flag between rounds - Tapco ones are the best as you can hook it into your pocket 

3, despite breech flag people ( mainly old men) will complain at you and tell you to carry it barrel up and some will complain ( mainly old men) and tell you to carry it barrel down. 

4, generally a pump will be massively more reliable than a semi auto and will cycle anything ( they also rarely need cleaning:) ) 

In relation to grounds prohibiting it i think that this has something to do with CPSA rules and if the club is affiliated ? 

There is a *lot* of snobbery, expect people to start to question your gun safely and shooting motives. People will make jokes about post offices etc. I also shoot an O/U and you never experience the same issues. Its mainly groups of old men in their 60-70's who seem to shoot in groups of 7+ and take ages on a stand who are the worst. 

regarding loading 3, when i 1st got my pump i had a guy come up to me ( at a ground that has no rules on it) to declare that i shouldn't use 3 as "it gave me an unfair advantage" - he seemed nonplussed when i asked him as to whom i was gaining this advantage over given that we weren't shooting together and there wasnt any competition or results . I dont tend to ever load 3 anymore as i cant be bothered with the sanctimonious comments.  

footnote - some people just like to complain and mainly its grumpy old men who are 60+ and *especially* if they are in groups. 

[London Best]

@quentyn

regarding your point No.3:

surely, just because you have a flag in the breech you don’t believe it is acceptable to carry a gun any other way than barrels up or down?

If you are carrying ‘at the trail’, that is, horizontally, no wonder folk are complaining.

[Gordon R]

quentyn - do you have a problem with age?

You mention older people three times in the one post. However you qualify this by adding "mainly". Does this mean you get the same comments from all age groups?

[TK421]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

quentyn - do you have a problem with age?

You mention older people three times in the one post. However you qualify this by adding "mainly". Does this mean you get the same comments from all age groups?

Let it go Gordon, I gave up on this thread when it derailed a while back… 

people will read what they want and interpret it how they want regardless of how things are written.

 

@Zapp @shaun4860 Mods feel free to close thread 

Edited January 3, 2023 by TK421

[Gordon R]

TK421 - no argument from me. Happy New year.

[TK421]

2 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

TK421 - no argument from me. Happy New year.

You too mate 😉

[Scully]

3 hours ago, quentyn said:

i have a mossberg 590 (S2) and i often use it at clay grounds - my opinion 

1, unless you are in a competition ( or the grounds prohibit it) so what if you load 3 ?

2, Always load a breach flag between rounds - Tapco ones are the best as you can hook it into your pocket 

3, despite breech flag people ( mainly old men) will complain at you and tell you to carry it barrel up and some will complain ( mainly old men) and tell you to carry it barrel down. 

4, generally a pump will be massively more reliable than a semi auto and will cycle anything ( they also rarely need cleaning:) ) 

In relation to grounds prohibiting it i think that this has something to do with CPSA rules and if the club is affiliated ? 

There is a *lot* of snobbery, expect people to start to question your gun safely and shooting motives. People will make jokes about post offices etc. I also shoot an O/U and you never experience the same issues. Its mainly groups of old men in their 60-70's who seem to shoot in groups of 7+ and take ages on a stand who are the worst. 

regarding loading 3, when i 1st got my pump i had a guy come up to me ( at a ground that has no rules on it) to declare that i shouldn't use 3 as "it gave me an unfair advantage" - he seemed nonplussed when i asked him as to whom i was gaining this advantage over given that we weren't shooting together and there wasnt any competition or results . I dont tend to ever load 3 anymore as i cant be bothered with the sanctimonious comments.  

footnote - some people just like to complain and mainly its grumpy old men who are 60+ and *especially* if they are in groups. 

I’m 63 and mate is 62. 🤷‍♂️

[Westley]

Maybe it has something to do with being that much older, we have witnessed many incidents of frightening behaviour during our shooting careers. In my case, it has nothing at all to do with their age,  more that they have been allowed to develop their bad habits unchallenged. 

[marsh man]

Not really into clay shooting so I cannot comment on whether putting in two or three cartridges is the done thing or not on clay grounds , but as far as people using pumps and auto goes , one of the finest and quickest shots I have seen using a pump action was John Bidwell who also run a prestige clay ground , it would be nice to hear his opinion .

Another expert in his day was the late , great Percy Stanburry who once , it was widely reported , shot five Pigeons with five shots before the first one hit the deck , so in the right hands they can be a pleasure to watch , but like any gun they need to be in the right hands .

[quentyn]

4 hours ago, London Best said:

@quentyn

regarding your point No.3:

surely, just because you have a flag in the breech you don’t believe it is acceptable to carry a gun any other way than barrels up or down?

If you are carrying ‘at the trail’, that is, horizontally, no wonder folk are complaining.

no i was making the point that up or down i have been complained at for both advising me that the only safe way was the other way around 

 

personally i mainly carry down at clay grounds 

3 hours ago, Gordon R said:

quentyn - do you have a problem with age?

You mention older people three times in the one post. However you qualify this by adding "mainly". Does this mean you get the same comments from all age groups?

not at all 

 

but when i look back and see the people who have offered unwanted "words of advice" its normally older gentlemen ( statistically there are more males in the sport ) 

[Gordon R]

Quote

but when i look back and see the people who have offered unwanted "words of advice" its normally older gentlemen ( statistically there are more males in the sport ) 

I think you mean wiser gentlemen.

[TK421]

9 hours ago, Gordon R said:

I think you mean wiser gentlemen.

And there in lies the problem, only deemed as wise to those willing to listen. We now live in a time where the majority of young ‘think’ they know more than the older generation. It’s also got a lot too do with why the UK is in so much 💩. Run by soft men with no backbone, yet we live in hard times. ?
zero dialogue exists between left and right, old and young and no middle ground. All driven by Social media brainwashing which has a lot to answer for. Anyway I’m digressing yet again, save that for another thread. 

Edited January 4, 2023 by TK421

[udderlyoffroad]

Ok, boomer 😂

[HantsRob]

3:10 in this. WOW. ok, yes that's a skill, but holy moley.....

 

 

[Westley]

22 hours ago, quentyn said:

no i was making the point that up or down i have been complained at for both advising me that the only safe way was the other way around 

 

personally i mainly carry down at clay grounds 

not at all 

 

but when i look back and see the people who have offered unwanted "words of advice" its normally older gentlemen ( statistically there are more males in the sport ) 

THIS older gentleman uses a gunslip, avoids barrels up or down then  🤔 

[Scully]

9 minutes ago, Westley said:

THIS older gentleman uses a gunslip, avoids barrels up or down then  🤔 

Ah but……do you know how to take that gun out of its slip, and return it to its slip, without sweeping those muzzles about? 😉🙂

[100milesaway]

I really can't  believe some of the comments on some of the post on this thread. I  have shot thousands  and thousands  of clays over the past 30 years and visited most of the clay grounds in the country. I don't think I am aware of any grounds, country fairs, or straw bale shoots that would allow anyone to put more than 2 cartridges in the chamber of a pump or auto so I don't  know where you folks shoot that think it's  ok to do so shoot but I  hope I never have to see it.All the grounds I  attend would swiftly remove anyone doing so

Catamong says it more elequently than me but I  am quite shocked to read the number on here that would find it an acceptable practice.

From Auntie.

[HantsRob]

I find that a little odd as if you ask with a reason to shoot 3 birds with 3 shots L, it isn’t really that unrealistic an ask. If you have a stand with 5 birds, shooting 2 or 3 should make no difference. 
 

I have asked and been given permission at 4 local grounds to shoot 3 shot when I asked. So. I think the best advice is to just ask the site staff rather than saying you believe it is or isn’t allowed at most grounds. Treat every site uniquely and just ask, then follow their rules. 

[100milesaway]

On 30/12/2022 at 14:04, TK421 said:

Whilst out shooting over Christmas at one of the clay grounds I ended up behind a squad of chaps obviously out shooting their new Xmas acquisitions one of which looked like a Hatsan Escort Pump shotgun. Group of 5 or so, after they’d all shot one chap stands back and says let’s give this a go. A few of them crowded the stand whilst they faffed about with this thing then began to shoot it. It seamed to jam up frequently and thus caused no end of more faffing about with the squad crowding the stand trying to sort the issues. By this time there were probably 20 or so waiting to shoot. They continued to faff and shoot and miss pretty much everything he shot at, by the time he’d pumped the next shot in the clays had hit the ground? Didn’t see the point to be honest. I was pretty relaxed about the whole thing to be fair, new toy and all that, but what I started to notice was he was loading 3 cartridges. It was at this point one of the old boys piped up saying he shouldn’t be loading 3 shots at a clay ground. I then rewound in my mind when they were all stood in the stand faffing that the gun was waved about, unbeknownst to me it quite possibly had the 3rd cart in it jammed up. All very sketchy to me. There were a few words exchanged by one of the group to a regular club member (which looked quite heated) and then they went off to another stand to continue there faff about.

what’s the etiquette at clay grounds regarding this. The old boys were quite adament that it’s a big no no to have 3 in a pump/semi  at a clay ground.

I gave it some though and thought it makes sense to only have 2 in the gun, as, well we shoot clays in pairs.

I don’t shoot a semi or pump but I’m quite sure at most grounds I’ve shot I’ve seen a 2 max cartridge rule in guns  

thoughts and experiences guys

 

I would have immediatly gone over to them and told them to only load 2 max and then reported to the ground owner, he is the one that would be shut down if there was an accident,.

From Auntie.

[quentyn]

5 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

I find that a little odd as if you ask with a reason to shoot 3 birds with 3 shots L, it isn’t really that unrealistic an ask. If you have a stand with 5 birds, shooting 2 or 3 should make no difference. 
 

I have asked and been given permission at 4 local grounds to shoot 3 shot when I asked. So. I think the best advice is to just ask the site staff rather than saying you believe it is or isn’t allowed at most grounds. Treat every site uniquely and just ask, then follow their rules. 

indeed if the ground allows it crack on 

if they dont, then dont. Its their grounds and their rules. I just get frustrated when people start trying to enforce their own interpretation of the rules 

[Westley]

12 hours ago, Scully said:

Ah but……do you know how to take that gun out of its slip, and return it to its slip, without sweeping those muzzles about? 😉🙂

Now just where is the fun in that   ?

If we all did that, this Forum would be defunct. Better to ignore poor gun handling at the time and wait until you get home and write about it  !    😁

[Scully]

10 minutes ago, Westley said:

Now just where is the fun in that   ?

If we all did that, this Forum would be defunct. Better to ignore poor gun handling at the time and wait until you get home and write about it  !    😁

👍

[TK421]

9 hours ago, 100milesaway said:

I would have immediatly gone over to them and told them to only load 2 max and then reported to the ground owner, he is the one that would be shut down if there was an accident,.

From Auntie.

I didn’t really want to add anything more to this thread. As you can see from my post count, since joining in 2016 I’ve only posted just over 300, others are far more ‘involved’ plus the thread for me lost its way and derailed some time back, but there is more to the story…

I bumped into a few shooters over at Hodnet ,  whilst catching up and over the  usual pleasantries we got to talking about these lads. On that particular day I only met them on one stand, and avoided them on another stand whilst shooting, so never got to see what else they got up to on that day. Unbeknown to me they had further run ins with other club members and eventually the club owner who did indeed ask them to leave the ground for failure to observe club rules and for lack of demonstrating gun safety, after being asked by grounds staff and other members. 
Im quite an easy going bloke, I was at that ground on that particular day just for dedicated practice, in particular drilling in pre shot routines, so was really trying to stay in my own lane and more importantly my own head space. On the stand I witnessed what I mentioned, I wasn’t front line to the stand, but I did witness an exchange or words with them. I now know that the exchange of words started off as offering advice by another shooter from another squad, to which the reply was ‘were ok grandad we know what we’re doing’ more words were exchanged and things obviously escalated a little more. The chap that approached the squad offering nothing more than helpful advice has without doubt shot longer than most in that squad had been alive (guys over 70 years old I was told and a AA in his prime) he’s a club and circuit regular and a nice friendly and extremely knowledgeable bloke, he shoots in a squad of say 5 or 6, all similar age, all very friendly bunch. We all know them and I’m sure most clubs have them, I always take time to chat to these old timers as they have heaps of experience in the game and also have loads of great stories. I’m also always f k n  respectful. I enjoy this sport for many reasons, one being the family you become part of and the friends you make along the way. Now I didn’t know this at the time, I just thought there was some friendly banter going on but this wasn’t the case. More went on, snide comments made to other club members from these lads which continued around the ground with other shooters as well until it was brought to the clubs attention. The owner informed them of the club rules allowing 2 cartridges max in the gun etc. they stated “we’ve only been shooting 2, but what’s the problem anyway” what they didn’t realise is they were speaking to the club owner, I’m told they just thought he was one of the ground staff. The owner stated the rules again and pulled back and let them continue to shoot on, at which point the blatantly loaded 3 in and continued to lark about.  At this point the squad was asked to leave with the main culprit being asked to not return to the club! There was more to the story, involving lots of swearing from these lads and just a general lack of respect (one lad in particular) but you get the general gist of things. It was also mentioned that they purposely shot at a trap. 

When I’m out shooting to be fair especially when I’m working on the mental side of my shooting the last thing I want to get involved in is this kind of BS, don’t get me wrong I will if I have to buy I’d rather not given the choice. 

Think this thread has run its course to be fair, it’s a typical scenario of ‘you had to be there’ I’m sure most of you sensible people would have seen and reacted the same. For whatever reason It’s easy to pick apart someone else’s story and twist the narrative into something else, which is fine, personally I’m not interested in that nor do I need the post count. 
 

@Zapp

@shaun4860 mods please feel free to close the thread. 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by TK421